In Cab Visual Deterioration (series X - Post Patch)

Discussion in 'Xbox Discussion' started by pinxtonpaws, Aug 19, 2021.

  1. dreampage

    dreampage Well-Known Member

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    I agree but we have no other choice if we want this game to be enjoyable again. We have to keep banging on the doors and emphasize what an important and glaring bug this is. Otherwise it will never be fixed and we'll be stuck with blurry textures until the next game in the series.
     
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  2. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    Well, I've done everything I could, what I recommend to everyone here is send a ticket to the kayako customer support site if you haven't done already, this will hopefully prioritise this bug in front of other stuff now that the big PS download problem seems like it's largely resolved.

    Make sure to include photos and/or videos or a link to this thread if you posted here already so they can see what's going on, although I suspect they already took a look at what we posted so far.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2021
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  3. dreampage

    dreampage Well-Known Member

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    Matt is now currently playing on Xbox Series X and there are no texture bugs whatsoever. This way it will never be fixed, if they can't reproduce it.
     
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  4. bigcat4

    bigcat4 New Member

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    Has anyone tried clearing their profile to see if that makes any difference? i.e. is it an issue for new users?
     
  5. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    As I said in the chat: It happened near the start and, ironically, a few minutes after I sent that message.

    The german trains (particularly the ones with screens instead of dials) are the "least bad" and usually it's just a temporary flicker rather than a persistent deterioration (like for the TGV and Class 395) - That's why I'm almost exclusively playing RSN and MSB since the update.

    Also it's route dependent, and this route in particular seems to be built in such a way that reduces when the various textures load. It will be more noticeable on the BR143 I'm sure - look at the transformer tap number.

    They said it's a big issue and that gives me a lot of confidence, I'm still not confident enough it won't end up like the sound issue which maybe will get fixed sometimes because it's more complicated than it sounds, and that's why I'm holding off purchasing the season pass (even if I have to admit I'm liking BRD).
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2021
  6. Wooki74

    Wooki74 Active Member

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    Is it his own xbox or a dev kit. Last time he played on xbox the glitches were there for everyone to see .
     
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  7. dreampage

    dreampage Well-Known Member

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    I don't know. I'm not looking tonight's stream that closely (flying in Flight Simulator in the meantime) but it seems mostly fine. Since it's an upcoming route it could be a dev build / devkit.
     
  8. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    The Boston release stream was full of this graphic and texture issues and glitches all time
     
  9. maz_62

    maz_62 Active Member

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    It would be great if Matt or someone else from Dovetail would comment…..
     
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  10. bakedpotatos.jm

    bakedpotatos.jm Well-Known Member

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    It was doing it like crazy on the 112 freight route.
     
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  11. Sprinter

    Sprinter Active Member

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    Well they did comment on tonights stream. They are aware of the blurry textures and the broken looping sound issues. But dont get your hopes to high it will be fixed anytime soon. Its a mess and im not happy about it at all!
     
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  12. pinxtonpaws

    pinxtonpaws Guest

    I'm absolutely disgusted. Sam assured the community that new content WOULD NOT be released into a broken game. Is the XBox version not broken on all platforms? Or are we just not worthy enough to be considered within that statement?

    Nothing has changed, it's still all about chucking as much content out as possible and just placing all the issues into a 'looking into it' pile which may or may not get fixed at some point or other. It's a complete and utter waste of time.
    The sad thing is, such is their level of attention to detail, QC didn't even pick up on the fact that the cars were driving on the wrong side of the road so that probably goes a long way to explaining why the equally as 'inobvious' blurry cab textures went undetected!

    "we need more money to make sure you get the best experience we can deliver".. Ha! What an out and out insult to XBox gamers.
     
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  13. nockwurst

    nockwurst Active Member

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    DtG has not quite zero interest in fixing it, but it’s darn close. Priority one is still pump out dlc for the almighty dollar, and QA be damned.
     
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  14. Sprinter

    Sprinter Active Member

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    You are right! Its an insult to Xbox gamers. And all the " We are looking into it/ its so difficult to fix" is not enough. But hey.. lets just showcase some new features instead on stream.... while a big number of your customers are not happy atm!
     
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  15. Kobebeef

    Kobebeef Active Member

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    The flickering clicking looping sounds is what kills the game for me I can't even use my headset constantly in-game having to shut of SFX to reset the sound getting glitched, it drives me crazy.

