Is The End Of Tsc Coming Into Sight?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by TrainsAreBest, Sep 6, 2022.

  1. USRailFan

    USRailFan Active Member

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    I thought some add-ons had a "Passenger mode" that pretty much was just that? (Sort of the Introductory Train Rides back in MSTS I guess)
     
  2. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    [removed by Protagonist - off topic, argument. User banned for one week for prolonging the argument.]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 9, 2022
  3. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    Probably. (shrug). It won't change facts though.
     
  4. trevkiwi

    trevkiwi Member

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    The last post from DTG on FB was 4th of October. They normally post something every day. The last post on Twitter was on 6th of October both about the same route.
     
  5. Jay1986

    Jay1986 Member

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    TSC may have the extreme quality of routes, but the outdated PS2 quality graphics engine really hurts my eyes now :(
    So glad I switched to TSW. TSW is more versatile then TSC, if you actually care as much about locations/scenery and not just trains. Having the freedom to explore the routes on foot and interiors of the trains. The steak tastes so much better.
     
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  6. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, it's terrible.... I see what you mean.
    20220505151015_1.jpg
    24010_20220724073057_1.jpg

    I don't know how I put up with it. LOL
     
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  7. Jay1986

    Jay1986 Member

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    I didn’t ask, but ok lol.
    The picture looks enhanced or filtered. The game graphics don’t look as good as that.
    A picture is one thing, gameplay another.
     

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  8. VictoryWorks

    VictoryWorks Well-Known Member

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    Typical 2022 childish attitude.. "Only one thing can be good and it is only the thing that I like."

    The argument to get rid of TSC is like saying, DTG only want 80% of their current income, the other 20% they don't want anymore, they would rather not have that money. Leaving TSC available costs them zero effort and makes them more money. The only reason to get rid of TSC would be to try and force everyone using it to move to TSW, and I think as has been demonstrated in this thread that simply wouldn't happen. Some people would move to Trainz, some would move to Open Rails, some would just move on from Train Sim'ing as TSW doesn't do what many people want (and based on it's current trajectory, it never will).

    Being able to walk around a station and be a virtual passenger isn't worth sacrificing dozens of times more content, covering many more countries and timescales (especially steam era) and much of it being a sight more realistic in it's operations. Not to mention it's reasonably bug free these days - TSW3 is still carrying game breaking bugs from 4 years ago. I also like my AI steam trains to have sound and for 1950's Crewe station to not look like a zombie apocalypse - I'm fussy, I know ;)
     
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  9. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    My game is modded to hell and back, and is in no way standard. I never said it was. Does that matter? Looking good is looking good. If you had mods to improve TSW, would you not use them? Of course you would. Is it cheating? Nope. I'm using a butt tonne of addons and third party improvements.
    24010_20220517185234_1.jpg
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    20220604133942_1.jpg

     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2022
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  10. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    I'm not seeing how that is impressive. Can you explain what it is about this that impresses you so much?
     
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  11. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Creative Director Staff Member

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    Some of us are always here.

    Please get this thread back on topic. While comparisons between TSC and TSW are always going to happen and everyone is allowed a preference, anyone heading down the path of "this is the better game and you're a moron if you think otherwise" is going to end up on the naughty step. In this case, the naughty step is sitting outside the forum unable to post for a week.

    As Jamie already pointed out, while TSC's active player numbers aren't what they once were we're still supporting it.
     
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  12. Jay1986

    Jay1986 Member

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    I’ll just say this. Can TSC offer such vivid looking skies and scenery?
    The train is probably the only thing you care about in an image. If I haven’t got the world surrounding the train to bring the train to life, then what’s the point?
     
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  13. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    I just arrived and have no idea what transpired earlier (an hour late, I guess), but from the looks of it, I'm probably glad I didn't see it. Thanks for being around on the weekend to keep an eye on things, Sam. :D
     
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  14. Kim Olesen

    Kim Olesen Active Member

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    Well i would buy TSW if it introduced “chaos” events like ZuSi.
     
