Is Tsw2 Dead In The Water?

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by dangerousdave, Aug 2, 2022.

  1. dangerousdave

    dangerousdave Well-Known Member

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    Thanks mate. Atleast someone has a straight answer.
     
  2. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    The point of the minimum specs is not if you can buy the parts or not but what the game can run on. It seems now you have a ready made excuse if someone has a problem, 'well you do not meet minimum specs'.

    And your explanation concerning TSW2 is just an attempt at being polite, yes TSW2 is dead. But now it is dead can DTG release a toolkit for it so the modders can get to work on it? This would then show the full potential of the game but we all know this won't happen as DTG would be hugely embarrassed.
     
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  3. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    Well it's a good thing they haven't touched the minimum specs.

    Cheers
     
  4. grumypop51

    grumypop51 Member

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    So, in short, yes we will be left stranded. Thanks for the clarification, if nothing else.
     
  5. grumypop51

    grumypop51 Member

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    Nothing new here. I've actually had the 'well you don't meet minimum specs' excuse in the past.
     
  6. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    The processors listed as "minimum spec" are eight years old, so if anyone has a desktop older than that maybe they should be upgrading anyway, so the only thing DTG DO have over a lot of people is the "no mobile or laptop processors", and that probably does do for a fair amount of people
     
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  7. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    I’ve today deleted all my TSW 2 content and save file in readiness for TSW 3. Bring on the future of Train Sim World.
     
  8. CryPosthuman

    CryPosthuman Member

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    I can't assess the whole community, but I am mostly sure, that the core community would be fine with DTG when they would say "We want to completely stop the DLC production for a bug fixing sprint - put the whole available team for a transparent amount of time on bug fixing sprints.

    When DTG would drop its pride and surrender to a "together with the community" (which brought SCS to its place, where they are today), the whole situation could be better. For me, the guys in the live streams always need to act, as if DTG is in a close connection to the community, but if we are honest: Nobody has any clue, what really goes on in the dev team.
     
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  9. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    JD is paid to be the mouthpiece of DTG and when in "Sales mode" he's not likely to pull back to "where is the save function, what about night lighting, where are the bug fixes" when trying to get the UK people to spend £30 on something, of which they already own the bit most directly related to them
    Matt is exec producer who has the most control and input over what goes on, but on stream he sounds more and more removed from what is actually being developed (a la his comments around the sound production). Don't expect him to know the ins and outs of everything his team does, but he in theory is the one leading people where it should be going
    Adam sounds like a nice guy, but I'm sure he's more of a "grease monkey" than a direction setter
    None of them seem to have the power to make the development go in the direction the community wants - laughable phrase as many people want different things, but I think everyone wants the core game to work, for the game to be signalled correctly and consistently and for the game to move forward in several ways
    That's not really happened in six years

    It seems odd to me that they would get the whole team from Sam and Matt downwards to go through the menus with a fine toothcomb, and yet they can't get the game to save and restore properly, even if they took a "brute force approach" to begin with (ie save every single state for every single asset) and then pull back from there
     
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  10. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I have to say watching the portion of the stream last night, Matt looked a bit apprehensive and distracted.

    JD is effectively trying to sell you that Ford Sierra with the sawdust in the gearbox, putty filled holes in the bodywork and the mileage wound back by 30k! :)
     
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  11. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

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    Well, they said they were doing that. And it turns out that was an outright lie.
     
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  12. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Well a white lie…

    The improvements are TSW3 which you have to buy over again, oh and as part of our improvements and core fixes, the save game has been taken away and oh none of the existing TSW2 routes will actually look or run any better. And you’ll need a NASA super computer to run it on.
     
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  13. dangerousdave

    dangerousdave Well-Known Member

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    Although tsw3 will run on older machines. Check out this bargain below

    https://www.overclockers.co.uk/8pac...9-10980xe-intel-core-i7-10700k-fs-006-8p.html

    Only 29k for a 10th generation intel cpu.
     
