Horseshoe Curve Key Things I'd Want To See

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by paul.pavlinovich, Sep 8, 2021.

  1. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    Very excited to see Horseshoe Curve annouced today. I have a wishlist of course TrainSim-Matt

    The multi track is bidirectional and trains often run in parallel in the same direction with one passing the other. Seeing this in game would be critical to success in my book.

    There are helper engines that attach to the back before the hill and then come off later. I'd want AI and player driveable helpers in both services and scenarios.

    There's a public viewing area with a locomotive that's a must since it's a famous railfan point.

    There's loads of different freight through here mostly NS hauled so a selection of black liveried locomotives is essential. There's also Amtrak so I'd want to see that.

    I'd be happy with modern era or something earlier... Could be a great candidate for a modern and older variant like Diesel Legends.

    Its busy for Freight with trains run every half hour or so and a daily Amtrak in each direction.

    There is a funiculur at the public viewing point, it would be essential to include and amazing if it worked and you could ride it.

    The scenery is not dissimilar to Clinchfield so you've already got most of the assets but given the nature of the scenery getting the trees and seasons right will be essential since there's not a hell of a lot else to look at. I found a good video (not mine) showing typical operations and seasons at

     
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  2. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Skyhook Games are making thus route.
     
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  3. sergio volodstok

    sergio volodstok Active Member

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    I think the SD40E should really be represented on this route, too, since they have been the primary helper power for many years now and are a very common sight on the west slope. Having no SD40Es on this route would feel very unrealistic, therefore I hope Dovetail/Skyhook will consider putting them on this route, too.
     
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  4. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    If there is one thing that could be interesting for Skyhook to add, would be the inclusion of LHF operations as a rare occurrence. Norfolk Southern, unlike other Class 1 railroads, order their mainline diesels with ditchlights on the rear of the locomotive as well. And in some rare cases, the crew (as much to their demise) will have to run the loco with the rear facing forward.


    Would be a massive pain sight wise from the cab, but would be something that would add to operational difficulty.
    8932.1432261723.jpg 02f990b7bf1bd0322e7be5737fef817a.jpg 8261.1224445850.jpg
     
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  5. fanta1682002

    fanta1682002 Well-Known Member

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    Skyhook Games
     
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  6. Krazy

    Krazy Well-Known Member

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    I’m quite curious about the viewing area. There’s a GP9 right there that’s quite hard to miss. So if this area were to be modeled (would be weird to not model it, it’s not that far from the actual curve), then Skyhook would either have to:
    - Simply not have the locomotive display
    - Create a brand new GP9 model that can’t even be driven on the route

    Although I’m sure it wouldn’t be THAT bad if they didn’t have a locomotive there, as I’d personally care more about the spot itself, for a nice railfan view. I care even more so about the actual freight trains themselves.
     
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  7. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    They don't need to make a high detailed model, just one good enough to look correct.
    9a1f5a51a5a11319b5fe74740ae8f17a.jpg

    Just like the Cabooses on SPG. But completely omitting it from the route could be a problem, like the missing station from the Boston Providence route. Skyhook could also put the GP9 as a Mastery reward as well.
     
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  8. Krazy

    Krazy Well-Known Member

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    That’s fair, I don’t know why I thought it would have to be a quality model. I’m guessing it would be fine to take a Train Simulator GP9, make it look a bit nicer, and boom. Big selling point for the route :)
     
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  9. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    Yep indeed a static model doesn't take much effort. No harder than a lamp post :)
     
  10. cyrill.kroonstuiver

    cyrill.kroonstuiver Well-Known Member

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    Although I'll admit I'm not too fond of this route as it's far too close and similar to Sand Patch Grade, being literally just 30 miles north.
    One thing this route does have which could be utilized as something I'd be very interested in is that there's from what I saw at least 3 operational stations that are actually in use in real time, even though they look terribly maintained.
    Making an eventual DLC for one of those heavier Amtrak locomotives like the GE Genesis pulling Boston - Providence's Amfleet coaches could enable some occasional passenger trains.