  15. nyrmetros

    nyrmetros Member

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    I can't figure out how to drive any of the trains in TSW or TSW2 but I am good go with TSC.
     
  16. Dom5619

    Dom5619 New Member

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    I note that TSC has been dropped below TSW in the forums grouping. The downhill march continues? I hope not.
     
  17. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    Agreed..

    And as this thread clearly proves, NO TSC isn't dead...

    Next..
     
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  18. smugstarlord#4202

    smugstarlord#4202 Well-Known Member

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    No, but its slowly dying as TSW is taking over
     
  19. BeenTrain

    BeenTrain Member

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    What's all this comparing between TSC and TSW?
    You can't compare apples and pears, right?
    Or is it a competition?

    In my opinion not.
    TSW is a complete different game with a complete different gameplay, where TSW is more an arcade game, TSC is a rail hobby.
    Rail hobbiest, like me, will probably prefer TSC over TSW because of its specific features.

    TSW is not the succesor of TSC.

    Just waiting for TSC its succesor, TSM
     
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  20. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    And your just trolling for reactions, but that's ok we were all young and immature once.
     
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  21. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    It's been there for a while. I don't think I remember, since joining, seeing it above TSW.
     
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  22. snapnfix

    snapnfix Member

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    Self-evidently it isn't dead, but is it dying? Not yet, but I think I see signs of it fading. I'll be surprised if it's still being actively sold by DTG in two years' time. The trajectory of player numbers is slowly but surely heading south.

    And this is from someone who doesn't own TSW.
     
  23. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Even if DTG stop selling it and producing add-ons for it, it doesn't mean it is dead. MSTS still has a small following 20 years after Microsoft stopped supporting it.

    There are plenty of freeware creators of routes and stock for TSC, they will keep the sim alive at least certainly for the foreseeable future.
     
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  24. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    It’s just a shame DTG never overhauled the route editor to make certain functions a bit easier or user friendly. The track laying tools are really good, except when it decides to make a section invisible, but no wire frame mode makes it hard to see what you’re doing when it goes under the terrain especially using the easement tool. And terrain painting is a right nightmare - limited palette unless you do the extreme faff of trying to create your own. The painting tools are very inflexible and there is no copy and paste for terrtex, Trainz Surveyor is far better in this respect. Then there is still the general lack of a centralised resource for asset acquisition, or you have to take pot luck that you can find something useful in the DLC you own.
     
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  25. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I must admit I know very little about the dark arts of route building. I did try once and it did seem quite a complicated process, certainly much more so than Trainz which was very user friendly in that respect. I found even track laying was a laborious and I ended up with buffer stops everywhere! And signalling, well that was a disaster!

    I do take my hat off to those that have done it.

    I suppose once you get into it, it is easier but as you say trying to find assets is time consuming. I have edited a couple of routes for my own amusement and trying to find certain types of buildings for example is quite tricky.
     
  26. atomicdanny

    atomicdanny Staff Member

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    Route building isn't that hard (it does take practice of course like most things, but don't give up and you can do good things) - I mean I must have done something right in the last 12-13 years of doing it ;) (I'm sure a few will say otherwise but I'll just ignore them, unless constructive :) ) - although If i get the impression right, it sounds like I could go into trainz editor and make a route easily ;) )
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2022
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  27. MRFS

    MRFS Staff Member

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    I imagine you'll take care over your point radii Danny...
     
  28. Warspite

    Warspite Well-Known Member

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    To answer the OP’s question, no I don’t think the end is coming into sight for TSC, at least not yet anyway. There is no reason why it cannot sit alongside TSW3 as some of us use both sims to provide different experiences.

    Although I enjoy some of the really good features of TSW3, it doesn’t provide the total train sim experience. West Cornwall Local is a good example. How can you provide a route set in West Cornwall in the early 1990s (a route I knew very well in that period) and not include an accurate HST? If the route just ran from St Erth to St Ives this would not be an issue but St Austell to Penzance without the correct main line trains? I accept that the scenery on the various TSC versions of the same route may not look so appealing (although some would say it is more accurate) but at least you can run realistic services using the correct motive power and rolling stock.

