Is The End Of Tsc Coming Into Sight?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by TrainsAreBest, Sep 6, 2022.

  1. TrainsAreBest

    TrainsAreBest Active Member

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    This forum has gone awfully quiet. Many former posters are now active on the TSW forum. TSW3 seems to be well received. Does this mean TSC is running out of track and its buffers are coming into sight?
     
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  2. Nick Y

    Nick Y Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't think so.
    I play both TSC and TSW (on PS4/PS5) and I enjoy both. TSC will most likely stay as my go to sim when I want more routes and stock to play with.
    TSW is ok but it will never get route networks and 3rd parties that are involved in development for TSC (although Just Trains have entered the ring for TSW).

    Even if DTG stopped making TSC, the third party developers would most likely ensure that TSC lives on.
     
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  3. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    It either is, or it isn't. All I can say is that if it is, I won't be moving to TSW. Been there, done that, and it doesn't offer what I want from a train sim, so I'll probably concentrate on flight sim if it comes to that. It's been fun an' all, but it will be a case of so long, and thanks for all the fish from me.
     
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  4. mindenjohn

    mindenjohn Active Member

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    When there’s nothing to say, say nothing.
    If TSW in any or all its forms was the only choice I’ll start knitting.
     
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  5. triznya.andras

    triznya.andras Well-Known Member

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    A lot of people here massively value how the game looks, you "must" have AP enhancement packs or go home.
    On the forums, most people are here to discuss new things or share screenshots, which is an arms race.
    This mindset effectively forces them towards newer engines capable of producing a prettier looking world.

    TS could have a bright future if routes would get upgraded (Jörg did show off a lot of his work earlier this year), and DTG would enter partnership with AP and include some of their solutions in the core game. I don't actually like their skyboxes (too patterny and tryhard) but lighting settings are certainly nice.

    For a new player, trying something older could be a deterrent.

    But I'm sure DTG would rather move on, the engine is certainly old, released to players 15 years ago. Not easy to find developers.

    I'm afraid that many of us have large collections and selling DLC for TSC is tough.
    Incompatibility helps the vendor here.
    A subscription model from the get go could have helped all aspects of it.
     
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  6. USRailFan

    USRailFan Active Member

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    If TSC was updated with DX11/12, Vulkan, DLSS/DLAA support, it'd be guaranteed a long future. But there's only so much you can do with a 15 year old DirectX9-based engine. But I doubt it'll die off in the near future.
     
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  7. DTG Jamie

    DTG Jamie Staff Member

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    Don't worry Train Simulator isn't going anywhere, we are hoping to have more updates on TSC soon, keep an eye on our usual channels :)
     
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  8. atomicdanny

    atomicdanny Staff Member

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    We are still making stuff don't worry :) - there are at least 3 more routes planned, 2 of those being worked on :) (probably more after that :) ) - Obviously I can't say where what or why (that means if you ask via pm i'll ignore you ;) )
     
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  9. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    TSW3 is new so a number of people will give it a try as they did with earlier versions
    Those who already play TSC will know what you can do in the game and might be disappointed with TSW3.

    If the number of posts on a forum are your only clue how the game is dong then you are not looking far enough.
    New German content for TSC is released on a weekly basis on RailSim.de and their forum is quite active
     
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  10. torfmeister

    torfmeister Well-Known Member

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    I don't see it that way, of course TSW forums are alive now and good to see they're making progress. Although TSW is not my choice, as I see far too many issues with it that wouldn't let me enjoy it. And it still is very limited compared to TSC's possibilities, which is despite its (individual DLC) faults, the more serious simulator for me. And if you strip off the massive post processing effects (too much in my opinion), it's not that big of a difference to TSC visually.

    And I really do not need new DLC every week, the content available for TSC is so vast, I'll be playing it for years to come - still have not touched a lot of stuff I own for it.

    So I want to say thank you to all the devs who keep on developing stuff for the old lady!
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2022
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  11. triznya.andras

    triznya.andras Well-Known Member

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    Lovely news!
    Sometimes I wonder whether such posts as the OP are bait or can be used to gauge opinions. ;)
    So I tend to answer in kind.
     
