If The Worst, Comes To The Worst…

Now, before you all go typing in this
here’s my question;

If TSW5 ends up being disappointing, with DTG not addressing any bugs, or making false promises like suspension, are you willing to boycott in a worse case scenario type situation?

Or. In other words. If DTG makes the biggest mistake they’ve ever done, that infuriates the entire community. Or something that DTG does that breaks the final straw for a lot of players.
whether you are or not, I am not condoning in any way shape or form. A boycott. I just want to know what people think and what they would be willing to do…

I’m just curious…

Show me what you got…

 

Difficult to vote because everyone's expectations are different.

The worst case scenarios for me are if TSW5 is in someway a backwards step from the functionality of TSW4 or it's so jittery it's unplayable or if none of the new products promised are of any interest to me.

But if even if things stay as they are I'm going to continue to play the routes I love. I'm not boycotting, I'm merely waiting until they release something I want. As for historic bugs, why not list them so DTG can see what your issues are?

 

I will buy on sale with an 80% discount as I recently bought TSW 4 - there is no other way))

 

i don’t think a boycott should happen at any point, no one wins from that. the best solution for me would be to only buy dlc’s on sale for a while until dtg get their act together. then they might get the message that most of their products aren’t worth £30

 

Im not willing to boycott dtg.
Yes there are many mistakes in terms of not fixing bugs etc. but there arent just bad things.
Dtg COULD do it better but they could do way worse too.
I dont buy a new Tsw for some new features, i buy it for new routes, a new feeling(ingame music, theme etc) and i dont bother reinstalling every dlc. (i still understand why others do bother).
If Dtg does something like releasing a buggy route with extreme impact to the experience, i will be dissapointed, but i would never boycott Dtg.

 

Am I misremembering the suspension update being announced as part of TSW3?

 

Yes it was a feature advertised in TSW4 not TSW3

 

I will wait for what's announced in the Dovetail Direct. For now, I'm ignoring all speculation, "leaks", and rumours. It might be something nobody was expecting, so who knows

 

If, and this is a huge if like you've never seen, a boycott of the game got any traction and Steam behind it (puns all intended), I would perposely go out and buy multiple copies of it. All solely because I refuse to follow any crowd or cause, If I want something I buy that something, and never listen to anyone else because the only opinion of the something I care about is mine, everyone else's opinion of the something would also be totally valid, but would completely ignore them.

 

For me, at least, the last best release of TSW was the second game that came with the Bakerloo Line. The third game was ok with the Southeastern High-Speed extension and the 4th game was boring AF! Not to mention a completely useless feature to me with the route editor that requires Unreal Engine knowledge.

If the rumoured routes for TSW 5 are real, then I would likely wait. None of the routes has any appeal to me and would only enter my collection should there be a sale on Steam or a future DLC release that does take to my liking... such as the completion of East Coastway to Ore.

Concerning bugs, I have only ever experienced a few but nothing to scream and shout about on a forum. All I have seen is camera glitches on London Commuter when you have an external view, the camera is pushed under the map when going under 2 bridges before Haywards Heath. The spelling of Polegate on East Coastway has been wrong ever since its release.

One last point is that DTG is a small games company and does not have the resources of bigger publishers such as EA, Ubisoft and Rockstar. I think the idea of boycotting DTG for not keeping to a schedule for whatever reason is a bit childish.

 

Gotta be honest... If (very big if) TSW5 includes a route or feature which really interests me from the start, I'll be buying it pretty quickly.
If not, I'll wait for some feedback to come in, and if the feedback is positive I'll buy it as soon as an interesting DLC hits. I won't wait for any sale in particular; if a product is good, I'm willing to pay the money it's worth. But if a product is bad, I see no point in paying at all

On a sidenote: The poll in this thread could be counterproductive, to say the least... if "I'll buy" remains in the lead, DTG could read the message as "Look, they'll buy anything from us regardless of quality! Immediately fire the remaining 1,5 quality control guys!"

