Lacking "life"?

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by markhazeldine, Dec 26, 2020.

  1. markhazeldine

    markhazeldine Well-Known Member

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    I'm fairly new to TSW2, but I can't help feeling like the game is lacking a bit of "life" in terms of other trains. I've been doing a lot of using the scenario designer and "explore on foot", and even at busy stations, there just doesn't seem to be a lot of other trains around, like I would expect. For example, on the Bakerloo Line at peak times, I've seen things like "28 minutes" to the next train at Elephant & Castle. I've walked around Jamaica station on the Long Island Railroad at what should be evening rush hour and seen one AI train in the space of 15 minutes. This just doesn't feel "right". Am I doing something wrong, or is the game just a bit crap in this respect? How do you get it to feel busy?
     
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  2. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    The amount of life is hugely dependent of what route you are playing and what DLCs you have, do you know how the layer and substituion system works?

    I am assuming you are talking about the 3 stock routes (Schnellfahrstrecke Köln-Aachen, Sand Patch Grade and the Bakerloo Line) and you do not own any other DLCs, is this correct?

    As it stands the base game is pretty lifeless I have to agree but you can remedy that
     
  3. markhazeldine

    markhazeldine Well-Known Member

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    I don't know what the layer and substitution system is, no. Can you explain or is there a video or link that explains it?
    As for routes, I have the base game, plus 5 DLCs:
    East Coastway
    Duisberg Bochum
    Peninsula Corridor
    Long Island Railroad
    LGV Mediteranee

    The ones I mentioned before (Bakerloo and Long Island Railroad) do have AI trains and people, but they just don't seem as busy as I would imagine in real life. I've been on the Bakerloo line a lot and the platforms are heaving with people at rush hour and the trains are arriving constantly every 1-3 minutes. It seems laughable to me that there would be a 28 minute wait at Elephant & Castle at ANY time of day. Are they using real timetables for the AI? Do real timetables only work in pre-made scenarios maybe?
     
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  4. jayzhead

    jayzhead Active Member

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    The game is very much lacking in life, yes, no matter how many DLC you own. Dovetail's approach is to only simulate services that are directly relevant to the route they chose to build, so there is no AI traffic other than the other drivable services existing on the route. That makes for a pretty empty environment. Would we prefer if they made other AI services part of the experience, even if they are lower quality models? Depends on what impact it will have on other goals they have in mind. In the end it's all a balancing act of development resources. I know that I definitely would have liked it. It is very weird to be driving next to a mainline on the bakerloo and not seeing anything driving on it, or coming into a huge station like Paddington or Munich and only seeing one other train there, or none at all. Never in real life would that happen, and it takes you out of the experience IMO.

    As for passengers, they are also very scarce for what they should be, never are trains and platforms that empty, especially during rush hours. But Sam has said many times during the streams that they are aware that the passenger mechanics are not where they should be and are working on improving the passenger system (or at least planning it).
     
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  5. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    Bakerloo, LIRR, LGV and ECW you can't do anything.

    Instead for the german routes you can increase the number of trains using a certain route.
    Some routes allow their trains to be used on other routes using the layer/substituion system.

    Each route has various layers, I'll take for example Koln-Aachen:

    1 - Base Layer
    It's made by the two trains that come with the route, so it has the ICE services and the RE services from Koln to Aachen with the Talent 2

    2 - Main Spessart Layer
    Adds services similar to to the ones with the Talent but with the BR146 and the DoStos and adds some freights (mixed and auto racks freights with the 185).

    3 - Rhein Ruhr Osten Layer
    Adds the BR442 S-Bahn services between Köln and Düren and petroleum and container freights with the MRCE BR185.5

    Meanwhile substitution doesn't add anything but lets you use multiple trains for the same services, for example, if you have the BR155 you can run every german freight train in every route, substituting its "stock" locomotive.

