How Long Is Too Long To Wait For A Path ?

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by Daytona, Sep 30, 2021.

Tags:
?
  1. 0 mins

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. 1 min

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. 2 mins

    2.2%
  4. 3 mins

    7.6%
  5. 4 mins

    2.2%
  6. 5 mins

    13.0%
  7. 6 mins

    2.2%
  8. 7 mins

    2.2%
  9. 8 mins

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. 9 mins

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  11. 10 mins

    5.4%
  12. 20 mins

    4.3%
  13. 40 mins

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  14. Whatever's realistic

    60.9%
  1. Daytona

    Daytona Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2018
    Messages:
    154
    Likes Received:
    99
    Just watched Matts stream with a 7 minute wait for an ICE to pass, which set me wondering how long is too long for a pathing wait in TSW ? I realise that there are long waits in reality but I've no interest in replicating that in a sim.

    +1:24:40 in -


    I wonder if the 7 minute wait was a pathing software issue as at 200 kph it's booked 23km ahead which is a tad excessive, even for an ICE.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2021
    • Like Like x 2
  2. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2019
    Messages:
    2,028
    Likes Received:
    2,986
    I've voted for 20 minutes, but my answer is different.

    A train needs to remain stopped at a red light as long as it's realistic, in case the wait is longer than 10/15m it could be wiser to split the journey in 2 different services, if someone can be bothered to wait can just select "return to freemode" or go back to the menu.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    6,586
    Likes Received:
    6,016
    I voted whatever's realistic, but that comes with the caveat that 7 mins waiting on a regional is NOT realistic... So if there's a stop like that then DTG need to look at the pathing, especially of the IC
    I can understand that trains would be "booking lines ahead", but 20 odd Km is a bit excessive, and the Regio wouldn't have been stood there for that long

    A freight sat in a siding for 18 minutes? That's realistic...
     
    • Like Like x 3
  4. AhhCaffeine

    AhhCaffeine Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2021
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    32
    I wouldn't want to have the "real" wait replicated in the sim, because in real life you would actually see something and could see other trains passing by, shunting, doing whatever and when you see this it might actually make "sense" for you to wait 10 minutes or more. In the sim however, you're just sitting in an empty yard for 5 minutes, nothing to see and then one train passing by which immediately triggers the green light, making you wonder why you weren't just routed around or let into the station earlier before said train passes rather than having to sit in the empty yard with 5 other tracks to pass that train without waiting. One problem might also just be that the signaller isn't too complex yet to handle the amount of trains that would make it realistic to wait 10 minutes, because sitting infront of a red signal with no blocked track or something just because "it's realistic" would bore me pretty fast.
    ^This I agree tho
     
    • Like Like x 3
  5. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    6,586
    Likes Received:
    6,016
    My only response to this would be that sometimes it is reasonable to have a train waiting for a few minutes (maybe not ten but a few) when there are delays at a really busy station. I wouldn't be too worried sitting on Grosvenor rise just outside Victoria waiting for a specific platform for example, but I would be expecting to see a fair few trains moving around me, and all platforms full of trains rather than ten empty platforms and me waiting for that one train to move.

    We know the signaller is "dynamic" only in that it works on a first come first served basis rather than being able to route around or between platforms, so you're not going to see it sending you to platform 10 rather than 8 just because platform 8 is what the timetable says.

    I'm sure it's a technical nightmare for DTG to work out how to do this but I do wonder if nowadays almost all of this is done by computers in real life with quite little being done by humans at the point of actually changing which platforms or approach tracks individual trains run on
     
    • Like Like x 2
  6. grob-e

    grob-e Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2020
    Messages:
    234
    Likes Received:
    581
    I don't think there was a Software issue. He arrived at the Signal by the time, he should have been at Pasing, while this Signal is 11km before Pasing. By being hopelessly late, you can't expect to have all green signals, and this seems realistic to me.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  7. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2019
    Messages:
    1,490
    Likes Received:
    1,809
    I waited a year for freight exchange scenario to work so 7 mins is a doddle
     
    • Like Like x 2
  8. Jasonic

    Jasonic Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    44
    In the UK as a Signaller we usually let the driver know if they are going to be waiting for a while, unless we are dealing with an incident and it might be a while to find the time to speak to the driver, or we can put a general call out on the GSMR advising of problems.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2021
    • Like Like x 3
  9. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2021
    Messages:
    2,161
    Likes Received:
    4,022
    Or perhaps it was because Matt was hopeless at even being close to "On Time".
     
