Is The End Of Tsc Coming Into Sight?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by TrainsAreBest, Sep 6, 2022.

  1. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    Depends how much more popular. That would be like Apple stopping making desktop computers because more people buy PCs. Besides.. is it more popular? TSW just doesn't do all the stuff that most who use TSC are looking for, so it will always have a large committed user base due to it's massive catalogue of available stuff. Something TSW can only dream about, so I fail to see why it would be a good thing. What exactly do you think is good about losing TSC?
     
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  2. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    Or they are running into issues.
    A PC (Personal Computer) is a desktop computer, I would think. Unless you are lumping laptops into the term somehow. (Let's ignore the fact that the OS is different for a moment, here.)
     
  3. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    Tell that to the 100's of players that have literally 1000's of pounds invested in the game, myself included.
     
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  4. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    Fanboyism I suspect.
     
  5. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    A PC is as you stated a personal computer a laptop is still by its very definition a personal computer albeit a mobile version.

    A "laptop" is nothing more than a nickname for a mobile personal computer ie PC.

    No desk, top or otherwise is needed for the definition "PC"
     
  6. snapnfix

    snapnfix Member

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    Whether it happens won't depend on whether it's a bad or good thing, but whether DTG continue to make money from TSC that isn't at the expense of TSW.

    In my view DTG could keep both active provided they stay different types of games. They are sort of already. But I think core functionality development of TSC has come to an end (shame) and in a couple of years' time the user base will have shrunk to a point that DTG are no longer interested in it.
     
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  7. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn’t personally want to see TSC end, after all I’ve invested well over £100 in various route purchases the last few months. Probably nearer £250 truth be told. Nevertheless I do find myself torn between TSC and TSW at times, reasons as previously mentioned mainly the expansive timetable functionality and the ability to walk and interact with the world. Just fired up a run in the 365 on TSC ECML South. Instinctively turned round to open the cab windows with my mouse and of course you can’t. They’re not interactive.

    However to be a fully viable alternative, TSW needs to break away from its current limited paradigm of countries and routes, in particular where the UK is concerned the fixation on southern England third rail and Electrostars.

    I do wonder actually if this “Huddersfield” route for TSC and the heavy publicity it seems to be getting is a litmus test for TSC. If it does well compared to NTP for TSW, then maybe TSC gets a stay of execution. But if it doesn’t sell in huge numbers then it could be that influences decisions in the next few months where development effort gets focused. They know TSW will always bring in sales from the consoles not just the PC users.
     
  8. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    I mean, the only reason TSW is probably more popular is that it is that it is available to more people thru both the Epic store and consoles. But TSW still lacks depth and freedom that some hardcore TSC players prefer.
     
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  9. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    LOL... what? So a laptop is not a PC? What are you smoking? By PC, you know very well what I mean. No one actually thinks "PC" means "personal computer" any longer. No one who uses a Mac thinks of it as a "PC". My point, which I'm fairly certain you did actually understand, is that PCs (regardless of OS) are far more popular than Macs, so should Apple stop making them?
     
  10. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    Almost certainly.
     
  11. heardturkey

    heardturkey Active Member

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    Or the reverse: Scrap the PC element as its not more popular and make it a console only game.:)
    graph.jpg
     
  12. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    That is exactly why TSW is able to outperform TSC. TSC sales figures on console are literally zero. I don't know how much Epic picking up TSC would help if that occurred.
    When I initially typed the reply (since edited), I actually forgot for a moment. Thinking back, in the early 2000s, I looked at a PC as a Microsoft Windows machine, but the term PC is defined right now (according to Google, anyway) as "a computer that is used by one person at a time in a business, a school, or at home", going on to say "It is not usually a portable computer". So therefore, by that definition, Apple machines count as PCs, but laptops do not.

    Either way, I take that your point is that they don't sell as many desktop computers and operating systems as Microsoft does. It does not invalidate my initial remark.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2022
  13. VictoryWorks

    VictoryWorks Well-Known Member

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    We may have slowed down a bit in the past 2 years due to life issues but we're not ready to quit on TSC yet :)
     
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  14. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    Stop calling me old!