 

Worst case scenario for me would be if DTG gave up completely and we're left with no other alternatives other than those that already exist (which I don't bother with). I couldn't face going back to TSC now, it's just so outdated, yes it does have some excellent soundpacks thanks to AP but I just can't get back into it despite the many routes and loco's.

DTG have their faults but I'd hate to lose future development of the sim despite the many bugs and flaws it currently has.

You know the saying, you don't appreciate what you've got, until it's gone!

 

Whit WCML and 390's i will buy it at day one

 

If I found out that DTG treated their staff badly, underpaid them and that the company allowed a toxic working environment which turned a blind eye to bullying, discrimination and inequality then I would "boycott" the company's products with the intention of bringing the issues to the attention of the wider public. I'd maybe devote all of my spare time to running an awareness campaign and organising a protest event.

Simply not buying a product because you don't like it or don't think it's value for money isn't a "boycott". It's merely a consumer exercising their rights to chose what they want to spend their money on. DTG get the feedback they need from sales figures and from statistics that we generate for them every time we use TSW.

 

If I have to go from sending 10 bug tickets a week to 20+ I'll just come back and complain about it on the forums some more.

Boycott's never seen to work, especially for Train Sim World, because DTG knows they have no competition and everybody always comes back in the end.

 

If it has something I want (and it most likely will), I'll make the decision to spend my money on it.

Boycotting will do nothing, and is pointless when I get enjoyment from it.

 

Well even though we cannot discuss the UK route that cannot be named, that pretty much guarantees I'll buy it, modern one handle era notwithstanding. As to whether I buy a regional pack or deluxe version, well that will depend very much on what the American and European content are. If it is San Bernadino then really too similar to AVL which I did look forward to but ended up being less enjoyable and a bit of a chore to drive than I imagined. As for Europe well we know nothing, really could be anything from inter urban Germany (the old chestnut), to something else with a bit of Austria or Switzerland or they might even surprise us with a new country. So I vote "Yes" but with the caveat the final package will determine what level I buy in at and if they go to a subscription model well all bets are off in that case (as in no way, Jose).

 

All the talk of boycott is questionable for two reasons-

A) Its unenforceable
B) Its a subjective purchasing decision, nothing more.

People will decide if its something they want or not based on whether they think its worth the money. Fear of missing out certainly seems to drive a lot of the angst but tbh, thats a personal issue too for those who are thus afflicted.

Get it, or dont get it. It shouldnt affect your decision what someone else does. You dont hang around the shelves of (insert supermarket name) waiting to see what someone else is buying then get it because you dont want to miss out. If enough people say that the pies are delicious then maybe I personally might look at the pies a little more closely, but if lots say the brocolli is delicious Im still not going to be buying brocolli anytime soon. Why would you stop others buying brocolli though? If they want to its up to them..

DTGs business practices make me hold my nose and I'll be vocal in my disapproval, but if others want to subscribe to that then its overstepping my privileges here to attack them for that. Theyll figure it out in the end hopefully.

 

I will be surprised if I don't purchase it, almost certainly there will be one route I will be interested in, if not all of them. I have enjoyed most of what TSW has to offer so far. I do have some reservations, for instance some of DTG's decision making, the abandonment of steam for example. If we continue (from a UK perspective) getting very similar routes with similar trains then it might eventually make me at least slow down my support for TSW.

As for a boycott, then no, why should I boycott it, if I get enjoyment out of TSW? Whilst I enjoy it I will buy into it, not withstanding patronising comments from some who seem to think they are on some moral high ground. I am sure if TSW5 does release then as has happened a few times over the last year, there will be some telling people they shouldn't purchase TSW5 or DLC and/or calling them stupid for doing so.

Frankly there are few alternatives that interest me anyway. I dabble with TSC but no where near as much as I did, it does have much more variety though which I think TSW lacks to some extent. DRS would be great with real world routes. Simrail probably won't interest me until if/when a UK route is released or I might look at the German route but it needs to have the same level of single player experience, it wouldn't replace TSW anyway. Trainz has never really appealed. TSW despite its faults and frankly some of DTG's choices which leave me sometimes incredibly frustrated, is the best train simulator as far as I am concerned.

