Horns By Ai Driver Poll... Should They Toot? An Immersion Question.

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by paul.pavlinovich, Aug 12, 2021.

?
  1. Yes

    10 vote(s)
    20.8%
  2. Yes, but I prefer them to follow the complex rules

    33 vote(s)
    68.8%
  3. No

    5 vote(s)
    10.4%
  4. Other - tell us in the comments

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    Would it help with immersion if all the AI trains followed a very simple protocol and always gave a brief toot just before moving from standstill and always gave a long toot as they approach level crossings?

    Background: I've been thinking about horns for a while, AI drivers never toot the horn. I've asked about it on streams on the odd occasion and got back the answer from TrainSim-Matt that its something they'd like to do but are concerned how hard it would be to follow all the whistle codes local to the railway. These codes can be quite complex. Then Haverknol posted in another thread about AI horns and it got me thinking again....

    Paul
     
  2. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    I voted for yes with complex rules. Speaking for myself, I can live with no AI horns as something that‘s not simulated. Hearing incorrect horn behaviour from every AI train would pull me out of immersion a lot harder than no AI horns.

    On your simplified horn protocol: Even that would still need examination on a route per route basis. The German routes are prototypical right now, for example. No horn at level crossings and no horn when starting to move. I can‘t speak with confidence about UK routes, that‘s for someone else to comment on.

    So unfortunately, no horn is better than wrong horn in my book.
     
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  3. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    Cool, thanks for the detailed response mate, it seems you're not alone based on the early votes :).

    Paul
     
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  4. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    It would appear so :)
    This threat is a great idea, Paul. I‘m very curious to see what other people think :D
     
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  5. Tigert1966

    Tigert1966 Well-Known Member

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    As I mainly play German and British routes then I can live without AI horns.

    I can appreciate for American routes the horn rules are a lot more complex and it could really add something. As an extension maybe it could reward the player if they use the correct horn sequence.

    So I say add it if enough people want it.
     
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  6. MrSouthernDriver

    MrSouthernDriver Well-Known Member

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    I think they should honk horns at the W boards for added realism, for example on the st Ives branch which is coming to west Cornwall local, just before you enter St Erth there is a W board and in order to let the passengers know that the train is coming the driver has to honk the low tone horn Becuase the st Ives branch gets very very busy in the summer and it’s to remind people to stand behind the yellow line, it would be a pretty nice feature
     
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  7. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    Horns by the rules. Yes. All the way.
     
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  8. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Horns should "play by the rules", and player drivers should be marked down if they don't follow them too...

    Agree with Lamplight that at most points in the UK the trains do NOT use the horn when moving off but then our rules on track crossing may be different. The only place I know where trains almost always honk horns before moving is in depots and yards, because there may be operatives there.

    One addition to this would be that if DTG implement lineside dioramas with engineer workings, the AI should also sound their horn before reaching them (a requirement in the UK driver's rule book)
     
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  9. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    If they're going to do it, they should do it following the rules, as far as I'm concerned anyway :)

    That means different rules for different routes and possibly even different trains, more or less complex. What starts out as "just make the horn go toot" suddenly becomes a whole AI subsystem on its own :)
     
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  10. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Personally I'd be happy with "tied to the route" otherwise you'd have american locos using their horn at UK road crossings which wouldn't be right, but then a 465 SHOULD use it's horn if driven on the US systems...
    So then it comes down to track markers and trigger instructions I guess
     
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  11. Haverknol

    Haverknol Member

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    A 465 on a US route is not realistic anyway, so I don't really think that that would matter so much. Whatever is the easiest to implement would do for me.
     
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  12. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    But there are people who would expect that a system implemented would be robust enough to cope with "out of the ordinary" occurrences... hence mentioning it
     
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  13. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    People really have spoken loud and clear on this poll!

    So far 68% yes by the rules and 20% yes simple approach.

    Thanks for voting folks. I'll leave it open - if it gets enough attention perhaps we might just get that new AI Horn system TrainSim-Matt one day :). Interestingly, its probably not that hard to do crossings, have a trigger connected to the whistle board on the route that triggers the loco on the front to blow its horn following the local convention for that route, because you should always whistle for a whistle board except during quiet times if that applies to that route. The other horn usage is harder.

    btw. Its not always two long, one short and one long for 14L - when the crossings are close together they blow continuously. When I lived in Oakland CA, I could hear them blow all the way through downtown as they approached and left Jack London Square.

    Australia for what its worth is nearly universal (although of course there are variations)
    Moving off from a stand still - one toot
    Moving backwards - three toots
    Level crossings without gates - usually one at the whistle board then one more at the crossing
    Level crossings with gates - one toot at the crossing

    Paul
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2021
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  14. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    All forms part of the route investigation for me. If they know they're building a certain route (and obviously put out on the forum that they're making it) then they can ask questions like, what PIS is there, what horn rules, when are quiet times etc etc
    I'm sure the community would shovel in their feedback (and hopefully get a better more rounded outcome than some of the decisions made by DTG of late)
     

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