    The one thing I'm missing in American routes so far other than the Acela is the heavy loc with some of those longer passenger coaches going through the more desolate areas like mountain passes where the station is practically just a marked area on the ground, and with some effort this route could at least bring that a little bit.
     
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  11. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    You mean P42DC P40DC or the Siemens Charger 300s ALC-42 for Pennsylvanian Train. Norfolk Southern also has AC4400CW 4000s for this route. Base model for them is Cane Creek Union Pacific AC4400CW or Sand Patch Grade AC4400CW.
     
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  12. cyrill.kroonstuiver

    cyrill.kroonstuiver Well-Known Member

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    Exactly, P42DC is the one I had in mind when I looked at pictures of what passenger services do appear in the real world route.
    Though my favorite choice for the type of route I described would be something like this.[​IMG]

    I don't know if Norfolk Southern does any form of passenger services which could accommodate this route if they made a passenger coach though, I don't believe I've ever heard about that, though I could be wrong.
     
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  13. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    There was the F7's for their OCS trains, not technically a passenger train, just whenever the higher ups want to tour their system...
    20140617-203211-73931355.jpg

    Norfolk Southern sadly sold the F7's, later replacing them with SD60Es.
    maxresdefault.jpg

    But Amtrak's Pennsylvanian I believe is the only passenger train that operates over HSC IIRC.
    9510092084_15dec84819_b.jpg
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2021
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  14. cyrill.kroonstuiver

    cyrill.kroonstuiver Well-Known Member

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    I see
    Well, the change in locomotive is fine, although I do think the F7 is indeed prettier, and if they add these coaches in with a few services, even if they're just as you said "management rail touring services" instead of actual passenger services, it would change my opinion somewhat, and it might actually get me to buy this route, whereas currently I'm in no mood to buy either one of the American Roadmap announcements.
    I highly doubt they would include these coaches though, as I'm already seeing 3 different kinds of coaches attached even glancing at it, and for a highly limited pair of services, probably just one back and forth as some "rail festival special", that would probably be too much work for too little playable content.
     
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  15. cyrill.kroonstuiver

    cyrill.kroonstuiver Well-Known Member

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    On the other hand, if they just take Boston Providence's Amfleet cars if DTG allows it, they could just make that P42DC as an add-on later on for those services which would effectively mean they only need to make 1 locomotive for multiple actual services.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2021
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  16. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    The Pennsylvanian also needs Amfleet IIs. We have Amfleet Is in Boston.
     
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  17. cyrill.kroonstuiver

    cyrill.kroonstuiver Well-Known Member

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    True, it'd be nice if they did it right and put the right Amfleet cars in there than.
    Then again, they've been using low door Dostos anywhere and everywhere too despite the need for high door ones, soooo:)
     
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  18. mariner86

    mariner86 Active Member

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    They’ve run various amfleet, even horizon and heritage equipment on that consist over the years. The Three Rivers would be cool too as it was essentially an Amtrak freight train usually 4 coaches with a mix of amfleet and horizon, usually a horizon lounge. Sometimes a view liner sleeper. The interesting thing about it is usually it had a dozen or so express boxcars on the head end, and the same plus road-railers on the rear. Depending on what day you caught it either two or three locomotives.
     
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  19. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    I've never seen Horizons on the Pennsylvanian.
     