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  14. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    They didn’t say that exactly. What they said was that there was a lull in production while external companies made the routes for them which gave them an opportunity to go back and fix some issues. That was followed up with the statement that they would be looking only at issues from Rush Hour onwards. That’s not the same as completely stopping production and fixing all the bugs which is what some people thought it would mean. They didn’t tell us that they were also working on TSW3 but I don’t actually think any outright lies were told.
     
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  15. DANtheWALLY

    DANtheWALLY Member

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    Well I'm confused because what exactly is making the route marketable. Surely if there's high demand for certain routes like ecml/wcml they'll do well. I'm not sure how much effect the community has on the route decisions though.

    Also I've seen alot of complaining about multiplayer but please don't turn dtg to not even make it at all because some people would like it and if you aren't a fan then just play the single player. Because personally I'm not the biggest fan of ecml/wcml but I support its what alot of people want and dtg should hopefully deliver on that.
     
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  16. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Not sure why you would do this, seems premature.
    Are you planning on purchasing TSW3 and drawing a line under TSW2, not transferring your existing dlc to the new game?

    That's your prerogative, of course, but the danger I see here is that once people have the new game they will largely forget TSW2 and its problems.
    I hope DTG is not counting on this, because we still need to insist that all the bug fixing still takes place, including bringing RH features to routes like BLM in TSW2.
    Players who, for one reason or another, decide not to buy TSW3 should not be penalized or left behind.
     
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  17. gazz292

    gazz292 Well-Known Member

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    ya know... that Mat_Jam_Ca sounds to be trying too hard... almost as if they are being paid to say good things about TSW3... or hoping to get the game free for being one supporter who keeps telling us how good it's going to be.

    And surely if they love TSW so much, they'd be playing TSW2 right upto the release day of TSW3, then transfer over, not going a few weeks with no TSW at all, something dosent add up here.
     
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  18. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    Agree but will add that I see most bugs in TSW2 still continuing in TSW3. I'm not convinced the lighting is as good as they think it is but time will tell on that or they release a stream driving at midnight.
     
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  19. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    "ya know... that Mat_Jam_Ca sounds to be trying too hard..."
    Nothing like a good conspiracy theory.

    You guys are sure getting your money worth on the forums if not in game ...
    Just consider TSW3 as a bonus!
     
  20. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    I’ll still be playing my TSW 2 content when the TSW 3 compatible versions are released. The current DLC downloads won’t work on TSW 3, you’ll need to download the new ones.
     
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  21. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely not. I’ve criticised DTG where criticism is due - just look at the threads I’ve created - including the very popular Open Letter to DTG thread.

    TSW 3 releases in just a few weeks. I’ve been taking a break from TSW 2 because of the PS5 DLC limit, which again, I’ve criticised.

    PS. I’ve already pre-ordered TSW 3 Deluxe spending my own, hard earned money.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2022
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  22. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn’t expect the TSW2 routes to look or run better in TSW3. I would like them to but as they were sold as TSW2 routes for the TSW2 platform, there is no reason to expect them to. At least they will be compatible from day one and we will be getting dynamic weather for them.
     
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  23. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    TSW2 is dead now. It’ll get what’s on the roadmap now but then it’ll be dropped as quickly as TSW2020. It just doesn’t make any sense to do anything else from an economic point of view. We may like or dislike this but that’s what’s about to happen.


    If you’ve been active on the forums for a long time, you should know that’s not the case. Mat_Jam_Ca has been one of the most outspoken critics of DTG at some points in the past (certainly in the PlayStation forum). Besides, the forum members are such a negligible part of the target audience that it wouldn’t make sense to hire someone to post positive things about TSW3.
     
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  24. mattchester#9176

    mattchester#9176 Active Member

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    Since currently your progress won’t transfer over to TSW3 is actually does make sense to not play any more services until release, that way there is less to re-do. I know this feature is being reviewed but I think it will go the way of the PS4 to PS5 transfer and come to nothing, so personally I’ve just accepted it’s time to start over.

    The bonus is that a lot of the routes have been upgraded by the preservation crew so at least I get to enjoy the new features while I re-play them.
     
