Reading the forums for the past few weeks, you'd be hard pressed to find any discussions about North American railroading. I'm getting the distinct impression that TSW does not have US routes and trains in its long term future. Oh, we might get Metrolink Part 2, already in the oven, but beyond that my crystal ball is decidedly foggy. US freight seems to be out of the picture. And I can't survive on a diet of UK emu's and German red boxes alone. Should I be looking elsewhere for my virtual American train fix?
I reckon there is more chance of more American stuff than any more steam. What percentage more chance I haven't the foggiest of ideas.
Well, if we look at the American railways situation, we'll see that 75/80% of the circulating material is on freight purpose. In reality, what DTG is representing with passenger routes is only a small part of what can be seen in the US. Removing the freight routes means removing US from TSW.
Dovetail are probably hoping it will be picked up by third party developers, which is the impression I got with further steam content as well IIRC? I mean, in the end if it means better American content than what DTG can muster, I'm all for it.
It would certainly be appropriate to expand the presence of the "5 sisters" with new routes: BNSF, UP, NS, CSX and CPKC. It would also be nice to see something set on Lakes (GO?)
There is still a lot of potential i.e Baltimore, Washington, Miami and branchlines in New Jersey so I hope we see more American lines in the game.
Well there's 2 dlc on the roadmap and there's still more to the licenses there are in tsw. There is still njt, mbta, a bit more of the nec and amtrak and more of metrolink. Dtg would need more licenses or 3rd parties to match the amount of content the uk and Germany get. There's also nothing stopping people from using the editor to create stuff
It's very odd as American freight seems to be thriving in TSC (Tennessee Pass just released) and Run 8 goes from strength to strength. Yet TSW encounters a few obstacles and throws their efforts into the virtual dumpster. Even with what they already have they could be doing more. What about another period route with the F7's reskinned or the locos from Oakville? There just doesn't seem to be much incentive or innovation or even a desire to solve problems on the TSW side of DTG.
Yeah, for better or worse, between the two, TSC is still the choice if you are interested in American railroading outside of the NEC and a couple of modern routes. And on that note, Dovetail still haven't added the DPU functionality to the F7 for their TSW Clinchfield after all these years, have they?
Could it be Run8 TSC is computer games. TSW are most people consoles people. the average age is probably not that high, I guess on this consoles people and they want faster trains. Not freight trains
It is odd. Or maybe DTG just know their market ( see below ). There's some truth hidden there. Although I do know of some exceptions ( ie console players who enjoy US freight ).
Given the stuff DTG has already made, and the licenses subsumed (several already used) under UP, CSX, NS and BNSF, there should be little problem I would think in doing US vintage. About the only thing missing is old-school passenger coaches (overdue anyway). The rest is just reskinning what they have. Even that isn't necessary to do, say, C&O in the 1970s with Amtrak (FP40 + Amfleets). Which also has the advantage of dodging PTC/cab signaling.
Probably because Clinchfield soured them on vintage. It may just be that the success of BPO will cause a reassessment.
Nice prejudice. But console players like authenticity too. And American Railroading is mainly heavy freight railroading. So if DTG is really about immersion in the game, they have to make american freight to their first priority if it is about American stuff in TSW.
Some examples: Marias Pass, Tehachapi, Canyon sub., Feather River... I'll stop, otherwise I'll never finish!
I hate this generalization. Consoles have been a thing for over 40 years at this point- there are users of all ages. If i started saying "PC is really holding the game back. It's just old men and their slow ancient trains", it would be rightly and immediately called out as ridiculous.
I think US freight content has two major problems: DTG has problems getting proper access to trains and track for reference. This seems to be caused by the strong security rules the freight companies have (which is a bit funny considering that most parts of the US network still lack any form of train protection) US freight routes are quite special content. What I mean that US freight mostly consists of driving a slow, heavy and long train from A to B without any real challenge except the skills needed to prethink your actions due to the delay of the actions throughout the train. I think outside of the North American community, these routes seem rather boring, as we are used to much denser and faster networks. And if you're mostly used to European freight, US freight is really hard to get into driving well. The combination of these two factors leads to a harder development of a route (long travel and restricted access) whilst German and British routes have a higher revenue in return (if No. 2 applies to the real situation). I'm German and like to run these heavy freight trains from time to time, but they're by far not my most played routes. It just get's to monotonous and boring to quick. I hope that we can get a good replacement for US freight, with similar running characteristic but maybe easier access by the companies. Australia seems to be an interesting option, as the locos are either US imports or pretty similar, whilst having their own unique design. Also Australia is very unrepresented in the world of train simulation. It would be a USP for TSW to have some Aussie content.
I can say, as an European rail freight driver, that managing an American freight transport is problematic for me. Trains 5/6 or even 10 times longer than ours. Significant masses and essentially standard rolling stock: a bit like our old diesel trains. It took me a long time to understand how to operate an Amercian train. The basic logic is totally different.
I have to admit i am not a fan of American diesel freight and passenger routes in general, too slow and also hard to control the trains as well, Australia has some interesting routes in the major cities and the legendary XPT that would be great to drive on TSW if it would be possible with licensing.
