Lack Of Tunnel Sounds And More Track Sounds Needed

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by londonmidland, Mar 22, 2021.

  1. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    One thing that has been missing from TSW is the distinct sounds you get whilst going through tunnels. Playing both SEHS and BKL with its long tunnels, it just feels and sounds completely dead, and no different to driving outside of a tunnel. The sounds themselves do not get louder at all, there’s just a very faint echo. This was a massive criticism of the Bakerloo line, as it is far too quiet in TSW compared to real life.

    In real life the sound will reverb (echo) and get significantly louder as the sound has nowhere to go, as it bounces off the tunnel walls. I’m not expert but how hard is it to add a marker or something to make it ‘trigger’ sounds fo react appropriately inside a tunnel? I’m sure TS1 did this to an extent?

    Secondly, there is barely any track noise, apart from going over junctions. Continuous welded track may not have any joints, but it still produces noise as the steel wheels come into contact with the steel rails. This can be described as ‘running’ or ‘rumble’ noise.

    If you watch this video from start to end, you’ll notice how much noise there is, particularly when going through tunnels, and especially the rail joints and echos within the tunnel. This is with a train with sealed windows, too.
     
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  2. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    I definitely agree. I am very disappointed when it comes down to the sounds on routes like BKL, and portions of the LIRR. While underground, especially on the two routes I've mentioned, you would hear Track Noise (IRL) as the Rails are (for the most part) not continuously welded, however, in the game, it just simply isn't there. It doesn't sell the experience and feeling of going through a tunnel. Because of this, I didn't latch onto the Bakerloo Line the way I thought I would when the game first released.

    I am linking some more videos to show how it's supposed to sound.

    Bakerloo Line Trains in Stations


    Bakerloo Line Ride


    LIRR Port Washington Branch (You can still hear all of the track noise between Penn and Woodside)


    The Running Sounds, and Track Noise really need to be improved across all routes, because as of this moment, it sounds unrealistic in the game and doesn't sell the experience of being on a moving train.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2021
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  3. zawal.belili

    zawal.belili Guest

    Completely agree with you.
    The sounds really lack realism, it's a shame because that's what makes the realism of a game.

    If you are playing rally game you want rally car sounds not city cars!

    I really hope that this year will be the year of the revival of sounds on TSW2 !!
     
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  4. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Bakerloo tunnels definitely do echo.
     
  5. Snek

    Snek Well-Known Member

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    The weird thing is, the echo was there in TSW1 but it's just gone in TSW2. For routes like RSN with multiple tunnels that is a huge loss and it's very noticable.
     
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  6. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Except it’s laughable at how quiet it is. If you ever get the chance to go on the Bakerloo Line in real life, you’ll realise how loud it is.

    You get ear piercing wheel flange and the rail joints and running noise which is so loud, you can barely hear the person sitting next to you whilst talking to them.

    TSW doesn’t scratch the surface in this regard. It’s like comparing a mouse squeak compared to a lions’ roar, with TSW being the former and real life being the latter.
     
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  7. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    TS1 has reverberation sounds so I am not sure why TSW hasn't, it does ruin the immersion somewhat. I do find track sounds too quiet in TSW, again they are often better in TS1, especially from third party developers.
     
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  8. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    This has been a bugbear for me for ages, there are no reasons to have poorly implemented or non-implemented sounds in Unreal, the facilities are there but they are just not used to their full extent or at all? (can't be arsed?) (probably?) I have used the Bakerloo twice since release just can't play it without realistic sounds present, but it isn't just that route it is all routes, no bridge reverb no bridge sounds, going over steel bridges, no reflection off walls and buildings close to the track etc etc etc. If they were in-game it would be a game-changer for me.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2021
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  9. mail.blackray

    mail.blackray New Member

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    I'm missing track sounds too, it's too unrealistic like trains are flying over surface
     
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  10. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    It begs the question as to why DTG still haven’t done anything regarding the track and tunnel sounds?