    As others have said, timetable mode in TSW3 is an excellent feature which we cannot replicate in TSC unless we develop our own scenarios and it is one of the reasons I enjoy playing routes in TSW3 where rolling stock is well represented. But I haven’t run SOS since I bought it (and since regretted doing so) because I cannot seriously run anything from Crewe to Liverpool with only a Jubilee and an 8F.

    Some of the more recent routes in TSC prove there is a lot of life left in the old sim. I recently finished a scenario on JT’s Hope Valley route using the ATS class 185 and it was a brilliant drive with a superb route and the excellent 185. Similarly, some of the AP scenarios on GEML, ECML and WCML are very busy with a lot of AI traffic representing all the motive power of the period. For me, at least, this is what good train simulation is about.

    Developers like Maik Goltz and Searchlight Simulations have taken TSC to a new level. The Searchlight AC4400CW is an amazing example of what can be done in TSC and with the ability to have working EOTDs and Defect Detectors, demonstrates TSC is far from finished.

    For me, TSW3 scores highly with (generally) very good scenery, lighting, dynamic weather and timetable mode. Train modelling is also excellent. However, this should not be an argument about TSC against TSW and which is best. I’m happy to support both and will continue to enjoy both.
     
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  29. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Yes I would definitely say you have done a lot of things right in the route editor.

    I will have another go at it at some point for sure.
     
  30. ex_railwayman

    ex_railwayman Active Member

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    Without Dinosaurs you wouldn't have a game to play, do you think all the Senior Management at DTG are teenagers, what an ignorant troll you are.....
     
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  31. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    Wait...they aren't?

    Surely young at heart, at least? :D
     
  32. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Certain processes are easier in the Trainz editor, notably terrain manipulation and as I already alluded to, terrain texture painting. Ironically although Trainz has a wireframe mode you cannot penetrate through the surface to work underneath. Tunnels are one of the less functional parts of Trainz. You have to mess about with digholes to clear the membrane from the terrain opening up a huge hole way beyond the portal area.

    If anyone can persuade the DTG Bagman to spend a little money and love on the editor, I vote you Danny… :)
     
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  33. nwp1

    nwp1 Well-Known Member

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    TSC will be replaced by TSM towards the end of the 30s. Train Simulator Modern to be trialled in 15 years time!!!!!!!
     
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  34. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    Ah, yes. With DirectX 11 capability.
     
  35. peterchambers

    peterchambers Member

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    SAD needs a mention for Brennitzer Linienstern and Koeblitzer Bergland. I was highly "wowed" yesterday on Brennitzer and mused that there was nothing like it on TSW but that if SAD could be employed by DTG for both TSW and TSC then things on both platforms could be improved enormously. I even thought for a moment that I could ditch everything and just run TSC with the SAD routes and be quite satisfied , but that was a thought too far.
     
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  36. peterchambers

    peterchambers Member

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    A combo of SAD, AP and Just Trains - realistic routes and rolling stock with real beauty, superb sound stage and wonderful assets could really lift the train sim world FOR EVERYBODY.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2022
  37. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    Those assets might make routes look better but without the possibility of running what you want, where you want TSW is rubbish.
     
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  38. IronBladder

    IronBladder Well-Known Member

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    What is SAD, apart from seasonal affective disorder?
     
  39. peterchambers

    peterchambers Member

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    SAD is a Dutch rail sim route developer. I don't remember his full name and I think he works with one other person. His routes are superb but fictional central european. He does demonstrate what can be done by the right person.

    If Peter is saying that even if people like SAD et al were to become involved with TSW it would remain rubbish then the situation re TSW is even worse than I thought. (I dumped TSW2 and returned to TSC for many of the reasons outlined in above posts.).
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2022
  40. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    I think the focus in TSW3 is the 24 hour timetable and graphics. Don't quote me on that, but that's what it seems like. Obviously they do what they can with the trains, too, but besides that.
     