[QUOTE="Should I be looking elsewhere for my virtual American train fix?[/QUOTE] i been thinking about jumping on trainz 22 wagon. third parties been pumping out alot of US dlc latey and it look good. will see after these two US dlc get released that on road map.
When it comes to TSW, sure I have my go to’s but I’m here for a mix with pretty near utmost realism, I certainly don’t want to see all one thing.
I simply don't buy this. DTG has 7 years worth of US locos plus all the licenses it needs in its library and plenty of reference material for route building. The only reason for abandoning US freight ( and maybe passenger ) I can think of is that it's not profitable. If that's the case, just flat out say so and be done with it.
they are struggling to get access to record the trains, people want authentic sounds, DTG haven’t been able to secure permission to access the trains to record them at decent speed etc for it. License is just the look. They can do them either wrongly or mute currently without that access.
And what about all the locos with their sounds that we already have in the game?? Some of them are less than perfect, but that's true of UK and German locos too. Sorry, say what you will, I simply don't accept that US freight has to stop so abruptly. There's something else afoot.
The current US freight are all not accurate to what I know off, other trains in the game, some have been properly accessed others not. People ain’t happy with incorrect sounds and physics and it’s increasing especially among US freight fans.
there’s more factors than usual, sales/their main market, sales will decrease more (more impacting if they were just say hitting the bar beforehand) if they ain’t selling due to issues of not being done as accurately as possible hence do it right or not, then their market is also looking for authenticity over the general get it ok. if the general consensus and DTG was happy to put out incorrect sounds and physics then this wouldn’t be a topic and they could fake everyone of them and back to what it was before, but that’s increasingly not accepted. it’s similar to a license issue, if they get access the problems gone.
It's the combination of the missing access and missing revenue, as i assumed aboth. DTG have made US content for many years, just as you said. So what other reason would there be to abondon US freight just now? For now it seems we'll get US passenger lines. But there aren't that many either, except you want to have most of the routes set in the Northeast. So either DTG can get access to the locos or we have to look for a replacement for US (or most probably North American) content. Yes it's sad and disapointing for US railfans, but I think as long as we can get similar services to the US route (long and heavy freight, running for long distances non-stop) I think this is a fair replacement, even if it's not in the United States.
You're simply spouting the DTG line. I get that. As I have said repeatedly, I'm simply not convinced. Leave it there, please..
Ow, thanks for that. I wonder if they'd be worried about doing that affecting their current and potential future relationships with the rail companies. It probably doesn't hurt that DTG is respectful of their territory, as it were. A parallel would be American musician/comedian "Weird Al" Yankovic, who's best known for his parodies of current hits. He's not technically required to get permission from the original artists for his parodies under Fair Use, but he always makes a point of doing so anyway.
DTG must be secret dragons and they are out to get America (sorry but some conspiracies especially when talking a current lack of a certain country’s routes are just insanity to cover they are stubborn to accept it’s not happening at the moment for different reasons)
could be, I don’t think licences want to be associated with bad products if they start becoming known, there’s no reason for them to stay attached to such a reputation.
I mean, I can understand that US railfans are angry right now. And I would have never chosen to abandon one of the core countries to get something else. If it stays at "no more US freight routes", I hope DTG will use this opportunity to introduce something we didn't have before. Just Germany (including Austria), the UK and US passenger would be a loss. But for now let's just see what DTG will announce and deliver in the next monts. San Bernadino should have freight too and there's still a non-specified US route on the roadmap.
they will probably stick with US passenger for US routes, with current freight trains layering on where they can. Though they seem to be opening back to branching out further into other countries again in the near future going by a recent stream. Likely in rotation of similar to this (US/GE/UK/other country) sure theirs the sentiment of not liking the situation, but if DTG want their trains done as close to real as possible that’s the real world issue of getting allowed to them, denial and wild conspiracies ain’t getting the freight routes back going faster nor helping anyone understand why.
Whoa, that's not what I meant at all. I certainly don't think TSW is a bad product. I was talking about DTG showing respect to the train companies whether they have a license from them or not.
Only problem is SB doesn't have any thru freights for the entire line, and the majority of freight work is BNSF local stuff around Kaiser yard, and we know that TSW doesn't really represent local switching operations well on their freight routes, especially with multiple uncoupling and coupling, since the player is pretty much hand held thru the entire process (Looking at you Holiday Express) Only real bright point I see right now is DTG can easily jump between New York and Southern California for a few years with the licenses they already have. LIRR still exists, just not said Then We have Metrolink's San Bernardino line DTG then can go back to NY and make either a MTA or NJT route Then back to SoCal for Metrolink or Amtrak Surfliner etc.... Only problem is, how long can they keep that up before players get bored of the 2 areas?
