Is That It Then?

Discussion in 'PlayStation Discussion' started by derailed#9363, Oct 16, 2021.

  1. derailed#9363

    derailed#9363 Member

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    I just wanted to find out if DTG have officially said that the last gen consoles will not receive any layers for BML?

    I remember Matt saying that they were investigating ways to make this possible in the 1st BML stream.
     
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  2. Trainiac

    Trainiac Well-Known Member

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    If there was a way to add layers it would require a lot of optimism for the game so I suspect if there were to be an update it would be a while from now
     
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  3. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    They said they'd like to bring them, and were continuing to look at it - I don't think they ever gave a definitive 'no', but I wouldn't hold your breath.
     
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  4. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    Based on the performance of BML on PS5, I can’t ever see last gen consoles getting the added layers. That is unless DTG can do some serious optimisation. Since UE 4.26 and the specific PS5 version, I’ve had stutters and poor performance on pretty much every route. I’ve also had a crash on MSB, which I reported in a separate post on the technical forums.
     
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  5. davebadger#4587

    davebadger#4587 Member

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    It does seem to be one step forward and two back. Bml was running nicely on my series x. Then the update comes out last week and now its massive framerate stutters, spawning miles away from the train and crashes to desktop
     
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  6. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    So I should skip the PS5 and wait for the PS6? :D

    I'm still confused about layers. Specifically because Dresden keeps getting extra layers. They wrote a new timetable for PS4 and left the original timetable in. I bought the DB 187 and to my big surprise if you use the ICE timetable the DB187 becomes a new layer on Dresden. I drove it on Dresden and my PS4 did not explode nor did the performance differ.
     
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  7. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    Nah, PS6 Pro.

    Maybe the PS4 was exploding, but the fps was so low you didn't get the full effect. :D
     
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  8. derailed#9363

    derailed#9363 Member

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    Thanks for the comments guys.

    As I’ve said before it’s interesting how the Dresden route got 7 trains and can run somewhat decent on last gen.

    But on the BML for last gen it can only handle 2 trains… I really feel they could of added the Class 66 & 375. Either as extra layers or apart of the route.

    In my opinion those two Trains I named should of definitely been available for last gen if nothing else.

    Based on the fact the class 375 is very similar to the 377 (part of the electrostar family) and when heading/leaving Victoria you would see the 375. For the Class 66 you would naturally see the 66 when on the BML because that’s a freight train.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2021
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  9. Nielsen

    Nielsen Well-Known Member

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    On a stream Matt said the old consoles didn’t get the extra layers on BML due to “the nature of the route”. I wonder what exactly he means by this.
     
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  10. kekanha#4892

    kekanha#4892 Active Member

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    I think they go tolaunch another TSW, maybe it's called TSW 3, I don't know. I see them too hurried with the latest releases and I think that "add layers and multiplayer" will be some of the excuses to make us spend more money. I Hope i was wrong, but everithig tell me they go to Lunch a new game.
     
  11. Dinger75

    Dinger75 Active Member

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    Probably means that the route itself is more memory intensive than other routes to the point that loading just one more train type into system memory makes the game fall over.

    Considering just how ofter BML crashes the game its almost certainly the case
     
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  12. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    Yup, I really wonder what that is too. I do get that the trains themselves take a lot of memory and a lot of them taxes the memory and the timetable is huge. But looking at Dresden you can even add trains and expand the timetables and I don't feel the gameplay getting worse by adding more trains.
     
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  13. Nielsen

    Nielsen Well-Known Member

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    That much is obvious, but like mentioned above it’s hard to see what makes it so different to the Dresden route, which has layers for S-Bahn, regional, intercity, intercity express, freight and chemical plant shunting (6 in total). Additionally there are more unique trains when you factor in the substitute locomotives on freight services. Matt mentioned that memory is predominatnly concerned with the number of unique train models, and not how many instances there are of each train. Going by that logic it seemingly isn’t decisive that there are more than 1200 services across the two layers currently in the 8th generation version of BML.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2021
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  14. jimnicebutdimm

    jimnicebutdimm Member

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    From what's been said about the stream happening on this coming Tuesday (it's not a route map stream but a "State of the Game" stream), I suspect there's possibility we may find out more then.
     
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  15. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    Let's say a service is an hour. How many trains will be on the route during that service? This depends on the hour I'm doing the service, so at rush hour and the least busiest hour? How many trains are involved? On the PS4 we know it can only be 2 different trains models on London Commuter. How many of them will we actually get to see and are useful for the immersion of having a busy schedule? Same question for Dresden.
     
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  16. Dinger75

    Dinger75 Active Member

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    I think we are talking about two separate things here. When I am talking about memory footprint for the route I mean minus the trains.