    When will they fix this I mean it's been here since tsw2 release ? Matt said it's gona a need a big overhaul and will probably take another year(2025?). Man so much time and money spent to have it ruined like this totally a game breaker how can they expect to get new game pass consumers when the game is totally broken lol
     
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  16. Sprinter

    Sprinter Active Member

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    They cannot even get the cars on the right side on the road in Germany in the Riesa-Dresden Route lol .. i give up...
     
  17. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    That's actually the real problem. Not about the cars driving on the left (TBH I didn't even notice that), but the fact QA failed to report this texture issue. I still can't believe they didn't notice it, so it either wasn't reported, or it was ignored in order not to delay the release, and honestly I don't know which of those is worse...

    But at least they not only acknowledged this bug exists, they also said it's a priority for them to fix it, which is the best case scenario besides this bug being fixed already or not existing in the first place. Hopefully it's something that will be resolved within a few week, if not days. I want to remain hopeful, let's see how this situation evolves.
     
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  18. JonnE

    JonnE Well-Known Member

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    Sorry but I don't get some of the negativity here.

    Matt said the engineering team are onto this issue, he just wasn't sure if a fix could be included in the next update.
    Sam then made it very clear that this is an issue which falls in their category of 'not acceptable standard of quality' and therefore has a high priority.

    Regarding the sound issue Matt explained that the cause of it is the used compression method or software - something like that, don't nail me for this. Anyway, they spoke to various other gaming studios who stated that because of this issue they stopped using this method but move to another one instead.

    This move would lead to a complete recooking of all content and therefore a full redownload later on. Not speaking of the necessary QA before. But again, according to Matt there are internal tests running how this can be achieved.

    In my personal opinion this was quite successful for us xbox users...

    ... meanwhile I'm more bothered by the not always loading layers issue anyway - it's quite annoying doing a SKA run into Cologne and wondering why the route is dead just to remember after Düren you forgot to check if the layers were loaded before the start...

    P.S.: Driving on the left lane is more fun here anyway ;)
     
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  19. Rutgerski

    Rutgerski New Member

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    I’m not a developer, but I’ve worked in game localisation for 15 years now and in the beginning I did some localisation testing on site at a big developer. They had a separate room that contained a big board with all the bugs that had been reported during QA and I was surprised (oh to be naive again!) when they said there were still 100 bugs left when the game went gold.
    Dovetail is a much smaller dev and I’m sure they can’t afford to delay their titles too much. I’m sure their QA caught all these bugs. As long as it’s not a game-breaking bug, they will release the game with it. Let’s hope they will fix this glaring issue at some point.
     
  20. Kobebeef

    Kobebeef Active Member

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    Sucked looped clicking glitched sounds clapping in every 5 minutes is not playable, try sitting in Boston south or aaany route and you will get this over and over and over again, it is game breaking...
    I love this game, but come on guys this is basic for any game sounds to have to work properly, and it's not a isolated sometimes glitch, its asap i fire the game up. I mean it's 101 coding, surely I can't be the only one
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2021
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  21. bones.n.hombre

    bones.n.hombre Active Member

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    Im sure you’re not the only one.

    Most people, who are unhappy, like myself, have just stopped or reduced playing (and more importantly paying) and play other stuff until things improve, Microsoft flight simulator has been a god send.

    I for one supported this game and forgave a lot of small hiccups due to the niche nature of the subject matter.

    However I heard during last nights stream that they have a broad outline of the DLC through to next March, and then a loose idea for the rest of next year. I would much prefer they fixed some of the game breaking bugs (for everyone not just Xbox), rather than plan on new stuff.
     
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  22. PeterNeutron

    PeterNeutron Member

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    It has been this way for years with DTG.
    Release full of bugs from which many are gemabraking in a sense that it ruins the immersion or the aim of the game.
    Then they promise to "look into this" and before you know, there is a new DCL with the same glitches coming out to ensure cash.
    At the moment the community got really upset they began a bit more communication with the customers to calm people down whilst the next DLC came out. People bought and beleived they would improve as promised.
    Instead of working in an effective structure, they release AddOns baked together with hardly any modular options.

    Example:

    BR146 cant be used without the MSB route whereas the Dresden DLC will come with an upgraded version but only for Dresden.
    Services on many routes cant be used because the rolling stock is part of another Route you have to buy.
    I am fully fine with buying a Loco DLC to anable the respective services on a route but not with beeing forced to buy another complete route to drive a S-Bahn service at the Cologne route!
    This is money generating behaviour at first point and second it is an ineffective mess to take care of in regard to updates etc.

