Inspiration For The Dtg Dev Team On Improving Real World Lighting

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by HeyYoPaulie!, Mar 16, 2021.

  1. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    They're not only fixing bugs caused by the port, they're also fixing a bunch of olds bugs from the original release. Like the M3 was a buggy mess from the beginning, for example. The ATC on the whole route is not working properly and it's still not getting fixed. And the list could go on.

    If you really think that the Preserved Collection is a "gift", then you obviously weren't here when TSW2 originally got announced and all the backlash it caused when they told us all the old routes will be forgotten.

    Have to agree with Jinoss. If you really look at this as a gift from the gods themselves, then your standards must be really low. I won't shame you for that, I'm happy that you enjoy the things the way they are, but without the Preserved Collection, TSW2 would've been nothing but a rip-off.

    Also I still don't get where you get the "it's free stuff" idea from. These DLCs are still being sold for money, both for TSW and TSW2. There is nothing free about them. Though if you really think that it would be completely acceptable if they charged you for the same route twice, both for TSW and for TSW2, well... then sorry but your standards are really low and you would really deserve to be charged twice for the same thing.
     
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  2. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Have you ever had any connection with the business world? It doesn't appear so.

    And I think your standards are that of an entitled Karen, who has been demanding to speak to the manager for months now because her salad didn't have enough croutons.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2021
  3. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Preserved Collection is not free. It's $29.99 for routes and $19.99 for trains for new players so why are you saying it's free? TSW2020 is still being sold for money. It's not free. Preserved collection is not a gift from the gods because if it was, it probably would be free

    Also If I am spending my money on this game, I expect (and some others as well)dtg to use that money to improve the game and the code. Not just release dlc after DLC and not make improvements to the game and release buggy content as is and fix it months later.

    I think your standards are very low which is 100% fine. But don't say people are whining when they expect improvements to the game that they spend money on.
     
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  4. Jinoss17

    Jinoss17 Well-Known Member

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    Standing ovation.
     
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  5. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Well then go ahead and pay for the same thing twice, I won't stop you, man.

    But even DTG themselves admitted that the initial TSW2 situation was disappointing. Go back and watch the original TSW2 announcement streams. Or just read the quote from my signature, which sums up pretty well what the original situation was like.
     
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  6. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Why Thank You :)
     
  7. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, I'm just not used to being ripped-off, I'm not a console player.

    (PS.: that was a joke, don't take it seriously, but I had to, lol.)
     
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  8. Jinoss17

    Jinoss17 Well-Known Member

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    Because you've expressed exactly my concept :D
     
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  9. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Correct. They did not want to charge for TSW2. They did so reluctantly. They really wanted it to be a free update as has been the practice with TS Classic.

    But it simply was not possible.

    Again- have you ever worked in the business world? There is only so much any business can invest in anything without being forced to cover its costs. TSW2 just proved too big and expensive a project to give away. But then, they turned around and gave away the Preserved Collection- which cost them time and money to make. Time and money which they have not asked you to reimburse them for.

    Assassin's Creed II is still being sold for money, but I don't see Ubisoft upgrading it to Valhalla standards at no charge. We will soon be seeing a next-gen remastered release of Mass Effect- which EA are most definitely not giving away free to those who own it for 360 and PS3!

    For any and all owners of TSW2020 content, yes, the Preserved Collection is free.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2021
  10. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    If the game was free then my standards would be much lower. But this isn't openbve where you can get content for free so that's why when I spend $30 on content or $24.99 for tsw2 and $49.99 on tsw2020 collectors edition, I expect improvements.
     
  11. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Ripped off? For being charged the price of one route DLC, for three routes plus a new game engine?
     
  12. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    But for new players, it's not so please don't say preserved collection is free. Also if it really was a gift fro gods, then maybe it wouldn't have come with clear as day bugs
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2021
  13. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    You do realize he said it was a joke. It's not a new game engine either, it's just an updated version of the same engine. Also it's two new routes if you are on pc. Three on console. I wouldn't call SPG a new route personally
     
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  14. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Well duh. What other surprising news do you have- are you going to reveal that the Pope is secretly a Catholic?
     
  15. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Yay, I only have to buy the game twice to be able to get bugfixes for obvious bugs that shouldn't have been in the release to begin with. Man I sure do love free content!

    Again, fixing issues and bugs in your software is not called free content. It's called support, and kind of expected.
     
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  16. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I am a atheist so don't care about the pope
     
  17. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Especially when content costs $20-$30 you expect support or some form of improvements over time to improve said content like most other game companies do
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2021
  18. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    I think Dinosbacsi has put a lot of our thoughts into words much better than we could. Thank you.