  10. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2019
    Messages:
    1,689
    Likes Received:
    2,474
    If I'm being paid to sit in a train at a red light, then whatever - you're the boss. If I'm having to find something else to do while my Playstation game is disrespecting my time, that's a whole different kettle of fish.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  11. cwf.green

    cwf.green Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2019
    Messages:
    460
    Likes Received:
    651
    A "pro" tip for those that don't want to wait 10+ minutes but at the same time want realistic waiting times: when you're stopped waiting for the red signal, end the service and then spawn "on foot" at the station right before you know the signal turns green. Then you can just board the locomotive and maybe change a few switches (like turning on safety systems) and you're ready to go when the signal turns green again. This way you've only waited at most 5 minutes.

    If you don't know when the signal turns green again you could spawn in steps of 5 minutes and notice when the train departs by itself (as AI). This way of course takes a bit longer time (especially if your loading times are long) but you've still saved some waiting time.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2020
    Messages:
    3,763
    Likes Received:
    7,331
    I’ve voted for realistic timescales providing they are ‘realistic’ and not a mistake, error or bug.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  13. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    1,821
    Likes Received:
    3,328
    I'll always go with whatever's realistic, but some timetables, like Boston, are themselves unrealistic so the wait times at red lights are longer than they should be.
    If it's a freight route, all bets are off.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  14. cwf.green

    cwf.green Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2019
    Messages:
    460
    Likes Received:
    651
    You're video lacks a timestamp and the length of the video is over 3 hours long, i.e. most people won't sift through that. You can redirect people that click the link by adding:

    &t=xxhyymzzs

    where xx = hour, yy = minute, zz = second. Single digit hours/minutes/seconds can be written by a single digit.
    Another way is tp simply replace the hhmmss by the total number of seconds.
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 2
  15. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2018
    Messages:
    1,322
    Likes Received:
    2,137
    I've voted for 3 minutes. That's about the time I think is OK before stuff gets boring.
     
  16. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    1,821
    Likes Received:
    3,328
    Ooh, that's no time at all! Better not be a freight train engineer! :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Daytona

    Daytona Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2018
    Messages:
    154
    Likes Received:
    99
    Argh! thanks cwf.green, but not guilty, as I used the Start from feature from YT share, but the forum software's MEDIA code got a bit clever and stripped it off -
    Code:
    This -
    https://youtu.be/wWo9BSE0vh8?t=5080
    
    turns into this -
    [MEDIA=youtube]wWo9BSE0vh8[/MEDIA]
    
     
  18. lcyrrjp

    lcyrrjp Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2019
    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    131
    It varies from country to country, and also within countries. In the UK, on some routes (mostly minor routes) it’s done entirely manually by a signaller, while on other routes it’s done mainly by software (a system called ARS - Automatic Route Setting) but the Signaller can and will intervene if he/she wants something different to happen to what ARS is doing. ARS is far from perfect and does some odd stuff. One of the skills of a signaller in those boxes where it’s in use is to predict when ARS is about to do something odd, and intervene.

    There are games available (cheaply) which simulate ARS well so it does puzzle me a little why TSW2’s dispatcher is so basic, but I have no idea from an IT perspective of the complexities of applying to a Driver simulator the concepts enshrined in a signalling simulator.
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  19. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    5,235
    Likes Received:
    7,489
    Yes, for whatever reason DTG forum software doesn't recognize "start at timestamp" instructions.
     
  20. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    6,586
    Likes Received:
    6,016
    I've played a lot of rail route, and understand the concept of auto and manual signalling, but same as you don't know how DTG would integrate something like that into the dispatcher
    From a programming perspective it seems simple enough in a standalone form, but obviously then everything in world has to align with the program mapped out by the dispatcher and that's a lot harder (Especially when you throw in that a player may speed or drive REALLY slowly just to see what happens and the last thing we want is it to collapse in a heap)
     
    • Like Like x 1

Share This Page