Hi everyone, As in the title, I have a question: is it possible to drive ICE 1 and ICE 3 with LZB de-activated on SKW route? I'm asking, because driving ICE trains there with LZB activated seems to me quite boring (it's like being passenger with the best view seat honestly) so to keep my attention I would like to run it with LZB off, but I'm not sure if it is possible? I guess I cannot rely on the visual signals/signs (are there any?) and also there is no system like TVM to warn me about speed limit/signal change incoming?
Yes, you can. You are only allowed to drive 160kph and, in my experience, the partial LZB block is somehow not correctly modelled on SKW. What happens is that you can still spad when a partial block is blocked, as the main signal would indicate HP1 (green, but in dark mode...). In real life this would obviously not happen, as the signal would show HP0 (red), as long as not all partial blocks are clear. Sorry, it all sounds a bit cryptic. You need to be familiar with partial blocks, dark mode on signals and how all this works together... Feel free to ask if it is not clear...
I run with LZB but still control the train myself. I don’t enable AFB at all. Even with AFB enabled it shouldn’t be used to let the train control its own speed, the driver should be doing that anyway. When doing it properly it isn’t like being a passenger with a good view as the train is fully under your own control and LZB is just signalling. There’s no need to drive right up at the speed limits and there is enough time for gentle acceleration and braking and a good margin to maintain a smooth and safe run for your passengers.
Well if it's working together with LZB it's very common i think, to let the train brake and accelarate by itself. But if you use it without LZB, then you're right. Normally you don't use the AFB to break.
Well, LZB is the "system like TVM to warn me about speed limit/signal change incoming". So with LZB disabled, nope.
Which is not correct. All German LZB routes have PZB installed as a backup. Operationally, I agree, its not as easy, as you can not just do what you want, as, for example, max speed would drop to 160kph, however, it is possible.
PZB doesn't warn you about signals or speed restrictions. It just enforces you to acknowledge any signals and signs that give you restrictions. PZB doesn't give you any extra info. You'd be relying on signals and signs for the info. If you want to be realistic, yes, but the game doesn't prevent you from going above 160km/h with LZB disabled.
Correct, this is how it is supposed to work irl as well, as you would have track side signals going along with it. That is why on SKW block distance would be increased to 16km and max speed is limited to 160kph. It is only meant as a backup. Also, as mentioned in my very first post in this thread, dark mode will not be disabled when you switch off LZB, as it would be in real life, basically making it very diffictult to drive correctly without LZB on SKW in game.
I only use LZB to allow me to get to higher speeds but I never use AFB to control the train as it would be unrealistic and boring. If you just have LZB on and no AFB it's rather like driving with a more sophisticated version of TVM.
Well AFB is not unrealistic to control the train; most drivers just don’t do it since it’s more rough than breaking normally. What I wonder though is: If the LZB slows down from 250 to 220; should I break the train manually or let the LZB do it’s thing?
I'd lean to the side of manual braking to achieve a smoother deceleration. Otherwise you are letting AFB drive
Hi OpenMinded, well, if you have the explanation for both what is dark mode on signals, partial blocks and how these two are working together somewhere at your hand I would appreciate if you could share it, as both those expressions are new two me and I'm completely not familiar with it Hi stujoy Your answer made me think if I actually know anything about AFB and pointed me out in a direction of searching some info about it. I've found very interesting thread, placing it here for anyone who could also be lacking knowledge about it: https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/thinking-of-learning-how-to-use-afb.40733/ So, I'll try driving both ICEs with and without AFB turned on and will check what suits me better
Absolutely The way I was told by rw drivers and people who design those systems (which I am not...): Basically, and in a nutshell, when the route was build as first real high speed line in Germany, they were looking for ways to save money. Hence, they came up with the idea to save the lineside signalling, as LZB is an in cab signalling system. However, they needed a backup, in case LZB would fail. Obviously this would have to be PZB with its lineside signals. But, in order to generate savings, they did not install the same amount of signals, as they had blocks on the route. In fact, the basic architecture of the route is a LZB block distance of every 4km (indicated by a LZB block sign next to the route: white square with some numbers in a black circle). Obviously those signals are only displayed in the cab. No signals (other then the LZB block sign) along the route. For the backup, every 16km (so, every 4 LZB blocks), there would be a lineside signal, with its PZB equipment. In reallity this is a bit more complicated, as you will find stations along the route, which also have signals protecting the entry and the exit of this station, as well as transfer points, which are also protected by signals plus PZB. However, to keep it simple, we are only looking at the basic architecture of the route. As said, the lineside signals are protecting a 16km stretch, while LZB a 4km stretch. For safety reasons, both systems work alongside each other, however, both are controlled by completely independant systems. Again, the lineside signals are showing red, as long as a train is in the 16km stretch ahead. However, if the train ahead has already passed into the next LZB block, the LZB block is indicated as being clear, while the lineside signal would still show a red. As the lineside signal is protected by a different technology then LZB, it can not just been taken over by LZB, to make it show a green aspect. Instead, the designers at the time came up with the technical solution to simply switch the red lights off during this case. Hence, the dark mode was invented In reallity, this dark mode should only happen in two instances: a LZB guided train has entered the block in front of the linesight signal, and another train is in one of the LZB blocks after the first block of the linesight signal. If first train is still in the first block after the lineside signal, it would show red, if it has passed the next lineside signal 16km down the light, it would show a green aspect. When a train with no LZB equipment enters the line, there will be no signal send to the lineside signal to turn itself off, hence, it is valid for a PZB only train. There are some more quirks to the system, which I dont believe make any difference on SKW or are not simulated (ie irl speed restrictions on signals are usually turned off when the train is guided by LZB...). Dark mode is also a thing on ETCS in Germany, however, the rules are slightly different and not relevant to SKW either. Hope this helps and does not confuse even more
Wow, thank you so much for explaining dark mode and partial blocks is such details OpenMinded ! I find it really cool how German engineers have implemented this dark mode on signals for LZB and PZB co-existence, simple, but effective solution. German signalling and safety systems are fascinating, although I also love British signalling and safety systems for their simplicity (bare in mind that I know it only from TSW, so if in real life it is more complex then pardon my ignorance ) It's a shame that we have only one French route in TSW, as their signalling/safety systems also looks quite complex and could be a nice challenge to learn.