    I understand that DTG's focus is on TSW2, but they're fixing bugs right now that shouldn't have existed in the first place, and only in the new game. It means that if I wanted to play a broken piece of DLC or a broken scenario, I'd have to buy the game again entirely to be able to actually play the route, train or scenario as it was intended. And remember, routes for TSW and TSW2 cost the same as the game itself, so having to pay up to twice what you paid originally to get the thing to actually work properly is an absolute rip-off. If a larger studio was doing this, they would be torn to shreds in an instant. #Dovefail would be trending on social media, Internet Historian would have made a video called 'The Enbaddening Of Train Sim World 2' and there would be several lawsuits waiting on DTG's doorstep..
    Except that Sam (or Matt, it was a long time ago) said that TSW2 could have been a free update like past upgrades.
     
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  19. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    #Dovefail for some preserved collection routes when they came out with bugs that could've been avoided.

    And yes they did say that tsw2 could've been a free update. TSW2 was effectively an update to tsw2020 but in a separate package. They did try to advertise this game as a new game but it really was not and I'm sure someone at dtg had a brain to realize that it was more of a update with some new improvements. Maybe that's why Matt and Sam felt bad that players had to pay for a update to get continuing support and some buggy preserved collection routes when they came out. If not tsw2020 was not gonna get continuing support and players were stuck playing a game that would be no longer be supported.

    With the QA process being improved and higher release standards coming in the future hopefully that will mean clear as day bugs won't get released and quality of content will be consistent across the board
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2021
  20. skyMutt

    skyMutt Well-Known Member

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    I do feel as though there's some misunderstanding going on throughout these posts. With all the numerous changes that went into developing TSW2, it had reached a point where it could effectively be regarded as a major update. I genuinely don't understand why the decision to charge for TSW2 was soo controversial, when you can draw fair comparisons with other games that did the same thing. What about FIFA or COD? You and I know it's just an iterative upgrade, but it's fair to call TSW2 a separate game...a separate title. My PS4 sure doesn't think that TSW2 is the same as TSW2020. They're two separate launchable items. Two games. Ones newer than the other, and is the most up to date and upgraded. It really is not that different when compared to something like COD Cold War & COD Warzone. Its the exact same premise.

    We can go on all day about whether it's wrong for a company to cut support, or lag behind in bug fixes, but in retrospect? It sure could have been a lot worse. At the end of the day I'm still satisfied that the LIRR, a route I bought years ago, is now getting some TLC. They could have left it how it was, or restore it to its original condition, and that would have been perfectly fine. However it's being brought forward with new tech and features that didn't even exist when the LIRR was first released, and that to me is a really sweet deal and definitely makes up for the long wait. Plenty of other routes are also getting the same treatment as well, all at no extra cost.
    Maybe it's just me, but when I buy a route, I buy it for what its like now, rather than buying it based on the promise of future updates. This applies to many things beyond TSW itself, but the fact that we're getting these updates feels more like a show of generosity rather than product support, hell maybe it's both. They didn't have to throw in all the cool extra stuff along with the bug fixes.

    I can't say that I have the exact figures, but I'm willing to bet that there are very few customers that decided to stick with TSW2020 and not upgrade to TSW2, and by all means this transition was hard but it was necessary in moving the game forward.
    Is there any malice behind it, withholding these updates behind a 'paywall'? I argue that it's not really even a paywall when the vast majority of players already own both products anyways, so really who is missing out on this? Maybe like 3 guys? :D
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2021
  21. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    Because only once before have we had to pay for an upgrade for a DTG train simulator, that being the upgrade from Rail Simulator to RailWorks. Ever since 2009, we have received free engine upgrades every year, and we have grown used to it for very good reason.
     
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  22. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    One of the reasons for the paid upgrade was partially DTG’s fault, as they were reluctant to update the version of UE4 TSW 1 used. They were several versions behind (and still are) so when they finally did update it, it was a big job and the jump between the versions. 4.16 to 4.23.

    This meant that when they upgraded the engine was a massive hassle, and subsequently broke things, as they had left the upgrade for so long. This is the reason TSW 2 is a paid update, as it required a lot of labour and time.

    I hope they’ve learnt from their past mistakes and upgrade the engine more regularly, or at least when major improvements to the engine are made.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2021
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  23. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    Wow, this degenerated into another useless thread.
     
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  24. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I've gotten used to the free train simulator updates as well
     
  25. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    And hopefully with the next update to 4.26, they will actually get to improving the night time lighting. It should've been improved when they went to version 4.23 in my opinion. Also, I do hope they do update to newer versions regularly so they don't have to do massive work upgrading the game and maybe tsw2 will be in ue5 in like 5-7 years or something. I also hope that they don't advertise what is effectively an update to a older game that's in a seperate package as a new game
     

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