    (I'm kidding, if it's not clear to some. Though I'm not old either. :cool:)
     
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  15. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    I think you got that the wrong way round. :D
     
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  16. USRailFan

    USRailFan Active Member

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    Now that Alan Thomson has apparently declared that they'll develop for TSW3 I guess that's where the youngsters will move to...
     
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  17. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    Wait. Where is this?
     
  18. trevkiwi

    trevkiwi Member

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    Back to the topic, Is the end of TSC coming into sight?

    I have noticed over the last few weeks that I'm no longer getting on Facebook posts from Train simulator (DTG) about new upcoming routes or anything about TSW.
     
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  19. Nick Y

    Nick Y Well-Known Member

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    Was in the latest TSW3 roadmap article and also on the roadmap livestream on Thursday.

    Apparently ATS approached DTG and asked to be involved.
     
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  20. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    ?
    aaa.png
     
  21. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    Nah.... PC meaning "personal computer" is well out of date. It's basically PC/Mac these days, with hardly anyone ever referring to a Mac as a PC, as that would just be confusing. Laptops are referred to as laptops... but the distinction still stands as a way of differentiating between Mac and PC laptops. Everyone I know with a Mac.... and I know loads with working in the creative industries, refer to them as Macs. They'd actually get upset if you called them a PC :) They're very insecure about that.
     
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  22. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    Social media channels for TSW and TSC are now split. I don't know about Facebook, but I know Twitch and Youtube channels are different at least.
    I found that after posting. I am now speculating on what this means for TSC projects currently sold independently. So far, I and others suspect nothing will change, but it would be nice for us if they were permitted into TSW in return for bringing some stuff over to Steam. (Since, for TSW, you really have no other option if you want to get stuff to players.) But we'll see either way.
    If I want to call an Apple desktop computer a personal computer, I am well within my right to do that. :cool: They can yell all they want. I refer to an "Apple" as an iPad or iPhone, anyway.
     
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  23. smugstarlord#4202

    smugstarlord#4202 Well-Known Member

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    I still think it wouldn't be a bad thing for TSC to come to an end. TSC is only available on PC whereas TSW is available on majority of platforms, bringing in more money than a stone age, low graphic, old gen game. Your all getting annoyed as your at the ages where "change is wrong"
     
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  24. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    You have no idea what age I am. I think you are being a bit silly here. I have no issue with change, and I am not "of an age" of any discernable kind. Your argument seems to based on a load of unfounded assumptions about both individuals and the demographics of gamers in general.
    As for a stone age, low graphic, old gen game, then I suggest you have never seen TSC pushed to its limits - it can look awesome. The fact is, TSW is very restricting for anyone who wants real world, accurate simulation, because it just doesn't have the routes, or rolling stock, and many of the assets are just not up to the same standard when it comes to this. It is more of a game than a sim. That's fine, if you are a casual gamer with a console, but your assumption that such people are in a majority is woefully inaccurate I'm afraid.
    Another note regarding old games, and your assumption that their age or graphical ability is a metric for whether they are viable or not in today's market; You may wish to refer to WoW, Counterstrike, or Dota2 or many others which are still the most watched and played e-sports games. Not everything has to be graphically contemporary. There are tons of popular games that use old graphics engines and are still widely respected and widely played. To suggest that they should be retired on the basis of age or graphics engine is just utterly ridiculous. You are coming across as a TSW fanboi.. simple as that.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2022
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  25. smugstarlord#4202

    smugstarlord#4202 Well-Known Member

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    [removed by Protagonist - off topic, argument]
     
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  26. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    [removed by Protagonist - off topic, argument]
     
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  27. smugstarlord#4202

    smugstarlord#4202 Well-Known Member

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    [removed by Protagonist - off topic, argument]
     
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  28. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    [removed by Protagonist - off topic, argument]
     
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  29. mindenjohn

    mindenjohn Active Member

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    [removed by Protagonist - off topic, argument]
     
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  30. smugstarlord#4202

    smugstarlord#4202 Well-Known Member

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  31. smugstarlord#4202

    smugstarlord#4202 Well-Known Member

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    I've done nothing wrong, broken no rules. I'm allowed to say how i feel on a game that I own, wether the dinosaurs like it or not
     
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  32. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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  33. snapnfix

    snapnfix Member

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    I would have thought that's impossible to know. What makes you say that?
     