    Also loco DLCs can add layers to the timetable, for example the BR182 comes with a lot more passenger services for Rapid Transit.

    If you are looking to have a better experience from the traffic density point of view I would recommend getting used in the german environment, which has the highest potential for cross-use of locos and route DLCs.

    The duigsburg bochum routes becomes one of the most dense of trains once you add all the additional layers for example.

    The DLCs I would reccomend you to buy to add more trains are, in order:

    -Main Spessart Bahn, as it adds all of the DoSto services on almost every other german route and a lot of freight
    -Rhein Ruhr Osten, Adds some other freights and the S-Bahn to SKA
    -Ruhr Sieg Nord, which adds the BR143 which you can use as substitution to every service added by MSB (which uses the more modern 146 by default).

    Also you might want to look at the BR155 and BR182 which add a lot to their respective routes.

    Once you have MSB (which are a must have IMO) you can start to enjoy the more complex routes such as HRR (Duigsburg-Bochum), Munich Augsburg, SKA and RRO
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2020
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  6. Nemo

    Nemo Member

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    I don't think the lack of AI is the only problem. DTG should focus on them, this is right, but also on life in stations and around the line.

    Passengers in stations without any bags, everyone of them is in his space. Nobody is talking to nobody. It's kinda "dead". They're following a predefined path when walking.
    No radio comms with the dispatcher in case of problem etc..

    TSW would be the perfect place where communication with AI (like DCS World) would be a game changer. This would be more immersive, as train driver is not just a job where you push a lever. :(
     
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  7. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    The timetable for the LIRR Hempstead and Ronkonkoma branches were modelled incorrectly so there are less trains in the game to what there would be in real life. As to the Bakerloo line, they were working on adding the full Bakerloo line timetable but they may not be able too because the dispatcher isn't dynamic enough to handle all those services. There is also a lack of passengers in stations as well and they are quiet so it doesn't make the stations feel lively. Passengers is something that needs an improvement
     
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  8. markhazeldine

    markhazeldine Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for explaining this. It definitely makes sense. Sadly, I don't really care much for German routes. I'm much more interested in UK, Dutch and Swiss routes. The lack of AI a bit disappointing, TS seems to be much better at this. Perhaps because of the sheer number of routes and locos available, or maybe the scenarios are done differently? Either way, although the modelling of people is much worse in TS, you get a lot more other trains passing you and visible in stations, which helps to make it feel alive. It would be great if DTG could allow people to make their on AI trains and add them in. Also working destination boards, announcements, signage, advertising and more vehicles and people outside stations would all add tons of life to the game.
     
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  9. geloxo

    geloxo Well-Known Member

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    I played a midnight service at Peninsula Corridor with literally 0 passengers at any of the stations nor the train. Also most of the recent high speed lines the ICE and TGV trains are almost empty, even if they are double consists. That´s a ruin for any railway operator...

    But in general routes should have more ambience as well, including:
    - Higher road traffic density
    - More walkers around the line, urban areas or countryside, not only at station platforms
    - More railway workers and moving vehicles at depots and industrial areas (they are deserts now and in real life they can be really busy)
    - More staff on the stations (cleaners, workers, police, etc)

    Cheers
     
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  10. markhazeldine

    markhazeldine Well-Known Member

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    Totally agree there.
     
  11. michael hooley

    michael hooley Well-Known Member

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    In my opinion the only improvement between TS2021 and TSW 2 is the graphics, the overall game play of TSW 2 is not a patch on TS2021.
    Just 1 example, i have just purchased Oakville Division for TSW 2 in the sale, and to confirm the original poster, I have driven 30 miles through intensive populated areas and not seen 1 person.