 

I have no intention of purchasing it at launch, especially when we still have DLC being sold at full price that hasn't had a touch-up or rework since TSW2. Some of Dovetail's recent business practices have rubbed me the wrong way, particularly the current pricing model, which doesn’t differentiate between a reskinned train and a completely new unit.

Additionally, it feels like the community members who purchase things at launch are expected to be the beta testers, as the units are rarely the finished product. The release of the ScotRail 158 was the straw that broke the camel's back for me, as visual errors were immediately visible in Skyhook's own showcase video.

Creating a feedback thread for every launch so that the loyal members of this community, who are dedicated to seeing the game succeed, can post all the errors and issues with a release that a developer could have found with even a modicum of pre-launch testing is taking advantage of the good nature of these said members.

Organized boycotting never works (not that I support it) because people inevitably purchase the game regardless of the stance they initially take. For me, that's fine because you're allowed to spend your own money, and nobody has the right to tell you what you can and can't do with it.

DTG being the main player in the rail sim market means that no matter how much we protest, we're unlikely to foster change. I hate to tell people to "deal with it", but there's a thread with 110+ pages of complaints about the current TSW franchise that has yet to receive any recent acknowledgment. I don't believe these threads get any traction beyond us in the community.

 

This is the way

There are games like Railroader that are starting to gain some traction. Run8 has been around for years, longer than TSW, and if people gave it a shot would find that its light years better that TSW. Sim Rail is....well...Sim Rail. There are other names out there, they are jsut over shadowed by the way DTG markets it's games.

 

Asking for feedback = taking advantage.

That isn't at all true.

 

My stance on it is that I like TSW. I've played it for four years now so frankly you'd hope so. I reserve the right to either buy it or not buy it, cos it's my money and I can do what I want. Same goes for others imo. While, yes, the suspension situation is beyond sub-optimal, I've seen far worse (I play PAYDAY 3. That game went 7 months without new content and only very minor bugfixes.) Furthermore, I've seen potshots be taken by those who hate DTG calling people fanboys and such for daring to want more from where the current crop of content came from (cos imagine liking what you want. Seems to be a common source of ire round here.) Just let people do what they want.

 

I don't think I've articulated it well enough, but the 158 thread is filled with bugs immediately apparent from everyone's first playthrough. Why weren't they visible to the people creating the unit and subsequently fixed? I don't find it fair the community have to raise the issues that should've been resolved before launch, had playtesting occured.

The game is great, but for the money spent there has to be more polish to justify a yearly title.

 

TSW could be so much better yea, but I don’t think it’s bad enough to the point where I would need to boycott, when it comes to rivet products however I’ve given them a hard pass

 

I am taking a wait and see attitude may wait for a good sale this time and if this lack of NA freight issue comes to a positive resolution..if they let down on it then i might just go elswhere ive seen lots post on forums that they got TSW for the CSX heavy haul aka sand patch so with that DTG should highly consider a sand patch remaster as well as the rumored clinch field ..Im not too excited for the Metrolink san Bernadino. Unless it has a freight layer for Fontana locals yards .i dont play Antelope much if i do i run free roam freight..and even im begining to feel discouaged over the content features they tout at release then they cant get it together and give us us a fully fuctional features ..then they jump to another sucessor etc think they bite off more thanthey can chew in that they tout a new feature but they cant make it whole ie take on something they cant handle

 

That's the whole point of feedback - so any potential issues can be addressed and fixed in a future update.

They're working to a deadline. Some of these issues being addressed probably didn't make it into the release build for one reason or other. Or maybe the testers missed them.

 

I understand the definition of feedback, thanks.

The core issue I'm addressing is the apparent lack of adequate testing before the DLC's public release. It seems the community is being used as unpaid beta testers for a product that clearly was not ready for launch. This approach, in my view, exploits the community. Your defense of the situation, littered with cop-out excuses, almost feels like Stockholm syndrome, accepting and justifying subpar standards. If testers missed issues that the community discovered within the first thirty minutes, there is a significant flaw in the release process.