    Yesterday Matt said they dont know if they are able to update the "old" BR146 because it is a lot of work for the preservation team and old routes already have the Loco if you have bought the MSB route and they look maybe into this and so on!

    They keep the whole system ineffective for a reason and this is generating new money!
    Seperating rolling stock from routes would free people from buying cpmplete routes and bring more efficient updating options for the rolling stock. Like BR182 for example.
    But the BR101 requires a whole route to work, PIS etc are heavily bound to the route the Loco came from and so on....

    Besides all those complicated stuff, XBox players experience an absolute mess in regard to the LOD/Texture Issue.
    Driving the ICE is a yoke because the cab and the Gauges are not readable at all when getting faster.

    And yet DTG continues as if nothing happened to sell the next Rush Hour DLC where nearly no passengers are visible in the morning 09:30 AM at Dresden Hbf!

    I really thought after the Hamburg Release they would learn a bit....but hey raod traffic on the wrong side in germany, empty plattforms during morning and day on a Rush Hour DLC, unreadable textures, faulty safety systems on Boston route and a poor performance for many consoleros here, shows clearly that DTG is either not in control of theire own software or they dont give a **** about us.
     
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  23. pinxtonpaws

    pinxtonpaws Guest

    I also noticed that Matt went to great lengths to ensure the glitch was as inobvious as possible on that stream. The "let's not turn the cab lights on because it shows reflections" (when the lights are on the glitch is blatant) on the Talent dawn run...and the absolutely rigid cab view (it never moved once) on the second daylight run so as to carefuly obscure the glitchy bits. This must be the first time in living memory Matt hasn't moved the internal camera around and 'messed' with stuff / zoomed in on stuff whilst the train was moving. It was quite pathetic really.
     
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  24. pinxtonpaws

    pinxtonpaws Guest

    I think you're missing the point. It's got absolutely nothing to do with the texture glitching (although it should never have been there in the first place we generally accept that it's just one of those things), it's the way in which DTG have handled the issue that concerns me. Take the PS4/PS5 thing for example. They dropped absolutely everything to ensure that side of the fence could correctly play TSW, yet they didn't take the same attitude towards XBox users for something that, just like the PS thing, impacted every single gamer to the point where some (not all) routes are genuinely unplayable...and remember, even though the topic was widely discussed on these forums (and the staff supposedly read these posts) it initially got passed off as 'a few blurry passengers' and was never even recognised as being a problem. All that they've since done is simply acknowledge that something is amiss, along with the generic "looking into it" statement and just marched on with the release of Dresden. I didn't watch the entire stream but I did find the 'meat & veg' bit where Sam kinda laid into Matt and Matt kinda answered stuff but again, all I heard was "engineers looking into it" in a manner that suggested they'd neither isolated the problem nor resolved it. That is not prioritised ("above everything else"). Dresden is prioritised and everything else is in the usual 'as and when' timeline.

    You know, I absolutely abhor SMS for their initial attitude toward Project Cars (1 and 2) on consoles but the one dignified thing they did do was put a blanket hold on all DLC's until they resolved the plethora of problems that came with the release versions of those games. Sure, they didn't fix everything but the important thing was it showed that, even though they were a small team operating within a very tight budget, the base game always comes first. 'If you don't fix the game you don't sell the DLC's', so to speak. Food for thought.
     
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  25. bigcat4

    bigcat4 New Member

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    I'm pleased that it was acknowledged on the stream and I do believe that DTG would like to see this fixed as soon as possible too.

    It might be quite a controversial suggestion and may have been made before, but what about a different revenue model? A subscription would allow for a regular income, less dependent on selling individual DLCs. Perhaps then, more time could be spent expanding on or polishing content already released?
     
  26. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

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    Or could lead to even more of a contented sense of being able to take customers for granted.
     
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  27. pinxtonpaws

    pinxtonpaws Guest

    A revenue model (similar to Gamepass) is fine for casual gamers but a lot of people on this forum have been playing TSW for years and will doubtless play it for years to come so the thought of continually paying for something you'll never own becomes much less appealing over time.