    Mike
     
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  12. Articuno

    Articuno Well-Known Member

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    I think this experience depends highly on what DLC/locos you own, your platform (Playstation/Xbox/PC) and what you like to drive. If you like German, and own most of those DLCs (like myself) then you probably think the routes are pretty active in terms of AI - I can see 4-5 different locos when I do a timetable mode on Koln-Aachen or Munchen-Augsburg for example because of the layering and substitution system. On the other hand for the US routes this substitution and layering isn't possible because of the lack of US routes themselves and also because a train that runs on LIRR won't be seen anywhere else in the country. For the UK stuff there is a lot of British Rail action which makes those routes relatively active if you have all those DLC, but because modern UK (east coastway or great western express) is much like the US with many different rail companies running different trains on different lines substitution isn't always possible. Germany has Deutsche Bahn running many of the same locos in the same (or similar) liveries on the routes DTG has made, so to do the substitutions and additional layering makes sense in terms of realism.

    I think given time however we will start to see this layering and substitution system start to be more useful for UK and US, once we have more routes and locos. You have to remember that train sim classic has 10+ years worth of DLC behind it + third parties + scenario packs from third parties, which are now only starting to develop for TSW.

    In terms of passengers, I play on a high end PC, and I tend to see many passengers around stations and on trains, even on the high speed like TGV/ICE - I have a strong suspicion how many passengers you see could depend on settings you are running the game at - I know it has been mentioned on streams that xbox/playstation users see many less passengers than PC will. I always see console players complaining about lack of passengers on Bakerloo whereas whenever I run it there are so many passengers its like a permanent rush hour - I often get blocked by them when travelling between platforms on Bakerloo.

    Overall I think that timetable mode is a massive step forward from career/standard scenarios on train sim classic, because you are getting loads of timetable scenarios ready to go, plus 4-6 with each DLC that involve some more complex gameplay with breakdowns/depot runs or multiple red signals. If I want the same on train sim classic, I would have to spend half an hour minimum to make one scenario and probably longer if I want to use the real life timetable and see multiple rolling stock - or I can spend a lot of time downloading scenarios from third party websites - whereas I get this straight from the box in train sim world, and I still have the ability to make my own scenarios (I know it is in a very limited fashion at the moment with the limitations of the current TSW scenario editor).
     
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  13. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    One thing that made me laugh more than anything was when, with the switcher DLC on Peninsula Corridor, you make up a double length train for a special service and then mostly run it with exactly zero passengers. I ran it with two passengers once (maximum I’ve seen is three) and neither of them got off the train at the destination. They probably didn’t want to get crushed in the rush. In general now, I’m so used to the general lack of passengers on PS4, I don’t even notice, although it’s a nice surprise when there are a lot of them, which does happen on some routes.
     
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  14. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    It also (to me) seems the more complex the timetable, the greater the likelihood the saved game fails to restore properly. So until this issue is addressed you are probably not going to see a prototype intensive service level.
     
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  15. geloxo

    geloxo Well-Known Member

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    Oakville is indeed a ghost route. You barely see other trains even. There are some cars at the industrial area but nobody around. And as we don´t have passenger services the stations are empty. I like it as it´s a nice playground for freight with so many tracks to shunt and the ethanol plants but I don´t know... It looks like an post apocalyptic route in general.

    Cheers
     
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  16. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    If I could like this post 10 times I would.
     
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  17. The SimTrain Tube

    The SimTrain Tube Well-Known Member

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    Actually, there is a very nice passenger scenario for Oakville on this link: https://mods.trainsimcommunity.com/...-subdivision/i83-cal-train-both-way-scenarios

    Here's a video on it (If you don't mind hearing my voice), it has a decent amount of AI traffic.
     
  18. GrayDawg

    GrayDawg Well-Known Member

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    I agree, and it is very sad to see all these more or less empty tracks and huge yards everywhere. I'm going through the Sand Patch Grade journey mode atm, and I can't help but to think...