    BML almost certainly has a larger memory footprint than Dresden, which could be because a number of factors. Longer route, more signals, more unique map assets.

    So before the trains are brought into the equation its already pushing the systems memory limits. When you then starting adding different train types the memory footprint increases further.

    Now if each train is around 250mb each, you will be able to get fewer train types into the system memory if you were already pushing the system limits with the map itself to begin with.

    The number of individual services are irrelevant as each service won't take 250mb each. It just recalls and uses the same asset from memory when needed. A quick explanation is that one train type with 2000 services will take up a lot less memory than 10 different train types running only one service each
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2021
  17. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    It’s not just trains you see that are useful for immersion. A train travelling ahead of you on the line slowing you down at signals is just as important but you may never see it, or any trains that are holding that train up ahead of it. It’s the complexity of the timetable as a whole that adds to the immersion. At any point in a service you can give up the train and jump on another going in the opposite direction and see more of the trains. It doesn’t really matter how many you can see at any one time they are all there making the timetable what it is.
     
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  18. derailed#9363

    derailed#9363 Member

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    I’ve heard that the amount of services don’t affect the route.

    I find that interesting because, it just doesn’t add up. Are you seriously going to tell me if you decrease 1,000 services to 50 services with 4 different trains on BML that won’t effect the gameplay?
     
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  19. Dinger75

    Dinger75 Active Member

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    It can but not in the same way as to what is being discussed

    Having more services, especially running during the same play session will almost certainly increase CPU usage as it has to keep track of where the trains are and where they are going.

    If a number of trains are all in the same area, at the same time and viewable by the player then the GPU usage will increase as it has to draw all the assets on screen

    The layer issue here though is very much a memory issue rather than CPU or GPU related
     
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  20. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    I understand what you mean but in the example you give the train does not have to be there "physically" you just need the signal to turn to have that illusion of another train making you slowdown.
     
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  21. toffski#8424

    toffski#8424 New Member

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    To be honest, I’d rather be able to play the game as it is without such serious stuttering and poor FPS before even considering extra layers.
     
  22. kekanha#4892

    kekanha#4892 Active Member

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    it is not a memory problem. I have a 1916 play 4, the first 500 GB, and I have a 4 TB external memory, I have 324 games downloaded and ready to play, one of which is TSW 2 with the 43 DLC's, all the game, and I have the same problems as all the people with play 4. since update 146 that is getting worse, but for all, 500 GB play, 1TB, pro, all the same, with more or less DLC. that's why memory is not the problem, sure.
     
  23. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    Memory as in RAM. Not hard drive.
     
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  24. ace

    ace Member

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    I’m not sure about layers either. I just pick a route and drive. Sometimes I choose a different train for a timetable drive. I’ve had very few issues on my routes save for the occasional shutter from streaming the route. I would think there’s only so many trains that can drive a route but I’m not sure nor am I an expert.
     
  25. docsnyder1911

    docsnyder1911 Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. And there are a lot of other routes where you have a train in front of you that breaks you (GWE, MSB, RSN,....). And that routes run with all layers on PS4. Especially on MSB where you pass a freighttrain on the neighbor track about all 2 miles.

    Like I said before solutions would be memory optimization or alternative shorter timtables with all layers for PS4 and Xbox One.

    Sure that would cost DTG something. But a big part of the customers would be very satisfied. And to make your customers satisfied, is not such a bad thing for a company.
     
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  26. docsnyder1911

    docsnyder1911 Well-Known Member

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    It is always possible to do a lot of optimization. For example SPG. We heard over 2 years long, that it needs to much ressorces and that's why it is not possible on PS4. And then with TSW2 it was possible, after they optimized that route.

    So from a technical view it is possible to make the layers happen on PS4.

    Optimization means making the product with smaller software packages. Sure it is not easy to make and it costs something. But technically it is possible.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2021
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  27. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Creative Director Staff Member

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    Please add this question to the selection for Tuesday's stream. We'll give as full an answer as possible.
     
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  28. paulc

    paulc Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure some scenery that you can't ever see could be removed & the route optimised to allow atleast a 66! After all we were told there would be a 66+ some services to run & an 08 (parked up atleast) but sadly us lowly PS4 users have just 2 very similar commuter trains, which is all well & good but the route is badly lacking variety! & I do love my freight!

    BML runs very well on my PS4, Just get some low FPS around London (except when in a scenario for some reason it runs smoothly??).
     
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  29. derailed#9363

    derailed#9363 Member

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    I will always say this.. we need at least the Class 66 & 375
     
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  30. Nielsen

    Nielsen Well-Known Member

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    The real problem on this route is the constant stuttering. FPS seems reasonable for the most part.
     

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