    Personally I like the three routes for £35 thing but I would like to see age depreciation taken into cosideration with the older routes (after all, two year old games are not at two year old prices) and bundle them together in a similar fashion to generate this 'polishing' income. Reading the product reviews for both TSW's (something which DTG have seemingly neglected to do) on XBox store not only highlights that people genuinely do like the game but quite clearly states they're not prepared to pay that much for the DLC's, so why not try a three routes for £25 bundle to entice the new batch of gamers? Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

    Above everything else though you have to remember that, say, the Peninsula corridor + Long Island duo is more expensive to buy than Microsoft Flight simulator and in an age where money is tight and games are getting more and more expensive value for money will always be the deciding factor when purchasing games. Well, if you're a sensible gamer who values money, that is :cool:
     
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  28. JonnE

    JonnE Well-Known Member

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    Hm okay, I get what you mean. But in comparison to a completely broken library and not working DLCs at all I would consider this 'I've accidentally taken my glasses of' issue relatively minor ;)
    Although LGV is not a really fun experience anymore. But on all other routes I've tried out so far I'd take the layer issue more serious than this one. But that's just my personal opinion.

    Nice that you mentioned PC2 - after making the mistake of buying it on release it was really unplayable for a couple of months - at least I considered it that way :)
    After half a year or so I tried it again just to notice nothing happened to the issues after that time. I then moved back to FM7 (or was it 6 back then?) - something TSW is never in danger of ;)
     
  29. pinxtonpaws

    pinxtonpaws Guest

    I think it was more PC1 than anything. They held off on the first DLC until the ridiculous handling (amongst other things) was sorted on PS/XB1 and then released the DLC.
    PC2 was a different affair and I agree it was awful for the first two months, but after the first couple of patches it was fine on X1X but struggling on XB1. But the main point was they prioritised those two updates over the season pass content.
     
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  30. nockwurst

    nockwurst Active Member

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    903F2716-F2C5-4A42-98BB-5157D83B6F56.jpeg
     
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  31. sVig

    sVig Member

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    I'm not an expert but I don't get how they are a bit puzzled by it. It's not like this is an issue only happening to a few people. How/why did this issue get through to start with is what I'm wondering.
     
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  32. PeterNeutron

    PeterNeutron Member

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    This and other issues got through because they either did not recognize it because of too less testing or they noticed it and did not care about it as.
    Just a reminder...
    On Hamburg route all 500 Hz PZB magnets have been placed wrong making 100% of the services broken when involving a red signal.
    DTG knew this prior release as they stated during a stream a week later or so.
    But no one felt responsible to tell people that they accidantly released a broken route. It took days to acknowledge and furthermore they already had a fix. If they communicated honestly and instant, no problem but knowing the faulty parts and releasing this without admitting that its wrong, is a punch in ours face.

    With this texture glitch it is impossible that they did not see this because the moment you cant read the dials anymore how fast you go, like in the ICE, you should have some alarm bells going on.

    But hey, lucky we...they have a tech team looking into this! Haha
     
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  33. ajwilson1889

    ajwilson1889 Active Member

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    I agree, I got this on Series X as its just more convenient to sit in the sofa and ay on a big TV, but it's just too broken for me. What you see most of in the game is the inside of your cab and the constant resolution changes and instrument flicker makes it just no fun. I tried the other night and switched off after 5 minutes, its just irritating and shouldn't be there. And now they've moved onto next DLC while their game is still broken
     
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  34. cjm#5741

    cjm#5741 Member

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    Exactly! In their streams they promised that they would not release content into a broken hame... Well look what they are doing.

    Not amused
     
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  35. JonnE

    JonnE Well-Known Member

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    Well, I think there is a simple reason for that: Both issues are considered major, but not major enough to stop releasing new content... for this the game should be not working at all I suppose.. ;)
     
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  36. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    Matt don’t Care about it, he Never post here about it
     
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  37. Sprinter

    Sprinter Active Member

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    Hope this mess gets fixed soon and that one day TSW will be a better game for all of us.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2021
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  38. pinxtonpaws

    pinxtonpaws Guest

    If you were watching a movie at a cinema and every 30 seconds the picture blurred, would you expect the projectionist to continue screening the movie despite the complaints? Or would you expect him to stop screening until the problem is resolved?

    "Broken" doesn't necessarily mean "not working":cool:
    "Broken can just as easily mean "not performing as intended"
     
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  39. JonnE

    JonnE Well-Known Member

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    I would probably ask for a bit of the directors' medication in that case :D

    Don't get me wrong, these two are both serious issues which are highly annoying.
    And the best time for a fix for those would be yesterday.
    But following that logic, Red Bull - or McLaren - should have left F1 until Honda got their engines right...
    Or I should stop driving my car because the clutch fails to transmit all of the available torque when applying full power and shifting from 3rd to 4th gear...