  34. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    I only found out about this route Because of a Facebook Post from DTG.
    Maybe you have unsubscribed from DTG posts on FB?
     
  35. smugstarlord#4202

    smugstarlord#4202 Well-Known Member

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  36. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

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    Back in the day it was shorthand for "IBM PC Compatible", named for the 1981 IBM Personal Computer which established many of the hardware standards we used pretty much up until the turn of the millennium.
    Back then, Macs were not interoperable with software designed for those devices' hardware, so "Mac vs PC" was a significant distinction. Eventually Apple switched to more industry-standard x86 architecture in the mid-2000s.


    I'm old enough to remember when every manufacturer still used the term "Laptop PC" in their marketing for them. Before everyone recognised the term and it was just understood what "Laptop" meant.
     
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  37. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    We know all that... and they're still called Macs, and no one calls them PCs, especially the people who use them.
     
  38. IsambardKingdomBrunel

    IsambardKingdomBrunel Well-Known Member

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    I will never buy TSW3 or any future versions.
    But i really enjoy TSC and use it all the time.
    It could do with an AI driver, as per OR and Trainz. So that players can ride the cushions or just sit in the cab.
    Also all three games have full editors, so they form part of a hobby. TSW no editors, just a throw away game.
     
  39. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Yes you are allowed but you could try growing up before you do it! Casting aspersions on people based their preferences is highly immature. Infact, it could be argued that TSC suits the serious enthusiast more than TSW where the "historic" routes in particularly, merely flirt with accuracy.

    And this childish console versus PC business is so borish, how anyone feels the need to pit what box of electronic wizardy alongside another persons, in some kind of genital waving contest is well beyond me!
     
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  40. Jay1986

    Jay1986 Member

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    Why would I want beef burgers (TSC), when I get steak (TSW) at home.
     
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  41. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    If I have a craving for driving a Pacer from Southport to Wigan... I can in TSC.
    If I have a craving for driving a 802 all the way from King's Cross to Edinburgh.. I can in TSC.
    If I have a craving for driving a 185 from Liverpool to Crewe, I can in TSC.
    If I have a craving for driving a pre-TOPS 37 from Llandudno to Crewe on a period correct route, I can in TSC.
    If I have a craving for driving a Tamping machine along the ECML and actually do some tamping... I can in TSC.
    I can edit my scenarios fully.
    I can edit liveries fully, including importing photos and full text editing in imported fonts.
    I have hundreds of routes, and more rolling stock in every available livery imaginable, and more is created all the time.

    I am now getting a bit fatigued from typing all the things I can do in TSC that I cannot do in Track Side Walker, so tell me... who's steak again?
    TSW has a pitiful range of rolling stock and routes, no editing worth a damn, and a tragic lack of third party support. I downloaded it.. played it for a while, then got bored because I'd done everything... and walking around stations trying to find things is not really adding to the whole train driving experience much, is it?

    Serious question: What exactly does TSW offer to tempt me away from all that? Let me guess.. graphics.... am I right? Put up your best screenshot, and I'll match it.
     
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  42. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Where in TSW can you take a Victorian tank engine along a north of England branch line shunting a pick up goods, or climbing out of Kingswear in the 1950's with a GWR Castle and ten bogie coaches, trying to maintain enough steam to get up the bank. Or taking a Manor along the Cambrian coast with the Cambrian coast express, or running through the Scottish Highlands with a Caledonian railway tender engine with matching coaches, or working a heavy coal train from a County Durham colliery with a noisy tender engine?

    Where in TSW can you drive a Deltic along the ECML, or working a summer Saturday relief along the Dawlish sea wall with a class 50, or drive a Euston to Birmingham express with a class 86 etc, etc, etc?!
     