    The research picture DTG must have looked at when creating Cumberland Yard:
    [​IMG]

    The research picture DTG should have looked at when creating Cumberland Yard:
    [​IMG]
     
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  19. markhazeldine

    markhazeldine Well-Known Member

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    So, I just bought the Rapid Transit DLC in the sale as it was going cheap. My son likes to ride on trains and get off at stations to look around. We caught the first train from Leipzig Hbf and got off at Markt and then proceeded to walk around for possibly 10 minutes waiting for another train, and....nothing. There was like 2 announcements, the destination boards are blank, the ticket machine screens are blank, the escalators are static and silent. There were some people waiting though. Perhaps about the number you'd expect on a quiet Tuesday afternoon, but.....no trains came. We got bored and gave up. Disappointing really. In real life, as far as I've read online trains would be arriving at least every 5 minutes in each direction, so you'd expect to see 4 trains arrive and depart within a 10 minute period.
     
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  20. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    To be fair, Cumberland Yard is pretty much dead now since CSX shut down the hump yard.
    https://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2017/05/19-csx-cumberland
     
  21. GrayDawg

    GrayDawg Well-Known Member

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    That might be so, but I don't think DTG need any more excuses as to why they don't add more trains and cars. I don't buy a "well there's not so much going on there nowadays, so we can cheap out and use that as an excuse not to put more than a few locos and cars on it", as an excuse for not doing it. My guess is, it's for performance reasons, and people with weaker systems and consoles need to be able to run it too. Just sad, and not very immersive to run into it, on virtually every route they release. :|
     
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  22. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    While I do agree that TSW feels “lifeless” sometimes, the number of trains on a route really relies on the routes IRL timetable.

    That’s why we see so many services on HMA and not LIRR/BKL, because they used the real timetable on HMA.

    Sometimes, it doesn’t make sense to include the full timetable because DTG doesn’t usually give us a completed/full route. The issue here is, it leaves the big stations that have tons of life and trains passing through, empty in the game, not selling the immersion of actually being at that station.

    Another thing is the passengers basically being non-existent, especially with consoles.
     
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  23. geloxo

    geloxo Well-Known Member

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    It´s due to performance but also due to timetable concept itself. Waiting or parked consists also create problems when planning timetables. I faced that while creating scenarios in TS2020, which was a totally different approach, but here is worse as you need to plan a 24h schedule. A parked train occupies the track, so it can´t be there during hours even if in real life consists are parked even during days at sidings, specially if other services are expected to use that track later on. In addition to that this limits the availability of shunting services. Now we only see shunting if that´s part of any other service but in yards you also have many unexpected shuntings, just cause something needed to be arranged due to last minute changes, for instance, or cause another train arrived late.

    Some routes as Rurh-Sieg have quite frequently those freight wagons parked at freight sidings cause those tracks are never used or cause they are part of the other services. I think this adds the feeling you will expect on a busy railway but if I put on the developer shoes you always need to leave some room for future expansions. If more services are added with future DLCs you have two options: or you copy the paths from the exisiting ones (which is fully compatible with timetable but just creates clones of the previous by replacing the engine only) or you create new paths (which adds variety but could produce dispatching incompatibilities with old content).

    We again face the discussion about the need of more dynamic dispatching, not only one based on priorities and given waypoints/routes. If not we will always have services using the same sidings, parking at the same tracks at depots and arriving at the same times at stations. Clones that only change the locomotive or, as explained by Adam in latest stream, the consist replaced with one using similar dynamics/characteristics.

    Trainz was a simple game but it´s dispatching was very smart for it´s design concept, even if based on priorities and waypoints as well. You could play live, set the junctions manually to modify traffic yourself in real time and also spawn trains in real time with given instructions. As soon as system found a way to route trains it would send them via station sidings, routing them against current traffic or use alternative paths, which also happens in real life under degraded situations. You could play the whole day like that. It´s true that there was a limit where route incompatibilities appeared and that was a dead end, but in general it was a very flexible concept.