    I just hope DTGs specialists are on it in a way as their colleagues were for the PS folks. But since they are most likely not in the route building department of DTG I don't have too much of a problem with a BRD release soon.
     
  40. rabid

    rabid Well-Known Member

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    And funnily enough since posting I have gone back to PC at least for now, until the blurries and the audio issues are sorted on Xbox. It’s true they are annoying and you just can’t unsee and unhear them once you’re aware.
     
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  41. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    Good news from the stream
    • Texture problem has an internal fix, if/when they make sure it doesn't break other things it will go live. [Might resolve white flashed as well?]
    • Audio: Really big job which might get fixed in the future hopefully, and might require a full re-download of the game and change it pretty deeply.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2021
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  42. Kobebeef

    Kobebeef Active Member

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    Good news on the cab issues might come sooner than expected, only thing I'm worried about is the sound fix. since it's sounded by Matt's account it will be a big fix required :(
     
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  43. rabid

    rabid Well-Known Member

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    “Might get fixed in the future” is simply not good enough for Xbox customers, whatever the size of the job.
    Just get it done guys, no more excuses.
     
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  44. pinxtonpaws

    pinxtonpaws Guest

    (1) No, they just swop supplliers at the end of contractual periods. Besides, an engine is a single component in a successful F1 car and doesn't even need to be the best on the circuit to prevail.... As Jenson Button (Brawn) and Schumi (Benneton) will happily testify to :cool:

    (2) Yes you should...it might break even more. If you had a bulge in one of your tyres you wouldn't drive it 'til it bursts, would you?

    How comes it's always car analogies?.. Why not washing machines, dog collars or supermarket branded mint humbugs :)
     
  45. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    If they release sub par products with fixes already on the way, like SESH, they said there are these bugs, some of them will get fixed almost immediately after release, others a bit after. I'm perfectly ok with that, but again the problem is that when they launched this update on xbox they had no idea this issue existed, that is the part that needs to change. If before release they said "right, the update on xbox will be delayed or will be shipped with this issue, we are working on a fix" it would have made the whole thing more acceptable.

    This is a special case as we didn't have an option of "not buying it" and we were forced to download an update which broke every route, every train for everyone, so a lot more care is needed for those updates, but regular DLCs it's not a crime against humanity to release it half ready if a fix is already on the way or very close
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2021
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  46. dreampage

    dreampage Well-Known Member

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    I don't expect the sound looping issue to be fixed, it would be too much work for the whole game. I think it will be implemented better in the next product, whenever it comes out (probably next autumn). I just don't see another such deep change coming to TSW 2.
     
  47. pinxtonpaws

    pinxtonpaws Guest

    I get your point but my feeling is you should never ever condone the release of sub-standard products for any reason whatsoever. The industry is already in a massive hole regarding the quality of releases and encouraging developers to continue this practice by implying it's ok so long as it's fixed at a later date only strives to make things worse than it already is. I've been a gamer since 1980 and up until the introduction of live updating (consoles) games generally worked first time, every time....there were no second chances to get it right.
    You can't even blame the size and complexity of games as being a contributing factor because developers (mostly) right their wrongs over a period of time so with that in mind there's nothing (and I mean absolutely nothing) to suggest they couldn't have done that in the first place - just like in the days where they had no choice but to do so.

    Look at Bus Sim 21 for example. Yet another buggy release that gamers are going to have to wait....and wait...and wait 'til it's fixed - with the sad irony being that 6 months down the road when it is of a greater level of acceptability most will be bored of it and will have moved on.

    An experience ruined. Do you really believe that is an ok thing?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 8, 2021
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  48. sVig

    sVig Member

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    What's this audio looping thing? I haven't experienced it myself yet but that's possibly because I turned the game off straight after turning it on after the series X upgrade and the graphics were all outta whack and I haven't turned it on since.
     
  49. dreampage

    dreampage Well-Known Member

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    When a locomotive is at a constant sound (like when you're standing at a station or going at a constant cruise speed) then the audio loop gets buggy and you hear popping, crackling sounds. It's prevalent in basically all routes and locos, some more audible than others, it depends on the locomotive.
     
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  50. bakedpotatos.jm

    bakedpotatos.jm Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure they will fix it but I agree it sounds more like a project to be put through next Summer most likely. It does sound like a big job but Matt made it sound like something he really does want to fix.

    And now that he is Executive Producer he will be able to put his stamp on the game and make it truly what he wants the game to be.

    I look forward to see what TSW2 looks like a year from now.
     
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