    They’ve been working on TSW for over 4 years now so you’d think they would’ve at least implemented some sort of realistic audio for tunnels and going over different terrain surfaces but evidently not. Everything just sounds so flat.

    Even the track joint sounds, you can only hear the wheels of the carriage that you’re sitting in. So you won’t hear prolonged track joint sounds, such as it getting louder and quieter as you go over the points.
     
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  11. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Well-Known Member

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    The last time I drove a 47 through Morley tunnel heading for Leeds, I shut off power once over the top of the gradient and all you could hear was the engine ticking over. I don't have cab sway turned on so apart from the speedometer reading, there was nothing to let you know, in the darkness of the tunnel, the train was moving at all. And that's with both windows open.
     
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  12. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    That just shows you how ridiculously poor TSW’s sounds are when there’s no change at all going through a tunnel at speed. I’m pretty sure TS1 had it from the start?
     
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  13. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    And people are surprised that many still use TS1!
     
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  14. erg73

    erg73 Well-Known Member

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    There is a nice reverberation effect if you honk the horn as you pass under Chatham station. I wonder why this sound effect is only in that particular place. It could be applied in other places such as tunnels.
     
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  15. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Come to think of it, Paddington had a reverberation effect too, although I think it was a bit OTT. Though with some tweaking, it could sound perfect.

    Why DTG hasn’t been consistent with this feature I do not know. Tunnels could benefit from this hugely.
     
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  16. GuitarMan

    GuitarMan Well-Known Member

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    On TSW 2020 there was reverb on the NTP tunnels.. it didn't seem to make the journey across to TSW2.
     
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  17. dbrunner#4864

    dbrunner#4864 Well-Known Member

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    We really need the tunnel and bridge echo back.
    @Devs from 1:08 mister Valentă HST goes full throttle inside the Glasworks tunnel.



    Just listen to those wild Valenta screams echoed trough the tunnel ! It's almost like you are next to the engine . We need this kind off audio in TSW2, since both TSW2020 and TS where capable off reverb FX.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2021
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  18. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    Because sounds have "never" been a priority just ask Matt to confirm that.
    But thankfully Sam is on our side because it is an immersion breaker the way TSW2 is at the moment, however, my expectations are not high as route sounds are back of the queue.
    And to be frank I would play and buy more if they were sorted.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2021
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  19. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    If that's true, then with all due respect, that's quite frankly a ridiculous decision on behalf of DTG and they need their priorities sorting out.

    Its no lie bad sounds are are nothing new for DTG, that is why A.P are in business and are profiting off DTG's constant shortcomings for TS1 content.

    However for TSW, there are certain DLCs which show just how important sounds are, and how much they impact the reputation of a DLC - see the Class 465. Now why can't the same effort be done for ambient sounds? We've had no improvement regarding this whatsoever and, in fact, it has gotten worse with TSW 2, in my opinion.

    Sometimes ambient sounds will randomly play out of the blue or just decided not to play at all. This is an area of the game which needs serious improvements and has been lacking for the longest.
     
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  20. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    The lack of decent track sounds and reverb is particularly apparent on Clinchfield. A 1970’s era railroad, still largely jointed track and there is hardly any rail sound, clickety clack or flange squeal.

    The counterpoint to that which actually surprised me in fact, watching Don Coffey’s latest cab ride from Earles to Drax (there’s a nice route for you, DTG), above the sound of the 66 even at idle it was actually very hard to discern any sound passing over points and crossings let alone running along the CWR. But that is a modern loco running on well aligned and maintained modern track.
     
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  21. dbrunner#4864

    dbrunner#4864 Well-Known Member

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    E
    Even modern locomotives running on perfect track still produce quite a strong sound in the cabin. You have the running (rumble) sound of the wheel contacting the rail. The rotation of the wheel and axle produces sound as wheel (these are 1T+ huge metal parts spinning at considerable speed ). You also have additional small vibrations or rattle from the drive desk or other components in the cab plus the wind noise as you catch speed. It doesn't matter how isolated the cab is these sounds are always audible and I only mentioned sounds for straight welded track
     
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  22. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    I’ve watched several of his 66 cab rides and it just highlights how quiet things are in TSW. Both the 66 itself as well as the track joint sounds. The 66 in TSW has no bass to it, it’s just so flat sounding.
     
