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Lets Talk About Multiplayer Maybe??

Discussion in 'Content Suggestions & Proposals' started by ChooChooKeith, Dec 12, 2018.

  1. ChooChooKeith

    ChooChooKeith Active Member

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    Here is how I see Multiplayer maybe happening in TS but not sure how everything would work.
    I am going by how the game is right now.
    1. First everyone that would enter a Multiplayer session would have to have the same trains and the same route, unless it was possible to create regions. For example a German region that connects all cities together. I am mainly focused on Passenger trains but Frieght could go where every yards are created.
    2. The Network could have people acting as route and Junction controllers this way a load of traffic could be organized and managed.
    3. The Network could display somehow the routes that each player is taking. For instance if I go Frankfurt to Koln then it would display something like this. ChooChooKeith ICE3M Frankfurt Pl 1 to Koln Pl 5 it might give waypoints as well which would be neat like a timetable board.
    4. When you connect to the Multiplayer session you need a way to place the train on the platform that you are leaving and arriving.
    5. Voice/Communication. this could be apart of the network or a 3rd party audio app that would allow you to communicate with other players.

    please add anything else to this and again I am just throwing things out there and I really do not know what can and cannot be done.
     
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  2. Railfan722

    Railfan722 Well-Known Member

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    I think adding multiplayer to Train Simulator is physically not possible; the original code the game is based on, the old Rail Simulator series, will turn 12 next year. Train Sim World is probably the more likely candidate to have multiplayer, because it was built with that in mind.
     
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  3. Cat

    Cat Active Member

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    Again Keith, I'm not trying to dampen your enthusiasm for TS but MP in TS has been discussed many times on the Steam forum. The consensus was that not many people wanted it even if it was possible.
    Unless you are the train driver there isn't really much fun in switching switches/points or being the dispatcher/guard. In terms of play, I think it would soon become rather boring unless you are driving.
     
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  4. ChooChooKeith

    ChooChooKeith Active Member

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    What were the ideas for it?
     
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  5. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Been involved in several multiplayer threads on the TSW forum and I just don't see the point in it within a simulator environment.
    The suggestions there involve dispatcher, guard, engineering, passengers and other "multiple person interactions", but for me the point of being in a sim is to drive the train, and that's a single person activity, so unless it was a scored drive with points for technical capability, acceleration and brake curve matching, timekeeping etc I don't see how interaction would help.

    The arguments against the things above:-
    Dispatcher - the driver would be reliant on the dispatcher routing successfully and not just crashing them into a wall. The fact that in most instances auto-routing is how it's done also negates 90%+ of this
    Guard - Checking tickets, opening and closing doors... Ejecting drunkards? If the scenario is York to Newcastle express then this would get yawn inducing pretty quickly
    Engineers - A broken down train... if you stop at that point you can see it may not be allowed by the copyright holders who wouldn't want YouTube vids of their stock jacked up on a railway
    Passengers - Two people, sitting on a train, watching to virtual countryside slide by...
     
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  6. Cat

    Cat Active Member

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    Pretty much like yours, if you would like to see some more discussion on MP in TS type Multiplayer in Discussions on the Steam TS forum, there's quite a few pages. IIRC a DTG spokesperson said there are no plans to introduce MP to TS.
     
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  7. ChooChooKeith

    ChooChooKeith Active Member

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    Cool thanks.. I can see the argument against contollers but there are ways around that which is not a big issue. You place your train on the track of the route that is in session you would have to use the 2D map to see everyone that is in the session but I think there are ways to develop some other good tools that would allow everyone to make a run to their destination without having to worry about running into each other. Of course the signals have to be operating correctly. I would say using headsets would be a solution to that but you have to intergrate an audio app to allow that to happen. The biggest thing is to improve the simulator in different areas before moving to Multiplayer I guess. I saw some threads where people mentioned it but did not have ideas on how everything would work with MP.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2018
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  8. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    DTG had suggested in the past that TSW would eventually support multiplayer whereas I think the TS1 engine is running hard just to support one user let alone multiplayer.

    If multiplayer is important to you TSW is the much better bet. I’d hazard the chance of TS1 ever having it, or frankly having any significant improvements going forward now 64 bit is done, are roughly zero.
     
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  9. Cat

    Cat Active Member

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    One train sim that I believe has MP is Run8. I don't have it so I cannot comment on it.
     
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  10. ChooChooKeith

    ChooChooKeith Active Member

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    Why come out with TS2019 and then no improvements? Makes no sense. I have seen comments where TSW is really not that good so why would I go out and get that?????
     
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  11. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    ChooChooKeith each year they ‘rename’ TS1. It’s rare for it to have any significant improvements. This year’s move to 64 bit was unexpected and pleasant, but it was more to do with keeping TS1 alive than suggesting it’s going to continue to be developed.

    Like it or not TSW is DTG’s new train product and the one that they clearly have development plans for. TS1 is the legacy product.

    If you’re really looking for a platform which is going to add features like Multiplayer TSW - despite its current failings - is a better choice for you.

    As you may have noticed there are few suggestions for new features on the TS1 forum. It’s not that we’re dull or complacent it’s just generally recognized what DTG’s strategy is for the two products.
     
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  12. Cat

    Cat Active Member

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    Keith, The TS 2019 64 bit release was a huge improvement for TS.
    You must remember that DTG are a small company with limited resources working in a niche market. They're turning out a reasonable product based on an old platform for, I suspect, small profit margins. It's all very well to 'brainstorm' ideas for features you would like to see in TS but you're expecting too much from it and DTG.