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  20. EpilepticWeasel

    EpilepticWeasel Member

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    I'm a little disappointed that this route is only going to Johnstown. Very excited for it none the less but for a US freight route this is going to be very short only about 37 miles. Seeing how long Cane Creek sat idle on the roadmap and the pretty good quality of that build it would have been cool to see Skyhook take that same amount of time or more and build from Altoona all the way to at least Latrobe (74 miles), maybe even Greensburg (82 miles). This would have given an extra 1 or 2 Amtrak stations respectively for the Pennsylvanian and give a more respectable distance to run those big long freight trains. There is also a rail served coal power plant in between Johnstown and Latrobe that would have been huge to see in the game and added a lot of unique playable services or scenarios. This route really should come with the Amtrak P42 since the Amfleets are already built. Very excited for the ES44AC but getting the GP38 as a second loco is recycled blah, only one new loco is a little disappointing. If we are just going to keep recycle American freight locomotives every time, at least recycle the SD40 of the AC44 again so we have a second road diesel, and for goodness sakes please do not reuse that same stupid horn.

    We keep hearing about better technology for building longer routes but then hear "well our business model of only building short routes works great." Excited for the route but it feels like a little bit of a let down with the short length and lack of locomotive diversity.
     
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  21. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Norfolk & Western and Southern both had a tradition of running long hood forward.
     
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  22. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Not bloody likely. Skyhook are going to make a whole new loco (Siemens Charger) just for 2 trains per day?
     
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  23. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    It would be a P42.
     
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  24. steamfan#1309

    steamfan#1309 Active Member

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    What if for the last part of the mastery it replaces the GP9 with a STATIC display of a k-4 Pacific
     
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  25. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    You take joy in negativity... just because its two services per day in reality doesn't mean it has to be two in game. Its imaginary it could be as many or as few as we want. Just remember Skyhook built Cane Creek and that has one service per week each way in reality but its got plenty of services to play every day.
     
  26. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    I got onto Skyhook via their contact-us page with a link to this post and got a response that they will monitor this thread so keep up the good suggestions folks - the more we ask for stuff the more chances we've got.
     
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  27. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Again, it would require building a whole locomotive that doesn't exist in TSW.
     
  28. rodgers.jayshawn4848

    rodgers.jayshawn4848 Active Member

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    Here’s my suggestion for this route. As a DLC, we should get SD70ACe’s both horsehead and heritage liveries. Other DLCs can be C44-9Ws, C40-9s, SD40E’s(Mainly as they’re helper units), SD60Es, ET44ACs, and ES40/44DCs.
     
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  29. EpilepticWeasel

    EpilepticWeasel Member

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    So did every locomotive before it was in the game.... Regardless of the fact that there would only be two real life services the locomotive would be available for anyone to use in scenario planner or off the rails, so the potential for people to use and enjoy it is immense. There are a lot of people who would really like to see the P42 in game.
     
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  30. sergio volodstok

    sergio volodstok Active Member

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    The ES44AC is nice but I really would like to have an SD40E on this route. Also I think an extension to around 50 miles would be adequate and should be seriously considered by Skyhook.
     
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  31. brodeyness4

    brodeyness4 Member

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    I would love to replace the GP38-2 with the SD40E (used for helper services), and then either the SD70ACe, or D9-44CW (A DC version of the AC4400CW)... 2 road locomotives, along with the SD40E for helper and yard work would be great! Either I would like these locomotives, or extending the line to Latrobe. Or maybe both! Anyways, I am looking forward to this route, as long as there is not the same sounds!
     
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  32. jedi247

    jedi247 Well-Known Member

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    I still wanted a Conrail or PRR version. Perhaps a couple of DLCs could give players PRR or Conrail locos. Also, the Conrail and PRR Heritage ES44ACs should be included as well as Admiral Cab and High-Nose SD40-2s. Also, add the SD70ACUs as DLC.
     
  33. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    Would it be the first route to bring in a new locomotive? If there is no desire or budget to bring in a new one then they could just sacrifice some realism and reskin one of the FP40 either from Peninsula Corridor or Boston with much less work. Or they could add in scenarios where the regular Amtrak locomotive has broken down and an NS loco will be hauling the train. I would think having both freight and passenger on this route as features would help it sell so if it fit the design goals I would certainly have both.
     
