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How Removing The Meißen And Dresden Flughafen Branches Is Going To Hurt Bahnstrecke Riesa-dresden

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by CrazyDash, Jul 21, 2021.

  1. CrazyDash

    CrazyDash Well-Known Member

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    (A map is below this forum post for reference to what I am talking about)

    As some of you may know, DTG has announced that Bahnstrecke Riesa-Dresden is being shortened. They are removing the Meißen and Dresden Flughafen branches from the route. This is deeply disappointing to hear. Now I understand DTG probably did this so that the route could release sooner than later, but removing these two branches is really gonna hurt the route in terms of the services you will be doing on the route. First off, removing these branches could mean 2 things for the services that were supposed to use these branches. 1. The services will be shortened, or 2. We lose these services all together. Most likely, we will lose the services to Dresden Flughafen since trains will only have 4 stations along those services instead of 8 including the branch line. I think we will still have the services to Meißen, but the services will be much shorter. Shortening these services will make the route much less interesting as you will only be going along small portions of the route. This route had lots of potential of being the busiest German route in TSW. But removing the Dresden Flughafen branch will reduce the service count, meaning there are less services for you to drive. Without these branches, the route feels a lot more like an A-B route. This route had so much potential, but without these branches, that potential has been completely erased. Most people can probably agree with me in saying removing these branches will really hurt the route. This is now my least anticipated route in the Rush Hour pack. As I mentioned before, DTG probably did this for a good reason, as adding these branches could mean the route would have to release in the fall around October-November instead of in the summer. I also wouldn't want to see these branch lines rushed either. However, this still badly hurts the route. Hopefully DTG can come back to this route after release and possibly extend it to Meißen and Dresden Flughafen. If you agree with me, like the forum post and post a reply so we can spread awareness of this.
    upload_2021-7-22_8-56-55.png
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021
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  2. Hidden Donkey

    Hidden Donkey Active Member

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    were getting Riesa - Dresden which is what the route is, its not like it suddnely stops in the middle of nowhere
     
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  3. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    Yes but we are losing a hell of a lot of service variety, and 20% of the track. See the issue?
     
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  4. drnicktgm#1259

    drnicktgm#1259 Well-Known Member

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    And this is the reason why for me it isn't worth to buy anymore if they really don't want to add the S Bahn lines that get removed, because we never had an Airport station in TSW so this would be something new but only because of time they want to stop it, and that's not good, I could wait much longer, that wouldn't be a problem, and also the 40€ are no problem because we still have the 3 routes, but like this it isn't worth to buy, I want 100% of Riesa Dresden, what they have promised first
     
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  5. matjamca

    matjamca Well-Known Member

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    It’s a poor decision and one I hope is reversed very quickly indeed.

    I hope DTG does the right thing.
     
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  6. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, they can't cut content out to meet self-imposed time limits, at the same time as asking for more money (which if it was alone nobody would be bothered with) without a backlash! And the one here on the forums has been giant!
     
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  7. Hidden Donkey

    Hidden Donkey Active Member

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    were getting gatwick airport so we will have an airport station even a airport train so thats good
     
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  8. drnicktgm#1259

    drnicktgm#1259 Well-Known Member

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    That's something different, it's great that a British route gets an Airport connection, but this is something different, this depends on 23 km that are not anymore included
     
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  9. Train Sim 9723

    Train Sim 9723 Active Member

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    I only hope DTG’s announcement regarding Dresden was an April fools joke delay
     
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  10. CrazyDash

    CrazyDash Well-Known Member

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    Sorry guys. The map wasn’t working for whatever reason. I hope it’s now fixed
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021
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  11. saltychipz#3569

    saltychipz#3569 Well-Known Member

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    At least Gatwick is still coming
     
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  12. drnicktgm#1259

    drnicktgm#1259 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah your right at least that as an airport station but it's still sad that they cut Riesa Dresden
     
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  13. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Both S2 to Flughafen Dresden Klotzsche opened in 2001 and the 1970-1973 S1 line S-Bahn Dresden to Meißen needs to be added back into the game original intention of Riesa-Dresden is Rush Hour along the Dresden metropolitan area with the Branch Lines. S1 trains to Meißen causes delays on Leipzig Riesa Dresden line if you're not routed on the fast line Berlin-Dresden Railway via the Weißing-Böhla Railway. In game that's used by SKA DB BR406 or Haputstrecke München Augsburg DB BR403 Ice Line 50 to Frankfurt Am Main Hbf via Hanau Schnellfahrstrecke Leipzig Erfurt. That future route abbreviated in Dovetail Games style is SLE.
     
