So while I can't judge based on my own experience (might be getting the route later this week, not decided yet), the second stream showed a very interesting mess regarding the rolling stock on this route. Skyhook introduced 2 new freight cars - a flat car and a gondola. Throughout the stream however you could see many people asking where these appear in the timetable. It turns out that out of ca 75 services... flat cars appear in one, gondolas in none. This is fairly interesting as one would consider the new rolling stock to be a selling point and something you would want players to see a lot throughout their playtime. Maybe a wrong lesson was learned from Rivet and Arosa freight car? The flat car service was briefly shown and to my limited US freight knowledge (correct me if needed) it is absolutely incorrect. The train is described as intermodal and definitely is not manifest (where this combination of loads might happen on a much smaller scale), it is mostly loaded with trash containers and there are some cars with trailers at the end. I definitely don't remember ever seeing trash trains with only partially loaded cars (first couple of cars seem very sparsely loaded, but that's a nitpick), but surely haven't seen a unit stinky train coupled with trailers (FedEx would probably not like to see that either). Aaaand... the trailers are European. As they have 3 axles. American trailers are longer and two wouldn't usually fit one car. But wrong trailers aside... why this combination? Why not more services, some with purely trash containers (light shorter train without the need for DPUs) and some with just trailers or double stacks in well cars and trailers at the end? It might be a nothing problem for many players, but it really shows they don't have a very good idea about railroading. One way or another new rolling stock probably should be a bit more present especially if it's a lot more present IRL.
Deeph knowledge of railroading isnt something i expect from a top software developer. Backchecking their plans and intentions by people can judge the accuracy and technical details is a number 1 "to do" in the sim genre. If this trailer is used there, no problem. If this is an epic fail i guess we all know the direction tsw goes now...
Exactly, I don't expect everyone making 3D models and gameplay to know 100 % the original... but they should consult with someone who knows. Or even start with asking some of them "Ok what runs there specifically? We have this idea, is this correct?"
Wait, what? I didn’t watch the stream. Did they really build two new cars only to use one of them in a single service and the other one only in scenarios? Little bit of a rant here but why is it so hard for 3rd party developers to understand that timetable mode is the heart and soul of TSW? First Rivet don’t get it (horrible 204 services, missing timetable for IoW, freight cars on Arosa) and now Skyhook appear to follow suit.
In the stream they have said the gondolas were supposed to appear in several timetable runs, but most likely somehow got removed by carelessness as they reshuffled the timetable during development. So supposedly they will be brought back with a patch.
Doesn't seem like DTG got it either until recently, Adam's comment about the removal of the 3-car Class 101 being "We removed that formation from part of the gameplay experience" or something like that. Just like they didn't get that people don't appreciate the differences between two different Talent 2s and a 377/387 as much as two completely different trains. Of course all the criticism of the freight cars in Arosa was just forgotten
Hey everybody, I found the gondola! But because it doesn't appear on any of Horseshoe Curve's services (not even as static stock it seems), you have to go to Oakville Subdivision to find it, as it does appear as part of OSD's randomized local freight consists:
It's It's worth noting that 89ft flats in TOFC service doesn't exist anymore, as most if not all railroads now ship trailers either with a 5-unit or 3-unit spine car, or a multipurpose well car. (Especially since modern trailers are now 53ft. Not the 45ft that could be double loaded onto one of these cars. Granted you could load 3 53fts onto 2 drawbar connected 89ft flats, but I don't know how common those were in the 2000s) An example of a pair of drawbrarred 89ft flat cars with 3 53ft trailers. 57ft 3-unit spine car 53ft Multipurpose Well car A proper 89ft flat with 45ft trailers (Common in the 80s, maybe even the early 90s.)
OK, somewhere in this thread people seemed to have forgotten that European trailers as you call them are the standard for international shipping, both 40 and 20 foot. At least half of the loads on US intermodial trains are these with the rest split between US 53 foot and trailers of various sizes. I see, on many trains, two 20 foot containers on the bottom of a well car with a 53 foot on top.
Yet again the development chain falls apart... goes back to what I said on another post that the dev teams just don't work together until far too late in the dev cycle
You are confusing trailers with containers. The trailers that SHG has on the 89ft flats are of a European style container chassis with 3 axles and wheel covers. We don't run those in the states. Most US container chassis are 2 axle, and don't have wheel covers. However, most TOFC services are usually 53ft dry van trailers, though some container chassis with containers on them are usually seen. An example being those FedEx Trailers that derailed on the HSC not to long ago.
Interesting and for the freight wagons these must state the load in US Tons 907.18 kg. Regarding the 89ft flat cars with Lorry last known use in the US was from 2000-2014/2015 or 2000-2011. Basically the entire 2000s early 2010s.