  34. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

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    DTG & Skyhook have more than enough locos on their table they could add to Horseshoe Curve with just NS alone. There's a lot of unique oddballs and rebuilds the NS have done that could easily fuel probably half a dozen DLCs. And you could also tap into the PRR as well, which also has just as many weird and unique engines that could be done, if not more. And while there isn't so much unique to them you could also potentially tap into Conrail and Penn Central depending on what the situations are legal with those. Making a Conrail timetable featuring the SD80MAC wouldn't be a bad idea for example.

    Point being there's all sorts of content that could be done for Horseshoe without ever factoring in Amtrak. And there's many other routes that could be done which would be just as good, if not better homes for types like the P42 and Charger. For example even if we're so insistent on getting a P42 DLC right now why do it for Horseshoe over Sand Patch? Both are pretty much equally suited for it, and at least the latter's already got a solid customer base There's no real compelling reason for making a P42 for this route in particular, especially compared to types like the SD40E, or the SD70ACu.
     
  35. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    I agree but the F7 will use CSX Clinchfield RR base model reskinned to Norfolk Southern to keep in line with the American Freight railroad practice order the same locomotive but specifications and make those multiple-unit compatible.
     
  36. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    Make it for one and it slots into the others. Bring the Amtrak to everything :)
     
  37. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    I still think for at least the GE P42DC, is for it to feature in its own route where it would be used more that for a handful of services, and have it be layerable into PC,SPG, BS, and HSC with appropriate rolling stock (Either Superliners or Amfleets). Or at least have it as a stand alone loco DLC for multiple routes.
     
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  38. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    There's a difference between bringing in a new locomotive which is used for the bulk of the player services (ICE 3M and Talent 2 on SKA), and developing a whole new loco for just 2 trains per day. Now, in the distant future after DTG have produced an Amtrak diesel for another route where it is the star, then it might be layered into this for those two tpd, but they aren't going to do something with such a minuscule return on investment as building a Charger for HSC.
     
  39. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    P42, not a Charger
     
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  40. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    It isn't a DTG route its Skyhook. Why stifle an idea because you think they might not do it - isn't it better to lobby for an idea so people think its wanted? Granted two trains per day isn't a lot but I reiterate that Cane Creek had one service per week and Skyhook still built it. The number of services doesn't have to be realistic - we could have Amtrak as every second service - this would make some people happy and some not. It may on the surface seem to not make economic sense but there are strong passenger fans who don't like freight, they might be more likely to buy a route that featured freight and passenger than one that was freight alone. If Amtrak were to appear in this route you don't have to drive it, that is your choice, but perhaps consider that other people might want something different to you.
     
  41. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

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    There's ways certainly that DTG could convince me to want the P42 for a route like Horseshoe. If it was say a part of a two or three pack of locos where you'd get alongside say the SD70ACu and SD40E then absolutely I'd grab it. If it was a part of a free update for the route I'd also be happy. However DTG have done neither of those in the past, and those are the only ways I'd be interested in it in that case. A DLC where it's the sole focus would be a nonstarter for me with how limited it's used in real life. Considering how people have criticized addons like the Class 20 and Cane Creek for being lacking in content I don't believe I'm the only one in that boat. Yes some people would be happy with it, but I don't think enough would be happy with it to make it preform exceptionally well compared to others route that could come along later that would fit it better.

    Also if we insist that we need some sort of passenger content for it I'd push way more for a PRR era pack for this route, or maybe even a backdated version of the route. They used to operate a ton of passenger train over the curve, especially during WW2. Would be just as good as a P42 pack, if not better considering how famous the PRR was and still is, and would have more novelty factor considering it would be the first depiction of old school passenger service in TSW. Could also be a good home for some steam locomotives if they put in all the facilities needed for them.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2021
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  42. mariner86

    mariner86 Active Member

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    Would have been late 90s early 00s, right around the time they went from phase III to IV. It was when they originated in Chicago that it seemed to have a hodgepodge of different equipment and different paint schemes. Admittedly the Pennsylvanian was usually a mix of Amfleets but I had seen a horizon car or two on it as well. The Three Rivers almost was always a mix of Horizons and Amfleets.