    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2020
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  24. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Since most of the routes are non full line routes, major stations feel dead because of that. I also still can't believe that there are still little to no passengers at stations after 4 years of them using the same engine. You would've thought they get the game optimized to handle more passengers at stations but I guess not.
     
  25. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe dtg can use concepts from Trainz's dispatcher and apply it to tsw2 so we can finally have a dynamic dispatcher
     
  26. JustWentSouth

    JustWentSouth Well-Known Member

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    I got off the Trainz train a couple of years ago, but my experience in setting up dynamic scenarios was that they inevitably ended in red light standoffs. Many users proposed solutions from hidden signals to mandatory waits. Finally, someone published an interlocking tower solution that had a bit of a learning curve and was time consuming to install, but it did work.

    FWIW, I have tried my best to create chaos on SKA and, while I can’t get stopped or delayed trains to give up their 3-4 block priority, I have yet to get a stand-off that locks up the line.
     
  27. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    God help us that we get the logic of Trainz' signaller/despatcher in TSW. The sad fact remains that 18 years since the title first launched, to run a player train you still have to work out and set the route yourself including over complex junctions. You cannot easily set up a player timetabled run let alone a comprehensive sequenced timetable like TSW does. Over the last couple of years I've built a few model railway style routes for Trainz and it's a complete nightmare trying to get AI trains even to follow a choreographed plan.
     
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  28. geloxo

    geloxo Well-Known Member

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    Hahahaaha. That´s true OldVern :D. I parked Trainz many years ago but I also had quite tons of fun with it. I think it became obsolete many years ago. They tried to reinvent the wheel many times but it was always the same history ported over the versions again.

    Cheers
     
  29. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I still dabble with Surveyor for route creation fun but rarely end up driving what I make!
     
  30. ducatiant

    ducatiant Member

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    I totally agree with this, something that kills the immersion for me is no people (outside of stations). Apart from some of the scenarios where there some track workers are placed at specific points, there are no people in the world. There are no railway workers in any timetable runs or anywhere else. None in the building sites or standing around on streets or at level crossings for instance. And it breaks the immersion factor.

    Al it would take is some people placed around routes - as can be done in TS - and it would lift the sim hugely. Yes, it would take some extra work to place them at the route build stage because of the size of a route but it's an easy job to put them in relatively speaking. Even if they are the same models in the same place at the same time every time you do a run, it would still add huge amounts of realism.

    Ant
     
  31. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    It is a good job then that the good folks at DtG will at some point redo the passengers. I would like to see some authentic buildings that are country-specific (and not generic buildings) and not the copied Kuju assets from 13 years ago that end up in these routes eg the repainted oxford offices and the housing blocks, not good to see some London flats sitting in the middle of Munich or the Oxford offices lining the tracks in Wuppertal.!
     
  32. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    DTG gave two reasons why yards are often empty/dead looking in the recent Q&A livestream.

    1.) Unsurprisingly, performance issues was one of the reasons. Though they really need to do something about this rather than just let it defeat them as it’s a massive immersion breaker seeing yards dead.

    2.) They keep yards empty in case later on, a new layer gets added to the route. This allows paths/tracks to be kept free for any future development which may need to utilise these lines.
     
  33. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    I thought the interesting comment was about "unique assets" and how they bog down the system quite a lot. It implied that you might be able to have static scenery in the route but if you want wagons lying around or carriages that you can mess with in the yards as you please then each of these would add to the performance drop on top of the traffic going up and down the route. I would extrapolate from this that when you look at routes that have some other tracks as scenery, we are actually a lot further away than you think to make these active - e.g. the mainline in Bakerloo or the underground in GWE.

    I think we really only get a snapshot of the route - the timetables are accurate but incomplete as there would be other items passing through. One thing i think is a bit jarring is routes with only one type of train or a couple and you see lots and lots of these whereas in reality the life comes partly from the variety of traffic. I was watching some German videos on youtube and they have all sorts of other services on these lines not just DB and not just one or two types of DB, but adding each of these is another licence, another vehicle to make, another set of unique assets, and another load on performance. So given the high fidelity of what we have you trade off some of the variety and life in return for a good snapshot of an aspect of the route.
     