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  23. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    There is definitely some noise on the clip, just less than I thought. Guess it depends on the camera position too, in the window or on the control desk rather than the driver’s position.
     
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  24. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    Well if those 465 sounds were left to DtG then I am pretty sure they would be below par, fortunately for us the sounds are from AP.
    As I have stated they are not a priority and as long as there is someone calling the shots who think sounds like we want are not a priority then we ain't gonna get far are we? I don't disagree with you LM I am as passionate about the subject as you are.
     
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  25. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Sounds should be a priority. They are a huge part of the game. Does dtg only want to release dlc with crap sounds?

    I do think that sounds in the game need improving. Routes like bkl are too quiet compared to reality. There should be noise when inside a tunnel and better ambient sounds overall for all routes
     
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  26. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    Agree entirely.
     
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  27. praxidike.meng

    praxidike.meng Well-Known Member

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    I would argue the sounds in general are one of the weakest aspects of this game. Latest releases show a clear improvement (like the DB BR 101), but it's still an overall lackluster experience. It's no secret that sound is integral to the immersion in any simulation, even more so for train simulation. Railway technology has a very distinct soundscape that separates it clearly from other transportation vehicles. The horns and whistles, the rumble of metal wheels on metal tracks, traction motors, (...) the distinct cacophony of all this is noticeable miles away. It's also what makes trains so interesting. There is a reason Armstrong Powerhouse is a renowned name in train simulator community and part of it is because they put great care to accurate soundscape of trains they produce.
     
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  28. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    The railway is a loud place, even with a relatively lightweight EMU. So many varying and alternating sounds whilst driving, such as tunnel reverb, track joints, going over bridges, going over level crossings, travelling in between tight restricted spaces etc etc.

    It’s sad to see DTG have done absolutely nothing to try and reproduce the majority of these noises in TSW when in TS1, as recycled and bad sounding as they may have been, was still better than the near silence we have (apart from the engine/motor of the train) in TSW.

    TSW developers - sound is absolutely one of the biggest weaknesses and improvements required in TSW. Please make it more of a priority.
     
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  29. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Unlike dtg who aim for the bare minimum at times. It´s odd that a company with less resources can do better than dtg in the sound department
     
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  30. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    And profiting immensely, at those prices.......
     
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  31. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    You can get all the fancy AP stuff but the prices soon mount up if you want some actual playable content. Huge dependency lists for products that are already at quite a high price. I sometimes wonder why anyone who has TS1 bothers with TSW because everything is better about it in their comparisons but then I remember it’s not a complete package like TSW and to get the most out if it you have to pay big for the better bits. You can make your own content with a few cheap DLC if you want but TSW sometimes has better built in content for the same kind of outlay and no dependencies to worry about except a few layers here and there. But people want AP quality at DTG prices and that just isn’t going to happen in TSW.
     
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  32. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Its odd that a company with less resources like Lamborghini can do better than General Motors in the performance department
     
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  33. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    In a way I wish we had more of a choice. I like how things are currently priced at however I wouldn't mind paying a bit more if it guarantees better sounds and/or better atmosphere, such as ambient sounds, to the route.

    The 465 sounds great and isn't too expensive however the route lets it down as there's no rush of air and boost in audio volume as you head through tunnels etc.
     
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  34. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    The difference for me is that, unless you use the woefully inadequate scenario planner you are pretty much stuck with what DTG say you can use on which route they choose. I can drive a class 117 on the GWML for example.