  25. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Well, it still would make sense to work on Mastery challenges, if interested, because apparently those will transfer over
     
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  26. mattchester#9176

    mattchester#9176 Active Member

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    That's true, but since they are fairly easy to get I guess most of use have achieved these already.
     
  27. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Why not continue playing just for the pleasure of driving trains? Burying TSW2 before we even know how the new version will play is shortsighted in my view.

    Oh, I'm sorry. I forgot that getting those gold stars, progress, mastery and collecting fluffy, green dinosaurs is the real point of the game. Silly me!

    Pardon me if I keep driving. Frankly, I don't have a notion what my progress is, nor do I care.
     
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  28. arek#2842

    arek#2842 Well-Known Member

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    And that I don't get. You've opened the thread Open Letter to DTG where you're clearly demand for the mountain high issues of TSW2 to be finally dealed with by DTG and stopped to contantly being dodged.

    Now TSW3 has been announced and you are spending 60 units of whatever currency has been used to buy the game which you know will be poluted with all the bugs you've call in the Open Letter to DTG thread to be finally dealed with.

    I simply don't understand the logic behind it. What is the point of your criticism while nevertheless there will be any significant improvement or not, you'll still buy the flawfull product?
     
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  29. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    Because, ultimately, I get enjoyment from the game. Not only that, but since my open letter, DTG has introduced the Xbox Beta Team and redirected Adam’s team to fixing bugs that are identified in TSW 3. I’m giving them the benefit of the doubt. However, my loyalty will be severely tested if TSW 3 turns out badly. It’s up to DTG to retain my business going forward.
     
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  30. arek#2842

    arek#2842 Well-Known Member

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    You mean the bugs that have been identified in TSW2 and will be adressed in TSW3.

    But if I've understand your intension of your open letter to DTG corrctly, you wanted to motivate them to fix them in TSW2, not in another instance of the game and to be charged for those fixes. Is that right?

    Or your intesnion was just to motivate DTG to finally fix those game breaking issues regardless if those fixes will be provided free of charge or you'll be charged for them?
     
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  31. pinxtonpaws

    pinxtonpaws Active Member

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    ...but one of those is for the benefit of an entirely different product to what you were originally commenting about and the other was kind of enforced because there was no longer a need for the preservation team, so you could argue that, where TSW2 is concerned, not a great deal has changed since the 'open letter....' thread materialised.
     
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  32. afg.buijk

    afg.buijk New Member

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    I got a serious problem with this.

    Effectively this means that it can occur that a bug in TSW2 is never fixed but that it is fixed in TSW3. In other words, you expect your end users to pay for a new game to actually fix up the bugs in TSW2? I mean it is not that the consideration process if a fix is implemented in TSW2 is transparent.

    I would appreciate it, no I expect, that DTG keeps itself to the end user agreement which states that the applicable law prevails. The applicable law in Australia expects that a product is sold without faults, without misleading and deceptive conduct (on the roadmap) and without unconscionable conduct (in relation to "forcing people to pay for a bug free experience).
     
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  33. arek#2842

    arek#2842 Well-Known Member

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    Actully, it even worse than that, because those bugs will still NOT be fixed at the moment of TSW3 release, so, basically you're not paying for the fixes (which would already be ridiculous) - you're paying for the PROMISE those bugs will be fixed in the future.
     
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  34. pinxtonpaws

    pinxtonpaws Active Member

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    TSW2 and TSW3 are completely different games so you're not paying for bugfixes, you're paying for the next instalment in the series.
     
  35. arek#2842

    arek#2842 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, you're right.

    But really nobody here has any problem with the fact that all TSW2 bugs will be populated to TSW3 and present at the moment of the release?
    Release of the new game that you actually already know will be bugged?
    And the fact that you're paying for faulty product with only a mare promise that it will be fixed in the future to the state it should be at the moment of release?

    Will tou actually enjoy those new routes when you'll met good, old red light issue or random derailment?
     
