As we all know TSW4 has been a contraversial announcement, due to some users fustrated about having to buy another Train Sim World just over a year later from the last. And the route selection let many people down. The route selection and 1 train per route didn't really interest me at first, but after DTG announced Scenario Planner 2.0, Livery Designer 2.0 and the Editor, as well as loads of amazing improvements I was hyped. Was any other people's reaction similar? In my opinion TSW3 didn't bring much, some new clouds, a new menu and some new graphical effects didn't justify a new game, and the route selection became a bit uninteresting after a while of playing. Only a handful of TSW2 bugs were fixed, Some updates in the TSW3 roadmap still haven't come yet such as Baby Bullet services on Oakville Subdivision. But some good things have come with TSW3 such as the new menu which was WAY better than the TSW2 menu, the new sounds for SEHS trains are great and the improved catenary improved immersion, but IMO that didn't need to be a new game, TSW3s routes could have been in a rush hour style pack, and the features could have been a free update to TSW2, so players who had no interest in the new routes could still enjoy the new lighting, weather and menu. TSW3 could have been just like TSW4, with amazing new features, and loads of improvements, but instead TSW3 felt like just another TSW2 but updated. TSW4 feels like a new game in the franchise. I think the reason why so many people are upset at TSW4 is because they are tired of buying another TSW a year later, and expect that buissness model to continue. Not because they aren't greatful (at least most are) or feel entitiled to recive free products. The hate for TSW4 seems to be because of TSW3, and the people complaining about the complainers aren't much better than them as everyone should be entitled to their own opinion IMO. So what do you think? Was TSW3 unnecessary, or was it's release as an entirely new game the right decesion?
That is the contentious issue and is just as appropriate a question to apply to TSW4 as well as to TSW3. As yet insufficient focus has been devoted to communicating these reasons or indeed the validity of the statement highlighted in bold above to the community. If compelling reasons are given by DTG communications, even if highly technical, these then filter down to the collective understanding. At present this is lacking and so frustration manifests itself. There is a disconnect between the shiny new stuff that's visible and the technical requirements for a new core platform. Much is known of the former, hardly anything of the latter. This thread can prove useful in focussing and drilling down on these advantages, but it also runs the risk of becoming another echo chamber of frustration. If I were you, I'd narrow the focus a little in your frames of reference. Many people harbour the suspicion that the lack of a technical justification is evidence of the lack of one. This then cultivates mistrust and produces the kinds of reactions we've seen. It would appear to be relatively straightforward to approach these concerns head on and the absence of that only goes to fuel the confirmation bias that lack of a response is evidence of the lack of one available. Its a vicious circle really.
Now that I've seen that a new version doesn't mean you have to wait 2 years to get improvements to the game I don't think TSW4 is what TSW 3 should have been. It's just a different method of distributing improvements. If you roll out 100 features every 2 year you stress the support team after launch more than when you roll out 50 features every year. So yes I do understand how it feels like TSW3 should have been TSW4. TSW feels more complete now
In my view, TSW2, 3 and 4 are essentially the same game with a different menu. Same game engine, just different fluff applied to newer routes.
In the absence of any official DTG explanation to the contrary, this is how it appears. When you look at the table in the link below, combined with the following text on what constitutes an obsolete product, its difficult to argue otherwise, and its easy to understand why people perceive it as a cash grab (however accurate or not that might be). "What is considered a legacy Train Sim World game? Legacy Train Sim World games are those that are no longer being updated. This includes… Train Sim World 2020 Train Sim World 2 Train Sim World 3" "Will Train Sim World 3 continue to receive updates? There will be a short window after the release of Train Sim World 4 where Train Sim World 3 will receive updates focused on improvements to tutorials, scenarios and the Trenton – New York timetable. After this time, there will be no further updates." Table showing applicability of upgrades- volumetric fog etc. Train Sim World Add-On Guide & Acronyms : Dovetail Support (freshdesk.com)
Yes it's the same game, same engine, same routes, same locos. It's indeed again filled with trains. What a bummer. I also would have expected they would have been tired with all the trains by now and would have given us boats instead of trains. I don't understand why everyone thinks it would be more fair to see me yet another year shouting at my TV screen that they should have changed this and this by now. That would have been really unfair. That would have been the biggest injustice the world has ever seen.
I think someone is being facetious, not to mention missing the point and opportunity presented by the discussion. It's an opportunity to have the technical merits of TSW4 presented and explained, thereby removing a lot of the mistrust present on the forums. So far the presentations have been heavily weighted on visuals, volumetric fog, raindrops and other upgrades. While welcome, these do not in and of themselves explain the need for TSW4. I'd hoped for better in terms of the quality of contribution to the conversation tbh.