The American freight in TSW suffers IMO, because it is really poorly implemented, rather than it being because of its real-life nature. It is seriously missing any variety - by now pretty they should have all mainline loco types and when new operator releases, make them in their livery and configuration. The fact that SMH only has SD70ACes and sometimes a wild AC44 pop-up is hilarious. Horseshoe with D9s? NO ET44s anywhere? If that was sorted, you would instantly have a lot more replayability because you could try different locos and have a mix of power behind you. Foreign power could also be a thing then. Same goes for freight cars - they even have a plethora of liveries already, but Cajon still came with monolithic UP autoracks and artificially clustered manifest trains. It looks horrible, it looks fake. And then there are services - even routes with many sidings and industries feature mostly A-B runs split into two and just a shunt or two. There is no variety in it. Fix these problems and US freight would be booming. But that's probably too much effort...
And they also need to look at the gameplay strategy for US freight. In terms of running trains it is much less regimented than passenger or even freight ops in the UK or Germany. I hate to keep throwing Run 8 in the ring, but once you have your local formed up, how and in what order you switch the industry spurs is entirely up to you. The step by step hand holding and sequencing in TSW doesn’t lend itself very well at all. And in Run 8 you are part of a dynamic world. Those industry cars you dropped off in the morning will be loaded or unloaded later in the day or next day, so need picking up and taking back to the yard for sorting into outbound manifests. Which in turn need to be assigned power, a destination and sent on their way. All the switching I’ve done in TSW has seemed a bit, well, pointless. Move several rakes of cars from one end of the yard to another and you’re done, no greater purpose.
Also makes me wonder - they always say they don't want to do boring flat routes for freight, but those usually mean fast running... I wonder how interesting it could be to have a real flat thrash route or network of such routes in, let's say, Kansas. Because all the interesting routes they try to make end up being slow because of turns and grades.
Fairly sure I have suggested something similar in the past, even the BN Funnel from Sandpoint to Spokane would combine fast running, with nice scenery and there was a local the RATL which worked out of Hauser Yard. Set in the 90’s when the line was a mixture of double and single track. Would be almost perfect. Or another would be part of the St Louis to Kansas City mega route, maybe SL to Jeff City. So absolutely no need to fixate on California or the North East.
Maybe that new promotional video that is clearly aimed at the US market* to attract new players will do its job, extend the game’s reach in the US, and DTG can show that there is an equal demand for more US content as there is for European content and that it is profitable. If each and every DLC has to have a sound business case, which I guess it might, only more demand will secure that development goes ahead. *American accent, American pronunciations, American terms used throughout in the voiceover. There has to be a reason for that.
I have about given up hope as far as US freight in future TSW.. I just enjoy what there already is just use free roam to create my own trains i make up my own switch runs etc.. I m looking into getting a decent gaming PC so i can get my freight and better US content elsewhere .. Freight content has no future on consoles . We are well into TSW 4 cycle not 1 of the promised US routes has been released probably have to wait till summer for the Metrolink San Bernadino route .The LIRR 2 i wonder if that will be pushed off till TSW 5 or whatever TSW 4 s successor is..I bought TSW for the US freight on console but the lack of new freight US content may make me put TSW in the deadline ,
The other problem with US freight on the consoles is the lack of available button mashes for the more complex control system. It can also be fiddly using the waggle sticks to hit the sweet spot instead. Just trying to cancel the bell after sounding the horn gets a bit tedious, then so far as braking is concerned you have to scroll through the three different types with the square button, on PS5. So console TSW, yes great for driving one handle commuter trains, not so good for locos. Even the Class 37 on TVL is a PITA as there’s no joypad command I’m aware of for the main switch, which then sits neatly behind the power controller so you can’t actually hit the hotspot with the stick movement.
Yeah, a fast-running freight line, like the Kansas-Topeka Dovetail did for TSC, would be a nice change. But, just my 2 cents, complaining about American freight/routes being "slow" and all is kinda like complaining that the water is wet. It's the nature of the beast (huge grades and huge trains) and the reason for it's appeal for many of us, I'd say. If they did a flat fast line like Kansas, I'm sure the complaints would be that it's another A-to-B route with nothing to do.
I didn’t say TSW was a bad product, please point to where I even said TSW ? I was speaking in general hence no name.
That's why more of a freight network could be interesting, a bunch of yards and shorter mainline pieces, that the traffic interacts with.
Who really wants to operate a us freight train when the locomotives might be somewhat good. Sounds and Visual. But having every single car say CSX or BNSF or NS on them takes the authenticity of true railroading out. Thats where I thought livery designer would solve it. But TSW lacks a good randomizer system. I own every single us freight route and just dont have interest to play anymore.
I think that while TSW will always be more scripted than Run8 (though I suspect that the real degree of freedom given to crews lies somewhere between the two) it could give a lot more context to freight services. Just expanding on why you're doing something in the service descriptions would do a lot, I feel.
I started this thread to try and generate a discussion on US rail in TSW. Thanks to everyone for joining the discussion. I think that what DTG says in next week's Roadmap will be key to the future of US content. Maybe there'll be good news, maybe not. Or maybe just the continuing silence, which I would take as a " no ". Ironic for me is that the TSW game began with an American freight route of high quality, a standard which has not been matched since and now may never be equalled.
