Something that has personally bugged me driving UK trains is that when you reset/acknowledge an AWS alarm you automatically raise the DSD (driver safety device or the "dead man's switch") pedal, since they are linked to the same key (Q-key or XBOX B-button). This is especially noticeable (or jarring, if it is an issue for you) with trains that have animated DSD pedals and implemented sound cues. One reason for why this is the case currently in the game could ostensibly be due to accessibility. I don't buy this argument though, because German trains has had the alerter (SIFA) and safety system (PZB) on different keybinds since the inception of TSW and quite early in TSC's life. My suggestion would be that the layout is changed to the following: 1. AWS reset is kept at the same key (Q or B-button) 2. DSD pedal is changed from the same key to the Bell (B on the keyboard). Note: This one seems to be a bit of a game breaker for XBOX (PS?) controllers since you would be forced to use the "classic" control scheme which means that (afaik) you lose buttons for opening and closing the doors. I'd love input from console players here if there is some way to keep both, or if they are willing to lose door-buttons (maybe you can still open the menu and manually select the doors). 3. Some UK trains have the bell-control act as the driver guard buzzer or the depot whistle. On PC my suggestion would be to change this to the "Cylinder Drain Toggle" (C-key) but I don't know how you solve it on consoles. There are obviously compromises that you have to make implementing this new system (until/if DTG implements a setting where you can choose if you want to divide up the controls or not) so please keep this in mind when voting. EDIT driverwoods#1787 gave me the idea to enlarge the poll (which kind of breaks it unfortunately). Rather than having the input described above another option would be: 1. Leave the DSD pedal on the current key (the "Alerter" input). 2. Move the AWS reset button to the same key as PZB Acknowledge. The benefit of this layout is obviously consistency between UK and German safety systems but the downside is that people would have to relearn the habit of pressing Q (or the console counterpart) for AWS. Further note: This poll or thread is not affiliated with DTG in any way. I'm just interested in the opinions of the community.
Old Layout because AWS and DSD are much simpler than an Austrian and German PZB Sifa system which the B button on the console platform and sets off Zugsbeeinflussung for Consoles for Sifa Reset
On PS5 DSD pedal/PZB acknowledge could be mapped to SQUARE (control shift) and D-Pad Up as I don't believe this is currently used for anything. SQ+D right is PZB release, +D left is PZB override and +D down is sand. This would be useful too in that CIRCLE could then be a dedicated AWS/SIFA button, currently on some trains it's a dual function for AWS & DSD/SIFA & PZB acknowledge which can be annoying in S-bahn EMUs and Dostos for example as you also get the PZB ack beep when simply satisfying the SIFA. Looking at the corresponding buttons on an Xbox controller the control shift button should be X+D-Pad though having never played it on that console I'm happy to be corrected.
I would like to ideally likely to see them continue to implement “smart acknowledgement” for this in order not to hear the deadman’s pedal when acknowledging AWS, as the Xbox control options are limited enough that I would rather they use the other available buttons for something not already comfortably in place.
could the x button not be used for dsd? it doesn’t really have any use other than pressing it with the joystick to get a varied tone horn
Personally I would like to see the same layout as TSC. ‘Q’ for the AWS and ‘E’ for the DSD. I’d like to see the stand up / sit down button remapped to something more appropriate. I can’t tell you how annoying it is to come from TSC into TSW and spend the first hour standing up every time the DSD goes off!
100% keep it the same for consoles. Have it separate on keyboard if that’s possible but for the controller both really need to be instantly accessible on a button that is just ‘there’ and the circle on PS controllers is the most accessible button there is. I’ve never seen it as an issue to be honest. Assuming that’s the equivalent of the square button on PS it is already used to cycle through the brake types.
Hi, I like having the two buttons on different keys. On my keyboard (if taking into account the "QWERTY" layout) I have the DSD/vigilance reset on A and AWS reset on caps lock. The throttle up is Q and throttle down is D. So with my left hand I can control everything at once, which is perfect. Even better, the PZB Acknowledge is on caps lock too so this key really is the "safety acknowledge" button for me. And the SIFA on the A, like the DSD/vigilance reset. So this is pretty standard to me. I do not like at all having AWS and DSD/vigilance on the same key, this is unrealistic. I don't know why but on the Class 395 Javelin the TPWS brake demand is on the same key as the DSD, which is plain wrong and can't be changed. Thanks for you poll and your work on the Class 158, that's really great to have such feedback and interest
I feel like this poll is more “what peripheral do you use to play”. RD & KB will find no issue with this, whereas controller users will get a massive inconvenience.
As xbxx user, leave it as it is, the system is so simple I don't mind rising my foot in case of aws alarm . We don't need finger yoga in case of double activation Intead add the bell/buzzer to gamepad button.
I use keyboard on PC but not really bothered about them being on the same key, I’m happy to keep it the same as it is now.
Keep as is with those options, but, please..... Just let us rebind the controls, DTG!!!! I truly don't understand why there seems to be no interest in the solution that would make everyone happy. Then, i might even be able to have the bell and PZB release on the d-pad instead of the reverser which i literally never use (and which isn't awkward to find/use in the cab like the bell can be).