That above is why I'm not comfortable paying for a yearly title. That's all I meant.

 

I am, and always will be a preorder type person...

TSW has some minor faults, but overall it's a well made game (for me anyway), and with every TSW release there seems to be a clear improvement over the last generation. So, if TSW5 is announced, I'll preorder it as soon as possible.

Some people like COD, GTA etc... and this brings them excitement. But for me I get the same thrill with every release. But each to their own.

 

Silly poll. Doesn't even mention what exactly we are or aren't purchasing. There's no collective action in the player community, everyone makes his or her individual decision based on content. Mine will be based principally on the US route and I will buy the least expensive package that includes it if I want it at all. I got snookered into buying the deluxe edition of TSW4 and got virtually nothing from it.

I doubt that there will be any core features or changes that will loosen my wallet and I'm not interested in yet another pretty colored, over powered UK emu route. So I might end up not buying anything until I really need to.

If you want collective action, start a " ban the silly polls " petition. I'll sign that.

 

It's it's NECESSARY to run the newer stuff, the bugs are worked out and it's heavily on sale... sure. Otherwise nah. I'll stick with 4.

 

I don't understand this poll very much. Why would you ask people if they would buy it if it is a disappointment? Why would you think people would buy something they are disappointed by? Will I buy this game if it disappoints you? Probably because I don't care all too much about what other people think should excite or annoy me.

 

The only reason I would boycott DTG would be if TSW5 somehow prevents access to existing DLCs that I have paid for, which is highly unlikely. The incentive for buying a TSW5 wouldn't necessarily be for new core features (unless it was something truly amazing), but mainly for new content. After all, existing DLCs largely aren't supported with new core features at launch anyway (etc. TOD4 lighting, new weather, suspension improvements) so buying a TSW5 would just be like buying a new route.

I don't like the way the game is re-released every year, which means having multiple versions of the game and having to reinstall everything each year (a complete mess IMO). If that's the way it needs to be though to get more content and pay the staff, then so be it.

I would prefer a re-release every 3 or 4 years, with more substantial core game upgrades built up over that time and included then, like with Farming Simulator and Microsoft Flight Simulator. The differences between TSW3 and TSW4 for example only felt very minor and not really worthy of an entirely new game.

 

I don’t understand why people are calling this a silly poll…

the reason I created this poll was to gather information about what people would do if DTG does a horrible decision

I’m open to editing the poll to suit people’s wishes. But I just want everyone to know, I’m not causing a war, or a problem here. I just want answers.

 

You are asking for an opinion on a product that isn't released yet about a state that is as yet unknown. Seems pretty pointless to me.

As for a boycott. Even if the entire forum boycotted it, that would likely be such a small amount of the player base it would make no difference. Even if a boycott were successful. If DTG suddenly get no money they will likely do less development.

The announcement is not far away, lets see what we're actually getting first. If it's TSW5 and I want the routes, I'll buy it. If not then I'll wait until there is a route I want or a sale.

If it is a complete disappointment, then I'm just not buying it. That isn't a boycott, it's just not buying something I don't want.

 

A poll usually has a purpose, to help making a decision which should follow.

What are you doing with the result you've gathered so far? And AmityBlight has made a good point on the possible consequences of such polls.

 

I'd rather have this, to be honest. Annual releases make no sense with a game such as TSW.

 

I was trying to make this thread as unbiased as possible to avoid any conflicts from happening.

what I actually think, is that yes, boycotts don’t work.

Even if the entirety of the forums joined up to create one, it wouldn’t even be enough players for it to even be effective.

I tried not to show my opinion throughout this thread, because I knew it would cause something I have no control over

 

I’m actually testing the water a bit here, I’m making notes about what people want, out of this poll.

in other words; im studying

like I said, I can more than happily change the poll to fit what people would feel more comfortable answering for.

 

The problem with boycotts or any form of brinkmanship is what if the other party calls the bluff? What would people suddenly do if DTG did say, okay we get the message you don’t like what we’ve done with TSW so the game is cancelled. And as we no longer have the cross revenue to support it, further work on TSC is abandoned and both games withdrawn from sale to new players along with all the DLC.