Im sure the inaccurate trailers can be fixed with a patch. It reminds me a little on Arosa, where Rivet made a wonderful Wood trailer, just to not use it in the 24h timetable. Instead of making a rant now, i want to write down how i would have implemented the Flatcars, if i would be the creator of HC: This dlc is another us freight route parallel to sherman hill and sandpatch grade. So it needs a true selling point, why a customer has to go for this route. Beside the "new" loco, creating new rolling stock is a very straight way to do that. So, instead of just deliver the gondola and flatcar halfhearted as additional usable stock, i would advertise the entire route with that new rolling stock in the 24h timetable. This means the flatcar has 10 diffenrent loading freights. Nomatter if they use the flatcar for trailers, the one in the pics below, or one for heavy load, there is always a way to get creative. If they really want a scenario exlucisve flatcar load (not used in 24h tt mode), even there is a way to get creative: My point is, there seems to be a lack of vision to me. The TS Horseshoe curve is one of my favourite, on top in a era makes the route even more special. Im a fan, so i got this route because i wanted, but to be honest i cant see a true selling point beside the route it self. Anyway, my vision for now would be skyhook makes a patch to get those inaccuracies right, especially with the 3 axle trailer, and put those cars on rails to actually have a use in the 24h timetable mode and as static stock.
"Buy this route... but you need another route to utilise the rolling stock" Do you know what era Long-Runners were used in? I guess none of them are in service nowadays, right? Aerial side view of a train is... unusual. Creativity is definitely possible, but how can they get creative when they clearly already have a lot of errors in basic understanding of the services and what is or isn't done. I'm pretty sure (and those 4 trucks support that) you wouldn't be able to use the in-game flatcar to carry a GEVO. The loco weighs 188 metric tons and the axle load in the US is about 36 m. tons? (someone might correct me) 4 axles will NOT hold the weight of the car AND the loco.
Per Athearns page in them, they 1st came into service in 1987. I think I remember seeing on one a BNSF train in the mid 2010s. But haven't seen them since.
Need to start tying these simulators together, FS22 and construction simulator cross-over and you'll have the tractors and diggers to not only put on the flat-beds but to put in the building sites and fields that you drive past. Then we can plough the fields and then haul the produce away to market etc and so on.
It's amazing that after all these years that freight car subbing is still nearly absent across all freight routes. SPG, SMH, and now HSC. No freight car subbing. And the one route that does sub them for whatever reason is Oakville Sub; where we have 10 car trains.
I know the one in the picture has, but not the one we have in-game. Therefore we can't make this service hauling damaged locos. (Besides NS would probably not like that)
Some of those would be pretty easy to implement I would have thought seeing as there are tractors and diggers already modelled and used in the game on various routes so they should be able to be used as loads on the flatcar.
Not quite sure where you've got that idea from. My custom coal cars sub in both full and empty as per the rest of the train and my custom autoracks do too.......
The thing is liveries can sub in no problem, but they would appear where normal coal car would. Currently, manifest trains are a bunch of preset trains with no randomisation. If you made it completely randomly, according to Matt all freight cars in it would be unloaded. So completely random manifest or even all the different types of autoracks mixing together is not possible.
Yes I know but the original point wasn't about randomised formations it was that no freight car custom liveries were subbing in to replace the standard liveried cars on HSC.... And the reply to that post that I then quoted was saying that custom liveried cars only sub in to trains as empty vehicles which they obviously don't as per my image.
188 metric tons equals to 207.23 US Tons due to 1 metric tons equals to 1.10 US Tons. US tons is lighter than a metric ton due to it being .90718 metric ton 907.18 kg. The Game needs to differentiate tons which ones are we using. US Canada routes us US Ton European route metric ton.
I'd been wondering why stuff from other routes appears on OSD but never the other way around. I thought maybe it had something to so with the licensing agreements with some of the railroads, maybe they insisted that their routes have only their rolling stock? Variety is always nice, it would be cool if every route mixed in appropriate rolling stock and liveries from what you own. DW
I've heard that same thing. What I don't get, is that a lot of the freight cars in the game are empty already, like the CSX boxcars; they're always empty. Either way, I really think that Matt and the team should take a closer look at this freight car sub issue. This issue really makes mixed freights repetitive in Train Sim World. The real railroads mixed freights are not repetitive.
Not so. Sometimes they're filled with regular atmospheric air, sometimes they're filled with ultrasuperheavy air. Cheers
So from doing a bit more digging, I actually found that this is not the only place you can find the Gondola. If you go into scenario planner, one of the NS GP38-2 consists is one of a rank of gondolas, in both 20 to 40 car consists (empty and loaded versions are included): This is it in full: The one being shown here is the loaded version, which shows the gondolas filled with what appears to be trash. Now as much as I feel like if these cars were to ever be put onto services on this route, it would just be simply adding them to exist manifest consists (or just placing them in the various yards along this route), this would actually be a good idea for some services on this route, having GP38-2's hauling gondolas full of trash up and down the route. On the subject of manifest consists, one thing I find rather fascinating about this whole discussion (and something I don't think has been brought up here yet) is that the flat car was seemly going to feature a lot more on this route than the one service it features in the final product. How do I know this? Well go back to the first Horseshoe article that was posted way back at the beginning of January (before Tharandter Rampe came out) some the images show the flat car mixed in among the manifest trains: Link to article here: https://live.dovetailgames.com/live/train-sim-world/articles/article/american-legend Keep in the mind that this was back in January, when development was probably still ongoing. But it's clear that the flat car featuring in manifest trains ended up getting cut in the time between the release of that article and when the route finally did come out, probably when Skyhook carried out many changes to the route in the time in-between. Why? I have no idea. Whether it should be reinstated (and more importantly, should the flatcar even shown up in the manifest consists at all), I'll let you decide on that one.
That's a pretty cool load in those gondolas. Definitely something that could've been featured in the timetable.
I really hope they find a way to bring this rolling stock to service mode with a patch- all the hard work of modelling has already been done.