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  41. mrscott2022

    mrscott2022 Member

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    Well I sure hope TSC sticks around for a while, I'm just getting started with it. It seems to be one of the last places for the "casual content creators" to go.
     
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  42. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    I started with it and didn't even look at TSW. I finally got some stuff that was 75% off. I don't think I really got much at a lower discount than that, basically just to give me some variety and some other routes...which are oddly enough slowly seeping over to TSC. Leipzig (except the part connecting to Riesa and leaving off north of Leipzig Hbf, and a small section south), LIRR, and Huddersfield all made it over.
     
  43. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    In TSW you cannot do what you want with the trains.
    There is a lot of messing just to get a train to run on a different route to one that has scenarios for the DLC.
    If they had a version of Quick Drive where you ran what you wanted on a route you wanted I might use it more.
    In TSC I ran a Kuju SD40-2 from Norwood Jn to East Croydon - surprised that the AWS bell rang :D
     
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  44. 878606

    878606 Member

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    I don't even know why this still a topic about TSC comes to an end really don't know what is going on with people brains..... This kind of topics have been around for a few years and DTG always have support TSC released their own odd dlc but they still support the game, when they stop supporting we will know from themselfs for sure :cool:
     
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  45. IsambardKingdomBrunel

    IsambardKingdomBrunel Well-Known Member

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    No buddy with TSC, the player still has to control all the driving functions.
    In Trainz & OR, the AI controls the driving. Which leaves the player to enjoy the ride.
    Particularly good if running a new route.
     
  46. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    With the -followaitrain & -allowJump startup parameters you can "kind of" AI the player train but not as a passenger unfortunately only as an external camera, so whilst limited it's great for testing a scenario in real time (which you can also speed up using EnableAsyncKeys too) or just following your train while filling your face with Pizza or whatever.
     
  47. KodiakJac

    KodiakJac Member

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    Same here! :)

    Steam Chart Stats for TSC and TSW3...

    Train Sim World 3 - 30 Day Average Number of Players: 521.6 players
    Train Sim World 2 - 30 Day Average Number of Players: 213.4 players
    Total 30 Day Average Number of Players: 735

    Train Simulator Classic - 30 Day Average Number of Players: 835.4

    Train Simulator Classic is not going away anytime soon if it has a player base the same size as Train Sim World 3, as the base is where you generate your income from add-ons.

    The thing that hurts Train Sim World 3 for me is the sterile feeling of the world around the trains. There is just something "generic" feeling about it. While Train Simulator Classic just feels more alive with more detail and more hand drawn art. And you can zoom the camera views way out in Train Simulator Classic to enjoy the view. Train Sim World 3 won't let you zoom out very far at all which keeps the trains up in your face.

    The camera views in Train Sim World 3 are a mess IMO. The "Drive By - Key 8" view lasts about 2 seconds...no long view of the train coming down the tracks at you. And the "Follow - Key 2" view is up so close you can't really see the world around you very well. And if an object gets between you and the train in the "Follow - Key 2" view, the view suddenly jerks towards the train and back out after the object is past you. It is very hard on my eyes.

    Train Sim World 3 is more about the rivets on the trains, while Train Simulator Classic is more about the entire world, including the trains, IMO.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2022
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  48. mrscott2022

    mrscott2022 Member

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    For me, I like the "old school" railroading. The newer Train Sim World looks nice but it's about the current railroading experience, so I have no real interest in it. Also, if you can't make your own models for the sim, I won't even think of spending money on it. Trainz left the casual content creator behind. Very few are making new content for it. Most find it's no longer worth it to invest the time with all it's PBR texturing and format changes. TSC on the other hand is kind of fun to create for content once you figure out what you are doing. For some reason I find the end result of model building in TSC to be far more satisfying.
     
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  49. Dom5619

    Dom5619 New Member

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    Maybe I had a red too many :). But we were below fishing!
     
  50. Nick Y

    Nick Y Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure the order under the hobbies tab used to be:
    Fishing
    TSC
    TSW

    And now it is:
    TSW
    TSC
    Catan - Console Edition
    Fishing
     
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