  12. TimeSlicedDanny

    TimeSlicedDanny Active Member

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    I have to agree with the OP. Sure TSC will be playable in my Steam account until the day Steam goes bust, but all the excitement and energy seems to be moving to TSW. There's currently no technical development announced for TSC and new DLC doesn't excite me if it's more of the same.
     
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  13. Vaffelen

    Vaffelen Well-Known Member

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    The third party content and variety will keep TSC alive for many years to come. TSC also has more freedom with its Route Editor and Scenario Editor imo.
     
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  14. ex_railwayman

    ex_railwayman Active Member

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    No, of course it doesn't, stop being so paranoid. TSW is for consoles primarily, that's why it's been well received, it's the market DTG aimed for, TSC is purely for PCs, both totally different games on totally different machines.
    And it's Summer, I haven't played regularly because it's too hot in my house to have my computer on 18/20 hours a day, plus the electricity usage cost has now gone through the roof, so, I'm confident many of us I'm sure will have to curtail our hobby times a bit if we can't afford the extra charges, we have to tighten our belts, everyone is in the same boat in this country now.

    Cheerz. Steve.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2022
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  15. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    I disagree. I am one of those that advocates using higher quality assets and I share screenshots - in fact, I don't even use any of the older assets if I can help it, and find myself only using AP stuff and newer routes, but I have no desire to use the newer, shinier TSW offerings.
     
  16. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    I mean, the 3rd party for North American Freight players is still going strong.

    -DTM is making a Phase 3/4 P40DC, and I don't think he's going anywhere anytime soon

    -Searchlight Simulations is working in a UP AC44 which should be out later this year.

    - Gary with the help of GTRAX and Great Northerner are I'm assuming working on their yearly route release (Based on their last 2 route release dates)

    -Milepost Simulations has their narrow gauge RGS route they are working on..

    -Larias Games has their Oregon route they are working on.

    -Travel By Train has a bunch of stuff in the pipeline, but they haven't released much recently.

    -Machine Rail and Diesel Workshop are both active.

    -Smokebox I would assume will continue making high quality steam locomotives.
     
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  17. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Union Workshop is also still working on japanese content for TS.
     
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  18. cscarpenter

    cscarpenter Well-Known Member

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    I am totally in 100% agreement with you, I admit TSC might be showing its age in certain areas but like yourself I share screenshots that in my opinion are not bad considering I don't use re-shade / enhancers etc.
    I am very fortunate that over time I have been able to afford to aquire the entire AP catalogue and also subscribe to ATS so very rarely, if ever, play vanilla TSC scenarios.
    I struggled for a long time having every 3rd party scenario screaming "you need to spend more money" at me , but over time you get to the point where you can swap out (TSTools / Loco Swap) and just buy the extra bits you really want to add to your library.
    I admit TSC can be a very expensive hobby but when I look back to spending £130 on 1x HO gauge DB BR01 Loco, in comparison TSC is cheap.
    I have seen the IN YOUR FACE advertising for TSW3, and guess what?
    I will be sticking with TSC thank you very much.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2022
  19. dangerousdave

    dangerousdave Well-Known Member

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    Ts classic is undoubtably the best train simulator there is.
     
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  20. Ardaeshir

    Ardaeshir Well-Known Member

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    I'm not planning to get TSW3.

    I get tired of the same old routine. They make TSW, a small number of routes, then jump to TSW 2. TSW gets a limited number of routes for a short time, then they jump to TSW 3. Rinse and repeat and without doubt we will get TSW4 very soon.

    Look at it this way: OMSI2 came out in 2013 and it is very admittedly a less polished, and far more unstable and buggy game than TSC. And yet people continue to release new dlcs and 3rd party content for OMSI2 because it remains the most popular bus simulator out there for the same reason TSC - completenes, care, time to grow.

    I think none of the TSW games got the long-term support, care, attention to detail and space to grow like TSC did. TSC won't die, not anytime soon.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2022
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  21. MRFS

    MRFS Staff Member

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    Tell me more, please? Ridgway - Vance J - Telluride and Rico over Lizard Head? Dolores? Mancos? Durango?