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  14. mlouie100

    mlouie100 Well-Known Member

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    If I was interested in buying the Bahnstrecke Reisa-Dresden DLC I would like to buy it with all 3 branch lines included to help recreate the rush hour experience with busy train traffic causing delay's.
     
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  15. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    The map clearly shows that what has been cut. The terminus stations would allow for way more gameplay variety, as you can switch ends at them. The branches also each have a unique character, from 'small' town single track at Meißen to underground airport station terminus (three uncommon qualities in just that one station).

    I really want them back, even if it means waiting longer and/or paying more.
     
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  16. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    I am really interested if Dresden Reick survived the... "purge". Nobody answered my question on this yesterday.
     
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  17. formulabee#1362

    formulabee#1362 Well-Known Member

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    I reckon the nail in the coffin for the airport branch was that it is underground- Matt said it required a lot of time consuming baking :(
     
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  18. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    Well the Meißen branch could still have survived, no tunnels there.
     
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  19. simontreanor81

    simontreanor81 Member

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    One thing I'm not sure about - are they coming later, or not at all?
     
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  20. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    As it stands - not at all. They've been cut to meet deadlines as they supposedly turned out to be a lot more work than expected.
     
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  21. 59321747

    59321747 Active Member

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    Simulated Train World has been on sale for several years, hasn't DTG found a faster way to make it?
     
  22. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

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    Only way IMO to speed it up is to hire more people to do it. So this would raise the costs too. There is no "automated-train-world-generation-tool" at all. They have done a few bits on some rountes to fill the far distance forrest by automation, but that is not the major pile of work for a train sime route. You cant tell the tool to build houses, iconic buildings, tracks, stations, exactly recreated landscapes and whatever. If you want to have faster results, you need more money (aka people to do it).
     
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  23. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the insight, their comments on stream made me believe the auto gen tools were a lot more advances than they are. Perhaps I should be a bit less critical towards DTG sometimes, though my grudges are only with the bean counters anyways, I have no doubt the devs are doing all they can, the ones we see on stream and on the forums seem very passionate about what they're doing. I think that if they could they would just do every railway, anywhere, in all kinds of different eras. Sadly there is a financial reality that should be kept in mind.
     
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  24. simontreanor81

    simontreanor81 Member

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    My view is essentially that I first heard "Dresden - Riesa" and that seemed reasonable (and in keeping with most TSW routes). The branches were a huge bonus - I really like the network element of LIRR - and while it's a shame to lose them (particularly if that's permanent), the network element is still there, with a branch, and two paralell routes for almost all the way (I think I saw that the line from Coswig to Dresden via Friedrichstadt is also included). A lot of traffic types, four-track running, a couple of major stations - can't wait.
     
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  25. TrainSim-Matt

    TrainSim-Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    Apologies if i've led anyone astray - the autogen tools are extremely basic, but there's still value in what they do. E.g. they can texture the ground including roads, fields etc and they can lay forests and farmlands in the distance automatically but it's a rough approximation and doesn't help the majority of the scenery that takes the effort yet.

    Good for routes like LGV longer distances to cover due to bridges or Clinchfield which had simpler scenery between the more interesting points but there's no "make route" tool yet by any stretch. What you see in a route is still at least 90%+ built by hand.

    Matt.
     
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  26. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    I haven't seen anything about that anywhere. Only thing I know is that Friedrichstadt yard itself is not included, so I wouldn't cound on that line being there.
     
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  27. drnicktgm#1259

    drnicktgm#1259 Well-Known Member

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    So it might also help a lot in creating the Schnellfahrstrecke Rhein-Main route from Cologne to Frankfurt, because it's mostly only high-speed and would help a lot to create it
     
  28. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

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    H4rH4rH4r.... sorry, couldn't resist to do that :D
     
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  29. drnicktgm#1259

    drnicktgm#1259 Well-Known Member

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    What does H4r mean?
     
  30. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

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    That's 1337-speak for "rofl" or "lol" :love: What i wanted to say is, it will not really help to create one of the worst case route in terms of needed effort to create it. The tool will basically do nothing for that route, especially not speeding up the creation proccess.
     
