One of the problems I have driving something like a Class 47 or Class 37 is getting the amount of braking right so as not to slow down to much or worst case scenario come to a complete stop when using the train brakes. I have found that braking whilst keeping the throttle pinned even at full power helps because once you release the brakes the loco in theory shouldn’t loose to much speed because the loco is immediately accelerating. Is this an acceptable way to drive in both real life or in TSW3 or will doing this ultimately wear out the brakes? I’m guessing it’s not acceptable and is bad practice?
Definitely bad practice. In the US (more in the past than currently) it was common to "stretch brake" where you bail off the locomotive brakes and apply some power. However, this power level was never full throttle, that is a big no-no. In the UK I think such a practice is even more rare (or forbidden entirely) especially since many locomotives don't have a "bail-off" function. I'm not too familiar with UK practices though so hopefully someone can give input. My advice would be to practice how long the stopping distance is for your train, for some level of braking and then try to apply that in these scenarios.
Yep I thought so. I will put myself into a few hours detention as punishment and cease doing this forthwith and drive properly.
Some other advice if you want to drive older locomotives. When you’re throttling down, always put throttle to the ‘on’ position and let the amps drop low before shuttle to off. This saves unnecessary engine wear/damage.
There are specific scenarios when you might want to do it. In particular when connecting loco to the wagons - you don't want to bounce off them, so a little bit of throttle together with little bit of loco (direct) brake makes it way easier to touch the wagon and press the buffers together, which in return makes coupling the screwlink much easier. Doing that in speed of course increases the wear and tear of the brakes (and worse, warms them up, which is very dangerous condition) and often is not realistically possible - you can usually technically use the loco brake, but it will not do much when countered by the weight of the train. Using train (indirect) brake does not work either, because most of the time there is a throttle lock-out tied to it, as a safety mechanism: in emergency you might not have time to reset throttle lever, so applying train brake often cuts out throttle automatically for that safety reason.
Yep. For anybody interested: In my diesel freight driver experience on the Nene Valley Railway, I was told to let the amps on a Class 45 drop below 1000 at least before shutting off the throttle.
I have used this technique on US freight to keep moving without releasing then having to reapply the brakes, both in TSW and Run 8.
I think it's more about how you want to drive. This is just a game after all, the brakes aren't gonna wear out neither is the engine. I often apply the loco brake a little to control my speed, people say in the real world this would cause a derailment, but you don't see American trains derailing everytime the dynamic brakes are applied but again this is not the real world.
I have never quite understood the American obsession with bailing off the loco brakes. You can’t even do it on UK or (AFAIK) European loco hauled trains. The weight of the loco applies a significant amount of brake force to get and keep the train under control. Even in Run 8, half the time I either forget to or simply don’t bother releasing the loco brakes, even when using dynamics, and I haven’t had a derailment yet. In fact, the US freight brakes in TSW are so weak, you absolutely need to keep the loco straight air brake applied even when using dynamics.
Bailing off the loco brakes when stopping is part of stretching the consist out so all the couplers are at their stretched distance. That way when you release the brakes to get going again you dont have floaty wagons drifting and snatching (or falling down the grade in the opposite direction for a moment and then snatching for massively more force on the couplers for a moment). It's not important in most sims because coupler breakage isnt simulated (including TSW) so whether you do it or not is up to you - but thats why they do it in reality.
I think bailing off is only necessary because of the length/weight of some of those American freight trains. If we had the same in the UK they would occupy 3 counties.
Is it because they don't use buffers? I know on UK trains you will take up the slack and rest the 2 cars on the buffers whereas in the US all the tension is put on the coupling I guess.
Do you (or anyone else) have more information on how exactly they stop trains in the US? I get the bailing-off to stretch the train, but at what point do they stop applying power (or do they keep power applied till the train stops dead)? Are the locos just idling then or do they apply the independent brake at some point to mimic the reduction in the brake pipe?
To some extent in the US, it is also offset by the DPU's. I know from when I tried to emulate the famous Bakersfield Oil Cans in Run 8, I had to fine tune where I put the DPU loco's in the consist as I was pulling couplers out on the hill and on at least one occasion stringlined the train. So I did wonder if that also affects the braking, as you will be bailing your lead loco brakes but not those on the DPU's. And yes, I did eventually make it down into LA, some 10 hours after leaving Bakersfield, not in the same session of course! I have also found when switching in Run 8, it is often more advantageous to use the loco brake rather than the train brake, especially on shorter consists or rakes of wagons.
Oh I use the loco brake all the time when switching, far quicker and easier than worrying about the train brake. In reality yes the position of power and braking matters in terms of how much force is ever put on a single coupler. Another reason to bail the loco brakes off is that you will be putting a load of brake force at the front of the train or at specific points in the train - where really you want the cars to just stop themselves, otherwise you can have things running into each other and pushing the train off the track potentially. They don't need buffers - the couplings themselves have the stretchiness and force absorption of buffers. Bailing when stopping is much more about starting with stretched couplers to avoid snatching and broken couplings. Matt.
A place I used to work many years ago, we rarely even bothered connecting the brake pipes when shunting in the yard, used loco brake only. I think the only time we bothered was when pushing the wagons across a level crossing but that was totally against the rules. Was always ment to pull across the crossing not push.
Dave has it: when shunting they don't usually bother hooking up the air lines - which would slow things down tremendously - so there really isn't a train brake to apply! And at shunting speeds, loco brake is plenty.
Hmmm- one of the principal reasons for baling off is precisely so that the dynamics can do their work. This isn't a factor with UK locos, since apparently the British regard dynamic brakes as some sort of Popish plot to conceive the death of the King and won't consider them- even on the classes 59 and 66, basically SD40s! It may be, Vern, that the reason you perceive American brakes as "weak" is precisely because you aren't baling off, which reduces the dynamics to uselessness.
This is really interesting. I had always assumed that couplers compressed when stopping, and that's how those freight trains were able to start moving again--because they were pulling only one more car at a time while they got up to speed. So those locos are actually powerful enough to pull the entire weight of the train from a full stop?
Yes, they have to be incase anything comes up taht makes them stop unexpectedly anyway tbh. They also have to ensure there's enough weight sitting on that power to give it enough grip to do so in the weather conditions that might crop up. Now - they might only give them enough power to manage about 8 mph on the steep bits in some cases but.. there's "enough" power
Actually, you almost always want to have your train stretched when stopped. When you start a bunched up train, your loco can get to a significant speed before rear car starts to move, so at the end of your train cars will be yanked from 0 straight to several miles per hour, which can easily break couplings. So, if your train is bunched up, you have to start veeeery slowly and crawl at minimum speed until rear car starts to move. You should only begin accelerating, when your last car is in motion. And if we get back to the topic of having power together with brakes, it is possible in some situations. One reason to do it, as mentioned before, is to stretch train before stopping. Another reason (again, mentioned before) is to not release brakes when descend grade temporarily gets more shallow. Beside that, you sometimes need to have power and brakes together, when cresting hills. For example, here's a quote from CSX service timetable that describes how to go through the tunnel at Sand Patch Grade: "As train crests grade continue to use power and make an initial application of 5-7 PSI between 20 to 22 MPH. Then gradually reduce throttle and apply dynamic brake in such a manner to have speed between 25 and 30 MPH, passing BF208." So, in this case you have to first apply air brakes, and only then gradually reduce power trying to keep correct speed.