    It would be fantastic to see Vance - Ophir (please let it be Ophir) - Rico - Dolores.
     
  22. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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  23. MRFS

    MRFS Staff Member

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  24. BigMountain555

    BigMountain555 Well-Known Member

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    I play both but tend to prefer TSC over TSW nowadays. I am disappointed with the lack of countries outside the same-old three on TSW. In TSC, I have routes from a greater variety of countries. Route DLCs just feel more complete to me. They have longer routes, more rolling stock, etc. The scenarios are unlimited. The Workshop is awesome.
     
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  25. westcastlerail

    westcastlerail Active Member

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    Hi BigMountain555
    Route length was certainly an issue for me when I use to use TSW years ago. Love that in TSC that I can drive entire lines.
    I also remember the first cliche in TSW when the HST took something 45 seconds to travel a mile at 120mph!
    Not strictly on topic, but would be interested if you could point to some good scenarios on Workshop? (especially UK)
    The ones i have tried in the past tended to be full of cliches, or unrealistic (speeding along at 125mph then a red signal appears without warning) ? (I mainly use my own quick drives now)
     
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  26. fakenham

    fakenham Well-Known Member

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    UKTS used to be a hive of new route info for TSC, great screenshots etc, but it really has died down there quite a bit, which is a shame.
    I must admit, I play TSW/openBVE more than TSC now, maybe it's because I've been left behind with all the addons you need to get the sim working at peak potential, plus other things.
    I just think back to the heyday of TSC, remember Wales and Borders/SWW etc those routes were absolutely fantastic. There was something about the foliage back then, the 2d stuff always looked much better/real than the 3d stuff we have now, in my opinion of course! I remember playing a scenario with a class37 from Aber-Y-Strad (I think the fictional place was called) and was amazed at all the detail the route builder put in...still hard to beat these days, and that was 10 years ago, maybe more?
     
  27. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    When I first started with Railworks3/Train Simulator 2012 there was very little 3rd party items available apart from on UKTS.

    Now we have the likes of Steam Sounds Supreme, Digital Traction, Armstrong Powerhouse, Virtual Railroads making new locos and stock and groups like Golden Age Developments, Vulcan Productions, Backdated TrainSim, Major Wales, making freeware routes and repaints which are easier to get than via UKTS.

    I still look at UKTS and download items from the extensive list - the new Freeware Routes from Golden Age Developments require a lot of third party freeware from UKTS.
     
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  28. decrepitts#7027

    decrepitts#7027 Well-Known Member

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    I'll add Wayside Works. They provide freeware TSC British locos, rolling stock, reskins and so on. Most of their loco output is small shunter-type steam locos and early British Steam, such as their recently released Beyer 0-6-0 "Ilfracombe Goods". So far as I know, early British steamers are not otherwise represented in TSC outside whatever might be available at UTKS. I just wish we had true early-steam British routes (with properly attired citizens on station platforms and so on) to run them on.

    ADDENDUM: Above, I originally credited (British) Gen 1 Tanks (steam locos) to Wayside Works. It came to me only later that they were instead created by Pembrokeshire Works. I found them via a Discord download at, if memory serves, The Marshalling Yard. (If not there, it's likely on Golden Age Development's Discord.)
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2022
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  29. trevkiwi

    trevkiwi Member

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    There are always some conspiracy theorists.
     
  30. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    I blame the Illuminati. They secretly financed the production of TSW because it contains subliminal messaging on a frequency if 430Hz, which is the frequency the brain works at, and coupled with the 5G signals, they can control our brains and make us want to set fire to things... or at least that's what the voices tell me to do anyway. It's OK though, as I have put mylar sheets up at my windows to deflect the 5G and don't play TSW. All I have to worry about now are the directed energy weapons they they pay my neighbours to use against me, but hah! They haven't reckoned against my magic crystals yet. Anyway, all these train sims are all proof that the earth is flat if you think about it.
     
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  31. PhÜnKî_Rø0sTā

    PhÜnKî_Rø0sTā Active Member

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    I'd say some TSW routes may even be ported to over, seeing as the Long island Railroad from TSW1 etc is now in classic.

    Cane Creek, Cathcart Circle, Oakville Sub, East Coastway etc.
     