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  36. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Unless the preserved collection updates get released before the TSW3 launch players will soon have the choice of playing the broken Peninsula Corridor route in TSW2 or playing the broken Peninsula Corridor in TSW3, or even to go and play a less broken version in TSW2020 if they still have it. It used to be one of my favourite routes but I haven’t played it in nearly two years except a couple of times to see if it was still very broken which it is. It really has been an unacceptable wait to have it in a playable state and currently they are proudly telling me I can drag its rotting corpse into TSW3 on launch. Flowery language I know but how else should I phrase how the route feels to me now? Some bits of TSW2 have felt dead for quite some time and desperately need reanimating. I know that Pen Corr is down for huge Pres Crew update but waiting for the release is like waiting for Godot.
     
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  37. gazz292

    gazz292 Well-Known Member

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    I don't get this either,
    this game is supposed to be about driving the train, it's supposed to be a train driving simulator,

    i will drive the same service over and over getting better at it each time, thats what simulating being a train driver is about, learning the route, learning the safety systems, learning where you need to start braking at the different speeds for a stations stop, how far along the platform you need to be in the cab for the arse end of the train to be on the platform and so on,
    handling your freight train correctly so you don't derail on that set of bad points, or run away down a hill due to bad management of the brakes.


    Yes i will flip between routes, but i aim to learn them all, know where i need to get to line speed asap and keep it so i'll beat the train on the converging track ahead and not be held at a signal, or know when to hold back on the speed so my station dwell time is not 5+ minutes when it should be 1.



    it seems that some people treat this game like pokemon, and the train driving bit is just a background thing, maybe thats the only way to get younger people into this kind of game, constant rewards and things to collect to take their mind of the ''shame of owning a train driving game'' .... if your friends find out you like trains you can say you only play it for the collectables, medals and high score?


    Simulations are not supposed to be like a platform game, there should be no 'completing the game' as if you were playing super mario.
    i still drive the original Berlin route 92 in Omsi, there my aim is to keep my drivers record clean and get as few complaints from the passengers as possible, and be on time at the stops (remembering i have every excuse to be late, but no excuse to be early)
     
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  38. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that's precisely what happened when the switch from TSW2020 to TSW2 occurred. It's not exactly a new business practice with DTG.

    It always makes my day when someone brings up the law again. Please, try suing DTG and tell me how it goes.

    Why can't other people enjoy TSW in their way and not just in yours? I certainly don't need collectables and rewards and highscores etc. (I'm an avid player of Zusi which doesn't have any of these) but I still care about keeping my progress just because it's nice to see what I have and haven't done and how much mileage I have on different locos.
     
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  39. gazz292

    gazz292 Well-Known Member

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    oh i know different people see this game differently to me... i came over from TSC and expected a driving simulator... i've always had the steam overlay stuff turned off, so i guess i missed similar game like stuff happening there,

    i don't like how unless i turn the HUD totally off in TSW i can't get rid of the achievements, like driving xx.x many kms that matches the trains number and you get a popup in the middle of the screen, or being told i've earnt a medal for pressing a switch for the first time.

    The mileage traveled on the different loco's isnt an award thing tho, it should be part of our drivers record that tells this info, along with how many times we've run late / early, driven badly and tripped a safety system etc.

    but i can drive a timetabled run, make a mistake and get a PZB emergency brake event, and still get a medal at the end... i should be sent back to route learning / train handling school and a bad mark put on my drivers record for that.
     
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  40. grumypop51

    grumypop51 Member

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    And paying big dollars for trains we already own?! Cajon Pass is pretty much reskinning locos we have. Route lengthening and new lighting, plus AI passengers with sense enough to wear appropriate clothing for the weather is all we are being offered.... I wonder how those with umbrellas will cope with getting into trains, or will they simply be bugged and sit down complete with brolly up? :D
     
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  41. grumypop51

    grumypop51 Member

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    Whereas IRL, we'd be fired, were we to incur too many penalties!
     
