Hey guys and gals, I would like to finally learn PZB and am wondering which route is best suited for this and not immediately overwhelmed? I understand PZB in theory, but probably only learn it in practice. So first internalize the principle before it becomes demanding on certain routes. I have all German routes and vehicles, which route can you recommend for a beginner? Thanks in advance
It is very rewarding to learn and makes driving German content so immersive! I would recommend Ruhr Sieg Nord. First of all, it’s a great route with some fun services. Second of all, the speeds are such that it is easier to get under PZB limits when you encounter an adverse signal. With the lower speeds, it’s not so important to start breaking 200 m or so before you reach the active magnet. Have fun. Keep us posted on your progress.
And one more bit of advice: don’t try to learn SIFA and PZB at the same time. SIFA seems so straightforward, but when you are dealing with PZB magnets, having SIFA go off can be quite distracting. My routine when I come up on an active magnet is to hit the brakes, hit SIFA and then acknowledge the magnet making sure that I release the button after passing over it. This gets SIFA out of the way while you are dealing with the braking curves.
I am not sure which routes are best to learn the German systems but I am planning to use the ones that came with TSW 2020 and TSW 2 (MSB and Koln). As for actually learning the systems these tutorials are what I plan to use. They are for TSW 2 but I assume they are still valid for TSW 3 German Signals and PZB Tutorial! German Signalling Am putting a pot of coffee and a bag of kettle crisps aside this weekend to finally try and fathom out the mysteriously exotic German railway signalling and safety systems.
I choose to learn PZB on HRR, 3 main stations, 30 minutes runs, so in 2 hours of playing you can run them twice end-to-end and have a lot of practise. But I think MSB and SKA are as good as HRR, although runs are one hour long if that matters to you. I don't have other German routes so can't say anything about them. I don't know if you're playing TSW2 or TSW3, but I my advice would be also to select the route which has the lowest issue with save game (as far as you know by your own experience), simply because it is very helpful to load and check, while the damn 'Zwangsbremsung' has kicked in again and you have no idea what you have done wrong I'm playing TSW2 and on HRR save game is working almost flawlessly, I have maybe one or two situations when after loading I was not able to finish the service in timetable mode because of the objectives being greyes out. PZB might be looking quite complicated, but in fact it is not, once you understand few rules, you're at home. Good luck!
I second this for the same reasons. I started learning PZB on RSN and I still think it's the best route for it. I really don't recommend HRR for beginners. The speeds and abundance of GPA magnets make it a nightmare for inexperienced users. To my mind, it's better to get comfortable with the basics on something like RSN and move on to more complicated routes like HRR afterwards. Absolutely! It seemed ludicrous at first and now it all seems so straightforward All you really need once you've got practice are a few ground principles and everything else derives from that.
The problem with PZB is that people link hour-long Youtube videos when the basic principles are very simple: When starting, you are restrictied to a maximum speed of 45km/h. When you are sure the next signal is green and that there are no Slow or Stop signals for the next 550 metres, press PZB Release to clear the restriction. As long as the signals are green you can drive at the maximum speed allowed for your class of train, as follows: Passenger (O) = 165km/h, Light Freight (M) = 125km/h, Heavy Freight (U) = 105km/h. If the line speed is lower, stay under the line speed. When approaching a Slow signal, you must press PZB Acknowledge and immediately decelerate to the appropriate speed for your train class (see below). The 1000hz light will illuminate to remind you of your restricted speed. The 1000hz speed limits for each class of train are as follows: Passenger = 85km/h, Light Freight = 70km/h, Heavy Freight = 55km/h. You must not exceed these limits until you see a green signal, when you may press PZB Release. When approaching a Stop signal, you must immediately slow down to the appropriate speed for your train class: Passenger = 65km/h, Light Freight = 50km/h, Heavy Freight = 40km/h. You must do this before the 500hz light illuminates, which will happen between 250m and 150m before the Stop signal. Once the 500hz light illuminates, you must further slow down to the appropriate speed limit for your train class (see below) and prepare to stop: The 500hz speed limits for each class of train are as follows: Passenger = 45km/h, Light Freight = 35km/h, Heavy Freight = 25km/h. When the signal clears, you may continue, but may not exceed 25km/h until the 500hz lamp goes out. If you are given permission by the signaller to pass a Stop signal, hold down PZB Override while passing the signal. Do not exceed 40km/h. It's fairly simple, you just have to understand the concept of speed signalling and remember the specific speed limits.