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  32. atomicdanny

    atomicdanny Staff Member

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    TSW routes can't be "ported over" for the most part the routes are pretty much built from Scratch, the only things from LIRR that were copied over were the stations, and even then they had to be converted, changed to match slightly different track*, so not really a port, just a route that uses assets from the TSW version. While slightly less work than other routes - it's not really much different from a completely new route.

    (* = even the best track layer can't 100% match track perfectly to another route :) )
     
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  33. USRailFan

    USRailFan Active Member

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    Stock would likely be easier to port over, as we've already seen (the LNER HST, I think the TEA tankers from the Class 60, and I suppose the LIRR stock?)
     
  34. atomicdanny

    atomicdanny Staff Member

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    Not really, while true it's less work than making from new, it is still a lot of work - it has to be converted, pretty much remapped at worst, and also things like physics, sounds have to be redone for the TS1 versions (the latter more so if there are restrictions on sound use)
     
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  35. Sproutmask

    Sproutmask Member

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    I see TSC and TSW as different games that I play and enjoy for different reasons. I'm very impressed with TSW3 so far, the new routes have a proper "next-gen" feel about them and some of the improvements to TSW2 routes have really lifted them (the Bakerloo Line has a whole new lease of life with the new timetable). Where TSC has an advantage is that it has been around for so long that not only is there a huge range of DLC available but developers have had the time to figure out how to squeeze the last drop out of the engine, giving us locos like Searchlight's AC4400CW. The scenario editor in TSC is more powerful and versatile than TSW and there isn't another train simulation that gets close in terms of the ability to create scenarios across many countries and eras with mostly or entirely authentic stock. So if I'm feeling creative, it's TSC all the way.

    The downside to TSC is the level of faff entailed in obtaining requirements for anything beyond basic scenarios - a multitude of third parties and freeware developers, visits to multiple sites, downloading a dozen add-ons each with their own installers and hoping they all play nicely together. As a simulation, it's great with the right add-ons. As a virtual, near-bottomless toybox it's tremendous fun. As a user experience, it's horrible. So TSW is there for all those times I just want to chill out and drive a train in a nice environment without mucking about.

    My hope is that the back catalogue, ecosystem of third party and freeware devs and DTG's evident ongoing commitment to TSC (albeit with a smaller team) mean TSC has plenty of life left.
     
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  36. Asheix

    Asheix Active Member

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    I now play TSW, but I started on Train Simulator 2017 after building my first PC with an AMD FX 4300. I came across TSC game from a YouTube recommendation from Moleman978 prior to 2017 and watched most of his content thereon. The Chatham Mainline is my favourite in the game along with London to Brighton line. With TSW, nothing has changed, with London Commuter being my most played route and I hope to see more Chatham Mainline in the game in the future.

    I hope that TSC continues for years to come as I do come back to the game every once in a while. It still has a lot of features that I don't think would come to TSW any time soon, if at all. The ability to create a route based on an RL line or one of your own imagination, or the wide range of mods that can be applied to the game such as the 1066 Hastings Line created by Backdated Rail Sim. I don't think any of that could be done without the knowledge of Unreal Engine.

    I haven't had much interest in TSC since TSW came out in 2020, but there is one DLC I would like and that is Chatham Main Line: London Victoria & Blackfriars - Dover & Ramsgate Route Addon. I have wanted a route to Dover for years, albeit from Ashford International via Folkestone.
     
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  37. atomicdanny

    atomicdanny Staff Member

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    Not sure you can have any more than you have right now in TS1? It's pretty much all represented in Chatham Main Line Victoria / Blackfriars to Ramsgate and Dover :)
     
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  38. torfmeister

    torfmeister Well-Known Member

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    I'm just about to count how many different renditions of the Battersea Power Station are in the game... from wasteland to current state.:)
     
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  39. atomicdanny

    atomicdanny Staff Member

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    I mean I did try to make it different for the last one at least ;)
     
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  40. torfmeister

    torfmeister Well-Known Member

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    I'll post a gallery of Battersea through the times screenshots. :D Still looking for a flying pig asset ;)

    I really do like TSC for not only being a railway sim but also kind of a museum, preserving history. Not only BPS, but routes like Weardale&Teesdale, Netherfield Nottingham, etc... Fantastic to relive the old days.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2022
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  41. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    Ehh.