That’s the ultimate path this type of sanction could lead to and, while god knows TSW has numerous issues that DTG ought to get off their behinds and sort out, the train sim scene - particularly in the UK - would be poorer without it. What would we play then? Ancient MSTS routes in Open Rails relying on a loose association of part time coders to maintain the core? Trainz, Hell no. Open BVE if you can find anywhere still hosting UK content you can download without navigating a wall of misleading adware and malware download click links.

So before posting this sort of poll really should think a bit more closely where it could lead to. Hopefully DTG are made of sterner stuff and not about to throw away their multi £million franchise(s) over a bit of forum wittering

 

When I see calls for boycotts it tends to just encourage me a bit to buy it.

There is no reason to call for one unless the game is quite literally unplayable - which, as it's still at least a month from release, cannot be known - so calling for one hypothetically is a little bit pathetic, imho.

If the game is a poor effort but the routes are good - I would, and I think many other people would, still buy it.

It's a simulator which we have no real modern alternative to.
I'm quite happy to buy it and, based on every other "boycott" attempt in the past - 99% of people also are.

 

People say the same things every time they suspect a new TSW game is coming, it feels like deja vu

 

You know what I want?

if DTG this year just did a rush hour thing, and made it a free core update with the routes sold in a bundle separately. It would be fairer

but the higher ups won’t…because all they care about is the profits of this game…nothing more. And no one can change them.

 

What would DTG even do without their 2 Train Sim franchises making money?

Fishing World?
More Tram Sim?
Catan?
Return to flight Sim in a market corned by Microsoft?

If DTG stopped both existing sims, then DTG would probably either shut down, downsize, or try a 3rd train Sim franchise with a new name separate from TSW and TSC.

 

If I were DTG, watching this poll as it currently is, I might very well get the idea that the majority of people seem to be willing to pay good money for my product, even if it is rubbish. Since rubbish takes much less time, effort and monetary input to produce than quality, why not go down that route?

Being myself, I'm actually quite surprised and a bit sad that "I'll buy it regardless" is so clearly the top spot right now.
There are countless threads and posts across the forum like "DTG doesn't care for quality control, they'll never fix age-old bugs!" or "When will we finally get feature X which was promised for TSW3/4?" or the 200+ Anti-TSW5-threads. And after all this complaining and hollering most people still seem to be completely fine with spending money on a new version of the game, even if it's proven to be rubbish.

I don't want my TSW to be rubbish. I don't want anyone to encourage DTG to deliberately make it rubbish, either.

 

Hopefully these new options will change things…

 

It’s a flawed poll.

“Buy it regardless” is the only option for those thinking of purchasing. Its wording makes it sound like anyone who buys TSW5 on release or pre-order is an unashamed DTG fanboi or acolyte which is patently not the case.

Also entirely hypothetical as we don’t know what level of packages will be available to purchase. Depends entirely on the route bundle and fair to say those of us who last year bought the Deluxe version, this year might only buy a regional starter pack if two of the three routes and any bonus items don’t appeal. Or the converse might apply.

Some might be swayed by a pre order discount, others might not.

There could be some massive core game improvements delivered on Day One which could sway it for some people.

Just too many variables, certainly prior to 20th August, for the wording of the poll to have any real meaning.

 

The thing that might conditioning me for buy it or not is if we have again free roam, and can spawn trains like now, this thing allow me to solve almost all issues (5X23 coach preparation for example)

 

Breaking News: Business's goal is to make money.

Changing the options of a poll 15 hours later (after most people will have cast their votes, as tends to happen on the forum) isn't the best way to do a poll.

Also, your new options are both quite literally the exact same, so all you'll do there is split the vote.

They're also nonsense. Nobody can say "more work is needed for me to buy it" when they haven't seen the product.

 

The last two options of the poll, "more work needs to be done for me to buy it" and "I'll buy it, but more work is needed" don't even make sense, as we don't know the current state of whatever "it" is.