I only joined in TSW2, so I learned both PZB and German signals on SKA. The Talent 2's brakes can get you from 160kph to 80 kph in time (with max brakes) and it was nice and easy to drive. The only issue is that you have to hold the button until you hear the acknowledgement noise. Most of the way is green lights, but a couple of stations have you slow down to 80 kph via signals. There are also a couple of speed reduction boards, some of which you need to acknowledge, and some of which you don't. Then you end the route with yellows and reds. Also, the ICE3M introduced me to LZB.
Small corrections: When starting, the 85 and 70 lights are flashing in alternation, there is no red 500Hz light. When approaching a yellow signal, nothing will light. You first have to press the PZB Acknowledge button while passing the signal or very shortly after, then the 1000 Hz lamp lights up. In some sense, the system is testing you here: If you don't press the PZB Acknowledge button in time, the PZB system will brake you. In reality you have to press PZB Acknowledge whenever you pass by any kind of "Speed reduction upcoming < 100 km/h", including a Lf 6 signal (the yellow triangle with a number), a yellow distant signal, or a yellow/green distant signal, including repeater signals. One more addition: You can only press PZB Release if both the the yellow 1000 Hz and the red 500 Hz lamp are dark. If you do it while one of them is turned on the speed restriction is not getting lifted.
The 500Hz magnet is not a part of the start program. The latter is indicated by alternating 85/70 lights in older units, and on newer units with a flashing icon of the respective PZB mode along with a text description in yellow of the currently-applied limit. If you are acknowledging a yellow signal (i.e. Ks 2 / Vr 0) then you should not only reduce to the standard 1000Hz restriction but also the initial 500Hz restriction in case there is a 500 Hz magnet before the upcoming red signal: PZB O: 65 km/h PZB M: 50 km/h PZB U: 40 km/h It is never necessary to acknowledge a 500Hz magnet. To elaborate on the speeds for 500Hz max: PZB O: 45 km/h PZB M: 35 km/h PZB U: 25 km/h At this point you would be in 500Hz restricting mode. The driver should not exceed 25 km/h in all modes until the 500Hz light goes out. If the upcoming signal has an active 1000Hz magnet then you must not exceed the 1000Hz speed of 45 km/h. If you prematurely release yourself from the starting 1000Hz restriction with an upcoming 1000Hz magnet (within 1250m of the previous 1000Hz magnet), the system will automatically switch back to restricted speed once passed over the next magnet and penalise you if you are faster than 45 km/h when this happens. To see an example of this in action, check out this thread. As an aside, if you're ever in doubt about what speeds to do in which mode, the quick reference in RRO's manual is pretty easy to read. Cheers
A lot of your post was already corrected, but I want to emphasise that you should only press PZB release when you have a clear (green) main signal in front of you and you are sure that there is no further upcoming active 1000 Hz or 500 Hz magnet within 550 meters. In any other case you should never release, because the system will emergency brake you if you did so ("unzulässigen Befreiung").
Apologies for the thread bump, but I myself learnt pzb recently and did so on Dresden-riesa, picked it up within a few hours of playing
. RSN and DB BR 185.2 Do it both directions until you get tired. And over time try to study every single table and aspect you encounter along the route. The RSN with the freight train because it is slow and is one of the simplest in terms of signals.
I wouldn't recommend freight for learning PZB. Freight trains react to the brakes slower and almost all PZB tutorials are written with passenger trains in mind, so they reference the speeds for mode O. (Freight trains almost always need M, or U) If you don't want station stops or a schedule to distract you from signals and PZB, just stick something that's really easy to drive (like 442 for example) into free roam mode. That way, you can even assign yourself some really fun routes that cause you to encounter more adverse signals than you ever would in timetable mode.