Looking very much forward to tsw4, only real downside for me is (compared to many players not the paywall), its the fact we now probably know the reason for the heavy quality drop 5 months ago starting with the shambolic timetable of ny trenton. (running out of time ...constantly.!). At least with the new tools, the community has the ability to make way better scenarios and probably same interesting timetables. My favourite for tsw 4 will be the Voralberg route. TSW3 was for me like Tsw2.5, especially new introduced features should be standard for all future routes. Whats the point of advertising & introducing nice things like wet platforms, reflective signs etc etc when its an entire lottery what might left away again with the next release. From this point of view TSW3 was never justified in my opinion, that was just barely enough things to call it a big core update. I really hope with tsw 4 the tonns of locomotive versions disappear and they will keep the most updated one. And even if they keep them, its really difficult to tell which dosto you are selecting in the scenario planner, its just a bunch of names which gives not a chance to find the right one without wasting time on a test.
Certain things like free roam, scenario planner 2.0 and new hud settings should really have been there from the start in TSW2. But I think it's the management who are to blame rather than the dtg employees. They didn't allocate enough time to improve these quality of life features.
I am really missing the point about the number thing. I really do. I really don't get that argument. Sure there are games that make a new version from scratch and call it Version 2. But there are also games that keep on improving each year on the same game with the same engine and only improve step by step and call it version 14 instead of giving you something entirely different after a long hiatus. What I do get about the people that are malcontent is that it comes down to expectations. If I would not have gotten all the "fluff" I probably would have been furious because it's stuff that was high on my priority list. I probably would have said it's not worth calling TSW4 as well. Priority lists differ for everyone. Mark this post for when the next version comes and it's all stuff that was not on my priority list.
Why are you assuming that there are technical reasons TSW4's features couldn't have been added in an update to TSW3?
I'm positing it as a question, giving DTG the opportunity to address it. I thought I'd made that clear with "It's an opportunity to have the technical merits of TSW4 presented and explained, thereby removing a lot of the mistrust present on the forums." and "As yet insufficient focus has been devoted to communicating these reasons or indeed the validity of the statement highlighted in bold above ( was it's release as an entirely new game the right decesion?) to the community. If compelling reasons are given by DTG communications, even if highly technical, these then filter down to the collective understanding. At present this is lacking and so frustration manifests itself" So far, deafening silence.
I think I can explain one reason why there is a new game and it doesn’t really involve the majority of players on the forum but there are a lot more players out there than those who frequent this place. There are many players who will buy a new game but who will never buy DLC. A new game generates much more income than a DLC bundle. That was me when I played Trainz when I just got started with train simulators before discovering TSW and getting really into it. I bought the new versions of Trainz but never bought a single bit of DLC. There are many casual players around who will do this with TSW. New game = continued commercial viability of the TSW franchise. DLC bundle = no more TSW.
And again I don't get it. I highlighted the entire sentence to explain what I don't understand about the motivation behind this question. It seems like a question you ask to a person in private to get all the gist. You are asking this question to a company in public. What answer are you actually expecting? The answer will never be the answer you want. What kinda company is going to say "You might be right the product we are shipping in a few weeks was not a good decision"? The only thing you will hear them say is that it is the best product they have made until now and stand fully behind the product and then you get a list of all the improvements and some promises. Every employee will say this on a company owned website. That's why I don't understand some people think they will get the answer they wanna hear.
Thats not on me and meant kindly the point being made is not directed at you, its directed at DTG. Its wonderful that you're interested, but Im not really beholden to respond to your input in the same way that DTG seem not to be to mine.
I mean yes they are different titles, but the underlying game is the same (i.e. TSWPrototype or whatever). The new routes just have different options enabled such as new clouds, lighting and now fog.
Completely agree with this. TSW3 could have been a free update or not even labeled as an edition and instead we'd be seeing TSW3 having just been announced instead.
I think they should follow the way Sims4 does. No more new games. Dlc all the way. Continously update main game via patches. Relase dlc every 2-3 months for income.
In one word, yes. TSW 3 was just another TSW 2 update, and should have been packaged and distributed (free) as TSW2: New Skies or somesuch, like Rush Hour the year before. TSW4 is the first upgrade in three years significant enough to deserve a new version number.
But the three-route bundle serves that purpose, as in 2021. Or for that matter 2020, when TSW2 by itself was a free upgrade.