I have been experimenting with a new control system on the Class 158 that I think will make the most number of people (on all systems) happy. 1. Keep the DSD pedal on the Alerter input (same as currently on all systems). 2. Changed the AWS Reset to the same input as PZB Acknowledged (bear with me). 3 (a). If Vigilance is disabled then the input (actual physical movement) of the AWS Reset button is linked to the DSD pedal which means that both the DSD pedal and the AWS reset button will move correspondingly to input and make sounds and the logic remains the same, i.e. pressing the "old key" will acknowledge vigilance and reset the AWS alarm. 3 (b). If Vigilance is enabled then the output (the resulting logic action) of the AWS Reset button is linked to the DSD pedal which means that if you press the DSD pedal key then the DSD pedal will move and make a sound but the AWS Reset button remains fixed. However, the AWS reset action still occurs. That is, pressing the DSD pedal key (old button that worked on both DSD and AWS) will acknowledge/reset both systems but only the DSD pedal is animated and sounding. What this all means is that if you have both AWS and Vigilance enabled then you can still press only one button if you want, and all systems will respond correctly, but if you only get animation and sound from the DSD pedal. If you want the AWS Reset button to move/make sound then you press PZB Acknowledge. If you only want to run with AWS then the buttons behave in the old way. It would be much easier to explain with a video. I might upload one later if I can make it not divulge NDA protected information and I get permission. EDIT: There is definitely room for tweaking so I'm happy to hear feedback. Also, unfortunately changing the actual keys is a core change that I have no control of.
Sorry to say this, but I’m not a fan. If I understood you correctly, running with all safety systems on consoles (without a keyboard) means that AWS is no longer animated, which is unacceptable to my mind. If you can’t find a separate control on a controller, leave both assigned to the same button and maybe look into the smart-PZB-logic that came around some time ago.
I'm not aware of this smart-PZB-logic. Do you mean that an analogous smart-AWS-logic would only move the AWS button when there is an AWS horn sounding? I don't personally want the DSD pedal to only move if there is a vigilance alarm sounding. That would be a regression in my opinion. What about any of these two options? 1. Both AWS and vigilance on the same key (both are animated and have sound) and AWS is also on the PZB Acknowledge input (i.e. if you want to use a single key it is identical in behaviour to the old system, but you have the option to split it up). 2. Both AWS and vigilance on the same key but AWS is only animated/sounding when there is an AWS warning horn sounding. DSD is always animated and sounding (so you get either both AWS and DSD pedal or only DSD pedal depending on the AWS state).
I think you should just leave what works alone (not to sound harsh). The way it’s currently supposed to work is just the best of a lot of non preferable options, there isn’t really a way of making this work any better (unless you remap the entire control scheme). Any changes made would just be (again, not to sound rude) for the sake of meddling. It’s worked perfectly fine for 5+ years, no point changing it now, unless you’d be improving the user experience (which no matter which option you go with, you wouldn’t be). The best solution? Allow players to remap their controls.
Well, don't know if this is helpful but I play with an RailDriver and an USB foot pedal (that, when pushed, triggers the key "q") and the "German PZB variant" would be the best for me. Foot pedal with keyboard q, DSD with Alert-Button on RD
I'm sure you can already rebind it on PC as I have for BCC to stop the annoying beep from the vigilance when acknoledging AWS. works great on BCC, breaks every other route it seems. I've mapped Q to AWS (as it was) and the key above tab to left of '1' to vigilance. All other routes seem to have the mapped backwards which makes it very hard to drive without having to change the setting every time.
[rant] The whole controls system needs a complete rewrite, it's fundamentally broken/cater to controllers only. It's driving me nuts, and makes people have to rely on third party bandaid software on top of obsolete implementations og legacy controllers. It's a shame, and it's lazy programming. [/rant]
I appreciate all the feedback! Obviously the top priority for something as important as control of the safety systems is to not make it worse. I definitely hear what has been said about consoles (again, making it worse for like 2/3rds of the player base is unacceptable), but I also interpret the poll results as many people wanting either some way to individually control the two systems (Vigilance and AWS) or having an implementation where only the relevant control is acting. The reason why I started this thread is because I am in the latter group (I'd like individual control or if not possible I want only the relevant control to act). Best thing (as has been pointed out above) is for DTG to allow remapping of inputs, but I think in the mean time there are some options that could improve the system for many while not making it worse for the rest.
It’s the system that started with DRA. The corresponding button on controllers always acknowledges SIFA but only acknowledges PZB if there’s a reason to, i.e. you just passed an active 1000Hz magnet. You could implement a similar solution for the UK in which the vigilance pedal is always operated but the AWS reset only if appropriate. I don’t see any reason not to put the AWS reset on the PZB acknowledge button as well. It would only add more options. So essentially the smart PZB logic? I’d be fine with that. Personally, I think it’s a bit overboard for UK stuff since the AWS reset doesn’t shout at you the way PZB does, but that would work if it’s worth the pay-off to your mind.
Maybe I am missing the point, but isn't what you are advocating already implemented at least on the Southeastern High Speed Extended Version of the BR Class 465/9 Networker? There is one entry (default "Q") called "Alerter / DSD Reset" and another entry (also default "Q") called "AWS Reset". I changed the "Alerter / DSD Reset" to "Caps Lock" (video) and am quite happy with it. Why can't we have it like this on all British trains?