At 160 km/h (or slightly below) you have less time to view the various signals along the railway. If you go at 70-80km/h with the freight (on the RSN the average speed is really low) and use the AFB, you brake without any problem, also because you don't encounter large descents. Furthermore, as I already said, there are few signals (tables and aspects) on the RSN. Excellent basis for starting. I would say PZB M, we'll leave the technicalities for later. Ah, don't activate the Sifa. You are learning, Sifa will distract you. Then step by step you will learn and move on to faster routes and/or with more signals. Then again to passenger services and PZB 85. This is my approach, then everyone is free to use their own. Technically you can learn anywhere. Last tip. Relying on a tutorial/guide on Youtube helps a lot. So if your train is stopped by the PZB and you don't know what mistake you made, open the video and understand why you made a mistake. (Note: this is not the video I followed to learn the initial basics, but this one is also good. Maybe this one is even better even if it uses the PZB U and not the M suggested by me)
Don't go 160 then. It's Free Roam, you can do whatever you want. I don't see why that's a good thing. If you want to learn (and practice!) how to react to signals, surely you want more signals on the route, and you want as many of them to be adverse as possible. Going past a bunch of green signals isn't going to teach anyone anything about PZB, is it?
No. I didn't study all of mathematics or literature in my first year at school. Putting too many things together, in my opinion, only creates more confusion. And the PZB is not that simple (Unless you want to press acknowledge on every object you encounter along the track and on every speed reduction). There are so many notions and details. But I repeat, everyone is free to follow the method they prefer. I only explained mine. That's all. * If you wait a couple of minutes before leaving from Hagen, you will find a regional train just in front of your train and will often have red and very often (this is obvious) yellow aspects. You decide if you want the free or busy route. It depends on how you decide to drive. If you go fast you will get close to the train in front of you. If you want green you drive "relaxed".
Of course you don't learn all of maths at once, but this is about practice and experience, not about learning. You can't understand PZB from learning-by-doing. First learn how it works, then practice. Dealing with one yellow aspect requires the exact same amount of knowledge that dealing with twenty of them does, but the latter gives you many more opportunities to get practice and become confident. (And if you get one wrong, it's much better to be able to have another go five, rather than thirty, minutes later)
Yes, because according to you what would I have said, to study the PZB one piece at a time? But listen, having 20 railway signals and learning when to apply the acknowledgement and when not on these 20 signals (repeated numerous times along the route but still always the same 20) is easier than doing it with 40 different signals (always repeated numerous times but still double in terms of variety and therefore meaning and therefore things memorized to put into practice). Signaling is a subject and must be studied. The PZB is another subject and must be studied too. Obviously the PZB must be studied in its entirety. I'm referring to the degrees of detail that I use during practice, for example: the first few times I always use the acknowledgement under 100 km/h (which is incorrect, but I'm learning and so it's fine). Then with practice I will focus on being more and more detailed and professional) focusing for example on when I don't have to use the acknowledge and I'm under 100km/h (In fact, if in the segment I am travelling the maximum speed allowed is 100 km/h and I encounter a yellow inverted triangle with a 9, I will not have to press the acknowledge because speed reductions of only 10 km/h do not need to be reported. and it will therefore be the same if you go from 90 to 80 or from 80 to 70 and so on. While I will have to press the acknowledge if the speed reduction from one segment to the other is 20 km/h or more. This is valid below 100 km/h. And it does not depend on the speed of my train but on that permitted in the railway section you are travelling, example: The segment says 100, but I am at 80 km/h, I encounter a table -yellow triangle- that tells me to slow down to 70 km/h. I have to press acknowledge because the speed taken into consideration by the system will not be that of my train but that of the segment in which I am, so the speed reduction will be greater than 10 km/h. I don't have very certain sources, but it seems to me that it works this way.). For me this is proceeding by degrees of detail. But you are completely free to think of different approaches. Do you want to study and memorize all the signals and also how to apply the PZB (the acknowledge) all together and then proceed with practice without proceeding by degrees of detail and maybe even with a 160km/h train (PZB O) and on a route with very varied signals? Well, but it takes a great memory, and I think it's more difficult this way. Free Roaming is excellent but when I decided to ""study"" the PZB there was no Free Roaming. But with Free Roaming you can't rely on tutorials on Youtube.
I've learned it by freight services first, when understood how it works swhitched over passenger services whit PZB/LZB and Sifa on. Now i have (almost) no problem to use it