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  42. Jpantera

    Jpantera Well-Known Member

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    Uninstall last night on TSW2, I have all the recommended specs for it but as it's done as far as advanced features go (bar dynamic weather) I prefer to have an editor and free roam mode. Will watch the progress of TSW3 and wish it well as I know DTG are putting in a lot of effort. I don't get why people are being very hostile towards them.
     
  43. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

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    I’m afraid you’re going to be sorely disappointed if you’re expecting a new game. There is absolutely nothing in TSW3 that couldn’t have existed in TSW2. It is exactly the same game on exactly the same engine and all the ‘new’ features are just part of UE4 that DTG have enabled. Some of them (dynamic weather, thunder, lightening etc) were already accessible on PC by way of mods. They’re nice to have, but it actually makes very little difference to the gameplay. All this fluff about it ‘keeping you on your toes’ is just that, marketing fluff.

    DTG are doing their usual thing of making small changes and rebranding and marketing those changes to make it seem like they’re more than they are. They’re effectively forcing you to buy TSW3 if you ever wish to buy TSW content going forward and I think it’s very sketchy indeed. If you believe what you’re paying for is a completely new game then you’re being taken for an absolute mug.

    The only things that are actually properly new are the training centre (which is just a ‘route’ they’ve made to anchor locos to and rectify a fundamental design flaw of their own making) and the UI which, from what I’ve seen so far, still looks clunky, pretty poorly laid out and not a great deal better than what is there already.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2022
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  44. pinxtonpaws

    pinxtonpaws Active Member

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    Yes, I am already aware that TSW3 is pretty much the same core game with added & enhanced features - a point which I've already expressed my dismay to elsewhere; not for the game itself (what has been shoe-horned into #3 is pretty decent) but the fact that TSW2 issues are been carried forward into TSW3.

    My belief remains unchanged: DTG should have closed down TSW2 in such a way that it was of the best achievable condition because:
    (1) some people are only going to make the upgrade when it is right for them (finances, more relevant DLC etc etc) so it's kind of important that they can still play their pre-existing content in the way DTG originally intended.
    (2) It puts the 'new' game on a much surer footing.
    Neither is going to occur so not only does it start TSW3's life under the same cloud of uncertainty that we all loathed in TSW2, by prioritising new over old in the 'when things may or may not get fixed' pecking order it also deeply offends those who have waited patiently for issues to be resolved.

    In hindsight though I perhaps should have shortened that quote for a little more clarity. I do understand what the poster was saying (and largely agree with his grievance) but my point was aimed more towards the "paying for bugfixing" thing tagged onto the end of the EULA / legal mumbo-jumbo stuff. On first reading it didn't seem particularly applicable because TSW2 and TSW3 are two separate entities and I was merely pointing that out. I do now accept that it does (albeit loosely) carry a little more weight than I first realised so my bad, I will happily suffer the wrath for that oversight :cool:

    And finally....fear ye not, I am not been taken for a mug on this one because this time around I have zero desire to line DTG's pockets with any more of my hard-earned. I'm primarily an XBox gamer and for once the train gods have looked upon us in a much more favourable light than other platforms and I absolutely am going to take advantage of that fact. I've made it perfectly clear that on this occasion no TSW3 purchase will be made until such a time when I am completely safe in the knowledge that DTG are doing their fixy fixy bit AND not jacking up DLC prices in the process.....so Gamepass it has to be.

    Well, I'm off out into the sunshine now because after today the rivers will fill, grass will become green again, the eco-warriors will go back to clogging up the M25 and we will be once again in the throes of winter.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2022
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  45. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

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    That’s all fair points. Just to clarify, when I said ‘you’ it was a generic you rather than you specifically but I totally get it doesn’t come across like that.

    Reading these multiple threads it’s pretty obvious that there a significant number of people who think they’re buying a new game, either because they’re new to TSW or haven’t seen the way DTG have done things in the past. I can only hope there are enough warnings out there now that people do understand what it is they’re actually paying for.

    With that said, bring on the rain!
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2022
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  46. hyperlord

    hyperlord Well-Known Member

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    I noticed I'm doing that the last 4 years so it's a recurring issue

    Great post btw!
     
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