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  43. smugstarlord#4202

    smugstarlord#4202 Well-Known Member

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    Where on TSC can you walk around the stations? Or sit in the carriages and let the AI takeover?
     
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  44. mindenjohn

    mindenjohn Active Member

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    If you want to you can drive a Deltic in Colorado or an A4 in New York. You can design your own route (have done a number of times) and well over 100 miles, one route I know being built has a run of 900, yes, Nine Hundred miles, all in TSC but TSW, one hour of tedium is enough. What driver climbs down to couple his train in the US - short lines maybe - CSX, never.
     
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  45. snapnfix

    snapnfix Member

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    You use the world camera and move around in x, y, z as you want. Admittingly it isn't walking, but it's the same effect. Several of the Swiss metre gauge routes allow you to sit in the observation car and let the AI take you on your journey. It isn't widespread functionality, but it certainly exists.
     
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  46. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    Your best argument for TSW is... Walking...

    Says it all really.
     
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  47. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    [removed by Protagonist - off topic, argument]
     
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  48. emanuelemerico746

    emanuelemerico746 Active Member

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    For me, a Continental European, TSC has also a lot of fun more than TSW. I have several DX9 games, generally bus (OMSI), racing cars (RaceRoom) and trains (TSC), and in my pre-assembled Lenovo rig (i5 11th gen, Nvidia 1650 4 GB, M.2 SSD with other free four slots) they run well with some workarounds: as I have a 1366x768 24-inch TV-Monitor with Built-in HDR, i upscale with Nvidia DSR up to 4K and half-V-Sync active (not adaptive because it has spikes of stutter), and the effect without any AA is outstanding, especially during nighttime. Not forgettable the feature of Ambient Occlusion in TSC that adds even more realism to the scene, especially with dark colours and shadows. Despite the questionable GUI and HUD (I hope will be modernised a day), some (not all unfortunately) stock locos have an accurate behaviour.
    The first example coming to my mind is the DB BR 155, my favourite loco in the game: Compared to the TSW one, is more realistic, for instance if you brake with any throttle notch set differently from zero, the protection relais cuts off power to 0 Amps instantly (is TSW there isn't similar feature). The 155 in TSC has automatic cooling fans handling, TSW one not.
    What i complain to DTG is TSC must be cleaned out of all rubbish rolling stock and replaced with equivalent good material and well simulated. Take the German BR 120: it accelerates like a car, without smooth behaviour! And the cruise control sucks very hard, because it works only when throttling... and the electric brake? Boh.
    And what about the German version of Class 66 (BR 266), always made by DTG? It slips at only third notch of throttle and it doesn't have instrument lighting!
    Apart these complaints, TSC has a lot of glorious story ahead, like MSTS, because there are a lot of mods and routes in the web, and Lua scripts allow to simulate every aspect of the locos, wagons, and sceneries beyond every imagination. It takes simply look outside the Steam walled garden.
    In my screenshots I often show a lot of third-party mods I found (and paid) around the WWW, not only for my personal pleasure, but for expand the knowledge of my forum colleagues about other ways to have fun in TSC.

    No one dares to criticize Assetto Corsa, although is universally considered an abandoned project or an eternal beta, AC gives nowadays a lot fun through his mods. I don't understand why TSC could be different by AC declaring it a "dead man walking".
     
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  49. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    WoW is 18 years old, and still going strong. This whole idea of a game's shelf life being determined by how old the APIs it uses are is just silly. Great games have longevity. Great games have lasting appeal because they are great, not because they use the latest graphics engine. All TSW has going for it, is UE4. That's it, and even then, it's not that great. I've proved time and time again that with the 3rd party add-ons available, TSC can look deeply impressive and can hold its own against TSW, which is why when the gauntlet is thrown down to them to post up their best screenshots for comparison, they never put their money where their mouths are. All they come back with, is "you can walk around" as if that somehow makes it a better rail simulator.
     
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  50. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    I bet this thread gets locked tomorrow when the DTG staff gets back.
     
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