    Cane Creek has no value as a stand alone route in TSC, unless you pair it with the mainline, but the two major end points, Helper and Grand Junction, are 130 miles apart, on top of the entire length of the branch line.

    Oakville Sub isn't a very good route too, unless it's extended for passenger services (Since DTG will release unbranded stuff for TSC)
     
  42. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    Extending Oakville to Toronto or somewhere west or south is definitely viable.

    I should know. I live in Ontario.
     
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  43. TrainsAreBest

    TrainsAreBest Active Member

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    Folks, I think you're missing the point. You may enjoy TSC (as do I), but that doesn't mean there are enough in the general public sticking with it to give it a future.

    Again, it's another quiet week on this forum, but compare that with the busyness of the TSW PC subforum. Look at the Steam usage stats as well, they show a steady decline in users. It's not jumping off a cliff, but the trend is clearly downwards.

    I'm not saying TSC will fold by Christmas, but when I look up and see the sun low in the western sky, I know night is coming. We should prepare ourselves for its end and make sure we've archived all commercial 3rd party software for the time the producers aren't around any longer.

    I may even have to learn to love TSW!
     
  44. mindenjohn

    mindenjohn Active Member

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    MSTS still lives 20 years after Microsoft last touched it. The bigger question is not will TSC survive but will Steam continue to provide a platform for it. Legally they cannot deny you access to what they have contracted to provide when we the customers have paid for it but they are much more powerful financially than we are. However a solution could be to provide a means of accessing the game without using Steam - this is a long way off as as long as Steam continue to make money out of it they will maintain its current pose. Stop worrying about what you cannot control, worry wears holes in your pockets and in your head.
     
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  45. torfmeister

    torfmeister Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. At the moment there's nothing to worry about. I don't know the sales figures but I think TSC is still making a lot of money.

    If someday it should be discontinued by DTG and Steam would stop hosting it (very unlikely), there'll have to be a different DRM-free RailWorks.exe. That would mean DTG must give away their .igs model decryption system too, which currently works with Steam, the appmanifest and the _.sbn key and DLC identifier files in their asset folders. I don't think all of this is going to happen any time soon.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2022
  46. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    Give your doom and gloom about the game coming to an end a rest - it is getting boring now.
    The people from DTG have already told you that is not happening but you would rather spread false rumours.
    And
    Do you see the likes of Armstrong Powerhouse, Just Trains, Steam Sounds Supreme, Virtual Railroads to name a few making stuff for TSW? - No because they know TSC has a future

    Go back to TSW-Z or whatever it is called now and leave people who are interested in TSC to carry on regardless.
     
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  47. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    Way ahead of you. Everything is archived and backed up on dual systems with redundancy.

    I'd rather scoop my eyes out with a rusty spoon.
     
  48. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    While the routes first made in TSW and then rebuilt in TS aren't exactly ports I still call them that and I find them an appropriate title. Internally the Xbox 360 and One versions of Forza Horizon 2 are two completely different games but they still count as one game, but with each version with major differences and pros/cons.
    I'm pretty sure they meant in TSW.
    I think Cane Creek would be something somebody would make - it is a truly stunning route after all - but it's one of those American routes that you need to be really into to enjoy. I love American trains but I can't possibly do Cane Creek. It's just too slow for me, but others will absolutely love it, and would in TSW if the route wasn't so buggy.
    Gran Turismo Sport may end up proving you wrong sadly...
    Luckily Valve is basically printing money so there's no chance of Steam shutting down for a long time. And even if it did, people would find a way to get TS working without it.
     
  49. BeenTrain

    BeenTrain Member

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    I am convinced someone, whether its DTG or some other party, will eventualy see the enormous business potential of TSC and bring it to the future.

    Why?
    Third Parties, and even DTG still invest, in it. They wouldn't if they would not make a profit.

    So don't worry!
     
  50. mindenjohn

    mindenjohn Active Member

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    :DBe Happy:D
     
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