     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2021
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  43. mariner86

    mariner86 Active Member

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    Great Idea, it doesn’t necessarily even need to be steam in PRR days, just sayin.
     
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  44. mariner86

    mariner86 Active Member

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    Just Saying if they add the SD80MAC their is a 5 part training series on YouTube…
     
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  45. mariner86

    mariner86 Active Member

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    Many people on here have been mentioning passenger trains as well, in thinking about it in the late 1990s through late 00’s they would hold an Altoona railfest weekend and operate several excursions through the day. They ran constantly every couple hours all day long plus the regular Amtrak service. They would depart Altoona pass through the Gallitzin tunnel, then run the inside of the wye which would loop them onto the Eastbound Main through the new portage tunnel, around the curve then they would turn the train at Juniata between runs. One year I was there and it was Amtrak equipment, one year it was MARC equipment, and one year it was restored PRR E8s owned by the Juniata terminal railroad. In my opinion the late 90s early 00s is the coolest time to set this route. NS, Conrail, and different generations of Amtrak equipment all operating regularly. Could have an entire days timetable of excursions from Altoona and back. Mix them in with normal freight traffic and could be lots of fun!

     
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  46. Blartthaniel42

    Blartthaniel42 Well-Known Member

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    I don't know if this has been said but please use different horn sounds. I'm tired of the same default horn sound used for almost every American freight locomotive. Since I play on pc, I know I can get mods. But I did have this game on xbox were that wasn't an option and it's really annoying. A K5HL for the ES44DC and a Leslie RS3L or P5 for the GP38-2 would be really cool. I just don't want to hear the same horn that's used in Sand Patch, Clintchfield, and Cane Creek.
     
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  47. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    They made new ones for the Boston locos. They engaged someone from outside to do the sound.
     
  48. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    If we are waiting on a route where the P42AC is the star loco of the route we will be waiting a very long time, even the empire service route only has 8 TPD with a P42AC at the head between Niagara Falls & Albany.

    I guess we could hope for a route radiating out of Albany itself which if you include the P32DC then we would get a reasonable timetable. But the problem with Albany is where would you go to? Southbound along the Hudson River youd only get to Rhinecliff (53 miles) with just 1 intermeddiate station, westbound is no better with just Schenectady (16 miles) & then Amsterdam 36 miles but after that the next station is 96 miles from Albany, far too long a run for TSW2.

    I guess you could head north to Fort Edward-Glens Falls (56 miles from Albany) which would give you 6TPD behind a P42 and give you 2 intermeddiate stations on route. This line is under CP so I assume licenses in place but Ive no idea what the level of frieght is on this route or what locos they run. Perhaps someone more knowledgable on this line could post in ths suggestion forum.

    Sorry went very off topic here - but back to my original point Amtrak P42s are needed in the game but its one of those locos which DTG will need to break their mould for loco DLCs and have a couple of services here and there over a number of different DLC.
     
  49. Blartthaniel42

    Blartthaniel42 Well-Known Member

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    This does give me a lot of hope. But one thing to keep in mind is that DTG were the ones who developed the Boston Sprinter route, Skyhook is the one in charge here. Cane Creek has been the only release by them and it uses that default horn. I'm hoping that this was because those locos are just copy and pasted from SPG or they simply had a lack of resources to make new ones.
     
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  50. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    The Empire Service has 18 tpd (9 train pairs) between NYC and Niagara Falls. The Capitol Corridor (CA) route runs 32 tpd between Sacramento and San Jose via Oakland. The Keystone Service NYC-Philly-Harrisburg runs 26 tpd. All of these use P40 or P42 Genesis I or the dual-mode P32-DM Genesis II. In the near future many of these will be replaced by Siemens ACS-42 Chargers.
     

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