    Don't get me wrong, I like TSW, it looks wonderful but you are much more restricted in the freedom you have to do what you want. And, as an "uppity purist" who has a particular interest in a certain era I would rather make my own detailed scenarios and try and get them as accurate as possible rather than having what DTG provide which although good is never quite accurate enough. For me the class 101 in all three guises doesn't depict with that much accuracy how they would have one in any of its three iterations. But I realise, I am probably just strange and most people don't care. Although if the ballast is the wrong colour on a route that is a different matter.

    Therefore I spend less than 10% of my simming time in TSW and I can't see that changing soon. Maybe this new Cornish route will change that a little, then again in TS1 I have the complete line from Plymouth to Penzance which looks very acceptable and I can run whatever I want on it. And, frankly I am happy to pay more for more quality, the AP sound packs do very much enhance the experience as do the SSS packs for steam engines.

    Although DTG products in TS1 have bridge and tunnel sounds I don't see why we don't get them in TSW. Their track sounds in TS1 are generally very decent too.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2021
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  35. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    This is why TS1 is much more suited to your needs. I don’t own a PC and I’m not going to buy one for TS1 because I just don’t have the funds for one or for much of all the great content available for TS. I also much prefer a nice neat package that is fully set up without me having to go to great lengths to get what I want out of it. I used to use Trainz on a Macbook Pro and some of the things I enjoyed doing in that would be available to me in TS but I was so glad when I changed to TSW on console and I didn’t have to put in the vast amount of legwork I did with Trainz to get something approaching a fairly polished driving experience. For me what I gained was more than I lost and I can live without the hassle that TS would be for me.

    If I couldn’t live without setting up realistic scenarios and having the versatility to do more complicated things prototypically then I would be looking into TS. For those people who already have it and enjoy it, I’d say to them to spend all their time and money on TS and not to bother with TSW. I don’t think it’s ever going to have what they want in it. It’s going to remain comfortably dumbed down to an extent, and it’s always going to be a disappointment to you, if you want what is essentially catered for so well elsewhere.
     
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  36. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Well I do enjoy dipping in and having a drive from time to time. I actually suspect in time, maybe five years, maybe ten it will offer more of what I want as well as still catering for the other tastes. If we can ever make our own service mode, may never happen, that would be a huge boon, if scenario planner gets to be more detailed and comprehensive, closer to the TS1 scenario editor then that will help, they seem to be developing it.

    But yes TS1 will be the sim of choice for me for the foreseeable future but there is still enough with TSW to keep some interest and I suspect I will buy Cathcart Circle and almost certainly the Cornish route unless I don't think the stock is very representative of what they are trying to portray.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2021
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  37. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    PS4 and XBox One both debuted in 2013. Anyone want to have a crack at running TSW on a 2013 PC?
     
  38. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Lamborghini is owned by Volkswagen which is a major car company to let you know. Also GM with Corvette Racing have won the 24 Hours Of Le Mans several times, indycar championships with Chevy along with the indy 500, The 24 Hours of Daytona with a Cadillac DPI as well as the IMSA Weathertech Sportscar Championship. Hell, Corvette won the IMSA Weathertech Sportscar Championship last year in the GTLM Class. So yes GM do just fine in the performance department. Need I go on?
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2021
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  39. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Mine is from 2014 apart from my graphics card with is a Nvidia 1060, it didn't run well with my previous card. It runs okay on mostly max settings, apart from my now ailing hard drive so an upgrade is needed.
     
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  40. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    My base PC is around 6 years old now, old Z87 motherboard. I’ve upgraded the RAM over the years and changed the GPU a couple of times, albeit I’m currently back on my GTX1050 while my faulty GTX1650 is back at the vendor waiting RMA replacement, though god knows what I will get due to the crypto mining farce. Anyhow TSW2 runs well enough even with the lower spec graphics card.
     
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  41. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it is scandalous the way some people try to make a living out of their own business. :|
     
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  42. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Prices are whatever the market will bear. Armstrong Powerhouse charge what they do because enough people will purchase their products at Rolls-Royce prices. Boutique shops can do that.