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  31. klimi15

    klimi15 Developer

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    Probably make it even worse. Its a good tool for flat-farmland because it can create fields and walls and fences. In this case you would then need to remove stuff again. It really isnt for Hill-Valley-Hill of that highspeedline. Its good for a small rural branchline... ha
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2021
  32. drnicktgm#1259

    drnicktgm#1259 Well-Known Member

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    Is this route really so bad or what is the problem with it? Because about 120 people are interested in this route https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/cologne-frankfurt-high-speed-line.27855/
     
  33. klimi15

    klimi15 Developer

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    The route is hard to build. Highspeed track might look easy, but its very hard to lay, its 180km in total! Thats a lot and the biggest problem is Frankfurt. Thats not just build, thats a route on its own. Have look at the extensive track network there. In the time you lay track and signal the Frankfurt area you could lay track and signal 4-5 rural routes.
     
  34. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    It runs through one of the most densely populated and built-up parts of Germany. The effort required would be massive- multiplied by 3 or 4 given its length.
     
  35. drnicktgm#1259

    drnicktgm#1259 Well-Known Member

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    But what about München, because it is the biggest trains station in Germany and would compare with Frankfurt pretty well
     
  36. drnicktgm#1259

    drnicktgm#1259 Well-Known Member

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    To be honest I would like to have this route but first im looking forward in getting all the routes in the Rhein area like getting cologne Duisburg and Cologne Wupperthal connected
     
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  37. klimi15

    klimi15 Developer

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    And Munich was a nightmare to build for them. And Frankfurt is bigger and more complicated. Maybe not the station but the area infront of it.


    Yes it’s a nice looking route, but it’s also pretty boring. You turn on LZB/AFB and are done 50 minutes later.
    I would like to build it, but it needs a lot of time and it probably isn’t the scope DTG can do right now :)
     
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  38. drnicktgm#1259

    drnicktgm#1259 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe in the future it will hopefully be a thing, maybe to make it interesting for players, they can turn off LZB and AFB then it would be a familiar feeling like the LGV route, and otherwise, there could be a lot of things that could be added like traffic jam on the route and other technical problems for the train that can appear randomly
     
  39. uvm0902

    uvm0902 Active Member

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    I've already come to terms with the loss of branches. But I really want to get an answer to the question: "Can we wait for them to appear when expanding?"
     
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  40. CowBoyWolf

    CowBoyWolf Well-Known Member

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    Suprise upload_2021-9-7_17-32-40.png
     
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  41. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Looks like they listen to The Forum suggestion of adding Meißen section. Original plan was Flughafen Dresden Klotzsche branch and Meißen Branch by making Riesa-Dresden 105 km 65 mi length surpassing clinchfield Railroad 63 mi 101 km.
     
  42. CowBoyWolf

    CowBoyWolf Well-Known Member

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    Well the flughafen part is underground so it would require baking the light inside the station so it would mostly take more time
     
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  43. drnicktgm#1259

    drnicktgm#1259 Well-Known Member

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    To be honest I really want the airport branch, but I knew that DTG wouldn't let us down
     
  44. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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  45. CrazyDash

    CrazyDash Well-Known Member

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    I’m glad to see DTG listened to us. The branch line looks really cool. I hope we can see the airport branch in the coming months
     
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  46. underwaterdick

    underwaterdick Active Member

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    That's EXACTLY what they can do!

    The issue isn't "cutting things out" it's telling us too much in the first place.

    Personally I have no issue with them dropping parts of a route before it has actually been made, but I think they should be far less vocal about what they are working on until it has been finalised.
     
  47. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    Screenshot_20210908_202723.jpg
    Cheers for that...
     
  48. Train Sim 9723

    Train Sim 9723 Active Member

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    what was the 22nd ? the 21st was when they announced the reduction of Dresden and the other things
     
  49. underwaterdick

    underwaterdick Active Member

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    Your point was?

    The topic of conversation is still relevant so I don't see an issue with it being from July?
    I could understand if it was something specific to the time, but the route isn't even out yet and is still different to what they had originally over discussed with us.
     
  50. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    My point was it was ages ago.

    And, care to actually read the post.

    "...they can't cut content out to meet self-imposed time limits, at the same time as asking for more money (which if it was alone nobody would be bothered with) without a backlash!"

    Read before Replying. Always a good way of doing things :)
     

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