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  34. markhazeldine

    markhazeldine Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure I fully understand how the other trains (i.e. the one I'm not driving) on a particular route work, but am I right in thinking that you can only have trains that you already own and they are all fully drivable, high res models and that they get loaded up at the start of driving a route and that when they get to the end of a route, they have to physically park somewhere or drive back the other way? If so, I understand that this is the most realistic way to model things, but if the result is a dead a lifeless game because it hits performance so much, what is the point?

    How difficult, technically, would it be to make lower poly count trains, much more simply built, that are specifically for AI only? And how bad would it be for them to spawn and disappear as required, depending on where the player is in the game, so that you were only loading what was needed at the time in order to see trains passing you, waiting at stations or parked in sidings? I personally don't care if the AI is following real life to the letter, it just has to "feel right", and if there needs to be creative license to make that happen, I think it would make the game more enjoyable.

    I do understand the licensing challenge, but DTG already have a lot of licenses don't they? Or at least, good relationships with those companies. For example, they already have licenses for GWR and TFL, so why can't we see Underground trains at Ealing Broadway? If I'm driving a commuter train through Ealing Broadway, I don't care whether the Underground trains are fully drivable, high res models, operating on a real timetable. All I want to see is trains waiting at the platform and coming and going occasionally. That would feel more real than empty platforms.
     
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  35. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    In timetable mode the AI trains are full models that use simplified physics and they follow the same instructions the player would if they were driving that service. There are a few services in some routes that are AI only but they are the same thing that are just not drivable by the player. Some of these trains stay on the route forever and some drive on and off the map through portals. The full timetable is always running but the physical models of the trains only spawn into play when they are a certain distance away from the player, less distance than the base scenery. I don’t know how much resource they take up when running outside the rendered play area but there is sometimes a stutter in the play when one spawns but that might just be the graphics loading into memory ready to be rendered.

    In scenarios the AI are full models again following a particular set of instructions and all trains in TSW are the trains you own as part of a route or loco DLC.

    I wouldn’t mind seeing extra traffic that’s not part of the timetable if it was on adjoining tracks, like the mainline next to Bakerloo or at stations on tracks that don’t form part of the depicted route, like in GWE and ECW, but I wouldn’t want extra trains spawning at random on the used track just for the sake of having a few more trains about. They would have to make sense within the timetable and not just disappear out of all existence once they were out of view, unless they took a diverging line off the depicted route. Having parked up trains or rolling stock in sidings as static scenery would add to the realism but it makes it complicated if those sidings are then needed for actual services with a later DLC. They would have to be taken away from everyone, regardless of them owning that new DLC.

    It all makes for tricky choices for the devs and having simpler models that take up fewer resources may not fit with what DTG want in their routes. Players can get close to all the trains so the fidelity has to be there, and they may only want more drivable trains in their routes rather than anything just for looks. Anything they can do to improve the life on the routes without harming the reality, gameplay or performance would be most welcome.
     
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  36. markhazeldine

    markhazeldine Well-Known Member

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    Stujoy, thanks for that background info. I agree with your idea about keeping trains on the actual line as realistic as possible, while allowing non-driveable trains on adjacent lines. I also understand that players can get close to trains and the fidelity needs to be there, but I don't think it needs to be as intense as the driveable trains to still look pretty good.
    I think where I'm confused is, when they operate a full timetable, what happens if the timetabled train is not one that you own, or one that doesn't even exist in the game? Do they just not display it? If so, could they not put in a low-res AI version, and then if/when you upgrade with a loco or route extension DLC, the game could just load up that one? I may be missing something, but unless you can switch trains mid-game, I can't think of a reason why the game couldn't just use low-res models for any train other than the one you're driving.