    But at the same time, people here are constantly on about DTG's alleged "greed," and demanding they do things which would be financially ruinous.
     
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  43. WaveyDavey

    WaveyDavey Well-Known Member

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    Strangely though the US stuff (SPG & Clinchfield) does have some tunnel and bridge reverb but the UK stuff, if not German stuff too, doesn’t.
     
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  44. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    I think it depends which team is working on a route, which would explain the inconsistencies.
     
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  45. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Let's be honest, the whole game is far too quiet. I just did a couple of trips on the BR101 on HRR and while there's some sound from the motors and some muffled rumbles from the trucks going over switches, it's much too quiet. It's a nicely modeled loco, but it needs to be noisier, as do most trains in the game. Even my favorite route, SPG, has virtually no track sound. I grew up close to a train yard and I've always seemed to live near the railroad, as I do now; I know how noisy the railway is.
     
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  46. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    I used the trains and tube a lot from the 70's -90's (UK) and ask anyone what they remember most and it will be most likely the sounds, the smells (HST) and I remember my father taking me on the central line as a young kid and apart from the loudness, swaying, lights flickering I remember my ears 'popping' with the tunnels.

    Obviously the smells and 'ears popping' are out of DTG's remit but if they could could get close to what the real sounds were TSW2 would be onto a winner and for those who think realistic sounds are too 'expensive' why not allow say AP to release sound packs? Cause let's face it DTG are not going to produce brilliant sound overnight.

    I want to experience more realistic sounds and immersion in TSW2. I invested in a RD which helps me but I find myself playing TSW2 less and less as sound continues to be an after thought, I hope DTG listen to some of those videos at the start of the thread. I for one would invest in UK sound packs for sure.
     
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  47. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    It’s one thing that the recordings of the trains may not be very good, but there’s also the fact that, and excuse my language, TSW is, and always has been absolutely crap when it comes to ambient sounds.

    SEHS, a native TSW 2 route, has no end of sound issues. So they can’t even use the excuse of it being a preserved route to back them up on this.

    It’s clear that there’s something wrong with the way sounds are being set up. Why is it that when I’m at a station, I hear no ambient sounds whatsoever, and then when a station announcement is made, all other sounds ‘wake up’?

    DTG have had years to sort these issues out, but nothing is ever done about it.
     
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  48. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    The problem is that those "sound packs" would not be available on all platforms and for all countries' locos. This would not be in line with DTG's current policy of parity. I wish we could get a coherent explanation for the poor sounds in the game. I, for one, don't understand the problem.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2021
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  49. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I would love a explanation as well. They seem more focused on pumping out dlc's instead working on getting good sound when making dlc's from the beginning
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2021
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  50. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for creating this thread - I am a keen advocate of improving the audio in TSW, and tunnel sounds is an area that needs substantial improvement, as you quite rightly point out. On the Bakerloo Line these sounds become oppressively loud in real life, in tunnels, because the 1972 stock isn't suspended by magnetic levitation.... However, I am not sure that I would actually want the sound level to be made completely realistic in TSW..... but I would like a wider range of track sounds and echo, with a more colourful audio mix.....

    ......... and on the open section on the Bakerloo Line, at higher speeds, you should get some decent level of track sound on curves. The windscreen wiper sound should not completely overwhelm every other sound by a factor of ten to one in volume.

    But there is something else missing in TSW, which is present in TS2012. In TS2012, the XBox controller accepts rumble signals... so when you go over a crossing the controller in your hand reacts to it with a vibration. When this is done well and combined with audio feedback it can really add to the immersion (although if you are on the Wherry Lines, and every 60ft joint comes through, it can become a bit wearing).

    Modern gamepads* can provide quite a range of vibration signals, so you could get a different vibration for track joints, track gaps, and wheelslip (DB BR 101 comes to mind as a good application for this....).

    *(And, if DTG are thinking of being even more adventurous, they could program in haptic feedback for the controller....)
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2021
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