    Also, on the Bakerloo, are the using the full timetable? It seems to me like they aren't because trains don't arrive very frequently compared to real life in my experience.
     
  37. GrayDawg

    GrayDawg Well-Known Member

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    I like the idea of markhazeldine's to maybe have some less feature rich "dead" units sitting around. Mock-ups for the real thing. Look good, but kept as low in size as possible. That and a few more freight cars for variety (sorely lacking as it stands now), and place them in all these empty sidings and yards everywhere. Might not have to be as abundant as in real life, but when we have pretty good size yards, and there is virtually next to nothing in them...that's just, sad.
     
  38. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Bakerloo was supposed to have more services, closer to the real number, but the timetable didn’t work when it was tested so it was released with far fewer services. It may get the full number of services in the future but that is looking unlikely.

    The timetables in general are made up of layers, each different service type having its own layer. When you buy a route it comes with one or more layers to the timetable, which use the trains included in that route. Many routes also include other layers with more services that use trains from previously released routes, and you only get those services if you also own the other routes. There are also loco DLC which add a layers to the route that loco is released for. If you don’t have the necessary routes or locos these extra timetable services are simply not there.

    Some trains are also usable on other services in different routes through a substitution system. This doesn’t add any services but means the services can be driven with different trains than the default one.

    The German routes take advantage of layers and substitution more than the others (in fact, almost exclusively) because they are all set in the same time period and in the same general area of Germany. You get much more from each German route if you own previous German routes and loco DLC. It’s like a collection you build and build.

    As for switching trains mid game, you can totally do that. You can abandon the train you are driving and immediately jump into the driver’s seat of another and continue that train’s service. You can do that from when you are on foot too. When a train stops at the station you are at, you can take over its service or ride as a passenger. You can climb into the cab of a freight train that’s stopped at a signal and start driving it from there. That’s the beauty of having a constantly running timetable.
     
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  39. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that is what they say. But there is a huge difference between completely empty yards and performance issues. For the second issue, there are a number of things DTG can do when adding layers:

    1. Drive the consist away to somewhere else in a higher layer
    2. You may replace a consist with another one if you add more layers
    3. You can during route design reserve tracks to layers and keep some free for later use.E.g. at Sandpatch use 10 tracks for the base in Cumberland and reserve 3 tracks for each layer. At the moment two layers are actually used, so there is plenty of room left.
    4. For the performance issue, make the static consist density a setting, so users can lower it a bit if they have performance issues.

    I think on this aspect Matts answer is a good try to to sell us something that is not the best part of the game.
     
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  40. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I think the thing to remember on this is that DTG don't do "scenic assets" when it comes to yards etc, all of the assets in yards are AI working assets, so fully rendered with partial physics, and given you can get out of the cab and walk around those yards that's how it woudl have to be otherwise people would complain

    For the rest of your points it would depend on whether DTG can dynamically combine substitution with layers, as in "If I have x DLC pack then use train A, else if I have y DLC pack use train B, if I have neither use train C, or if I've toggled a setting somewhere leave NULL (dont' show anything)"
     
  41. markhazeldine

    markhazeldine Well-Known Member

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    It seems to me from all this discussion that DTG have got a fundamental problem with the design of TSW2. They've designed it to be so advanced (in the sense that you can walk around and get into and drive anything, anywhere), that it's basically ahead of it's time in terms of what most people's hardware can handle, and as such, they've had to scale back the amount of "stuff" going on. So in Train Simulator, we had a lot of stuff going on, but a lot of it wasn't very realistic. Now what we have is very realistic stuff, but not a lot of it. It's a lofty goal, but I wonder if they've shot themselves in the foot a bit with this approach, because now we have a very realistic, but slightly dead world. I wonder if more of a half-way approach would have worked better? Perhaps they're just hoping that in time, everyone's PCs and consoles will get better?
     

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