    Why not enjoy it for what it has to offer instead of seeming to be disappointed in what it is not?
     
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  13. ChooChooKeith

    ChooChooKeith Active Member

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    I wish I could enjoy it. but there are bugs in the editor so I cannot even create a simple scenerio.. Do you work for DTG?
    There needs to be another major update to this .. if you dont want to see it improved to where scenerios work better or even the editor for that matter then I do not know. Seems to be no effort at all in doing anything. What it is not is a simulator? Right now its a disappointment. if you think 64 bit is an improvement then you have not seen other games which are all in 64 bit and way ahead of this.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2018
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  14. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    In terms of creating scenarios plenty of us do it all of the time, and quite complex ones at that. The editor needs experience and from time to time you might run into issues but it’s anything but unusable. 64 bit transformed it in terms of stability and the amount of AI and static trains that you could add to a scenario. Some of my recent scenarios are likely becoming unreal in that they have too much traffic; railways aren’t that busy these days.

    If you’re waiting for a major update I think you’re going to be disappointed. Cat has good advice, enjoy what it has. If the product doesn’t have what you’re looking for (like multi player) TSW is more likely in the future to meet your needs, but it’s not guaranteed.

    If you’re looking for more complex DLC for TS1 look at some of the third party vendors. They use scripting to provide additional features.
     
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  15. Cat

    Cat Active Member

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    No, I don't work for DTG. Have you looked at any guides on scenario creation? The editor is difficult to master, it takes practice and patience. I've spent a lot of time in it and am still learning, but I don't find many bugs.

    I'm sorry you are not happy with TS but the difference in expectations and reality will always lead to disappointment.
     
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  16. ChooChooKeith

    ChooChooKeith Active Member

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    The editor Crashes a lot is all I am saying. 64 bit has been around a while so having it for this game is not really a big improvement.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2018
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  17. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I have created a few scenarios in the 64 bit editor with minor issues, usually because I like to get away from the mainlines and trawl the yard, something that isn't necessarily highly coded in the dispatcher, but once you understand the limitations you can create fairly complex scenarios.

    To say the 2019 update wasn't a big one is also flawed. Going from 32 bit memory restrictions to 64 bit memory restrictions WAS a big upgrade in functionality when it comes to route and scenario building.

    It doesn't mean you get a lot more content or that old routes will suddenly be asset rich. That's not how DLC work, but that's also little to do with the core programs (ie the editor and the game engine itself)

    BUT you've hijacked this thread about multiplayer to bring up the usual "why can't we do x,y,z?" and we come back to the same answers.
    Train Sim is an old core engine. The DLC are standalone packages, so upgrading one route doesn't affect the others, same with the trains themselves (hence me having four or five different versions of the Class 66, all of which drive differently). There IS no easy fix, because you're dealing with content written over a span of years by hundreds of developers. It's not something written by one software house where a tweat here fixes every single instance of that flaw.
     
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  18. ChooChooKeith

    ChooChooKeith Active Member

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    This Thread was made by me, so that is not hijacking a thread number 1 number 2 if you cannot comment on the issue then dont. I think it is more like everyone on here has hijacked my opinion. 32 to 64 bit is old. 64 bit has been around for years now and so to claim that is a big upgrade is nothing. I saw people talking about MP and wanted to state my opinion in my own thread so I still dont see the problem other then the same people come on my thread and knock it down like I am a threat because i have some new ideas but whatever. Every single comment that has been made also has been made like you guys work for DTG and nothing can be done to fix bugs which is what a software company does to improve software as I have worked for a couple.
    The 64 bit upgrade from what I see on the forums, people have complained about it. Go to their thread and hijack it like you have all of mine.

    I have created scenerios but when you go back and edit to change somethings the editor crashes. My computer is a quad core I7 16 GB RAM with the 1070 2 GB. with 4K. and 64 bit windows 10. So my computer has beyond the specs of what this game can do.
    The editor could be improved with finding out what makes the thing crash. Here is what I think happens.
    1. When you copy a Layout and then create a new scenerio with it. The editor has a problem
    2. If you Clone an Original scenerio and then do a simple change of weather or change out a train it crashes
    3. if you put more then 5-10 AI on the track it crashes.
    4. why not fix the passengers on the platforms that are not above the platforms and just show them walking but into the platforms and in some instances they walk onto the tracks.

    DTG knows the software so they know what is going on based on testing.
    so I think they could fix somethings pretty easily and giving the excuse that its an old engine is just crap.
    if you the engine is so old then why come out with a 2019 version of the sim. Makes no sense at all.
    I saw that people are recommending going to TSW and yet the comments on that sim are not all good either.
    I think simple fixes or updates would fix things really and smooth it out. thats all I am asking for.

    Great things about the Simulator
    Train models are the best and I am talking about the features and things you can do.
    I love the Frankfurt to Karlruhe route. You know why because its stable with no issues.
    Koln to Dusseldorf is a good route but has somethings that could be improved on it.
    Garmisch to Munich nice route love it.
    Mittenwald the scenery is awesome

    Provo to Salt Lake City Boring!! which comes with TS2019

    All I have been saying is to fix the little things that go on such as a crash and find out what is wrong..

    I have used both 32 and 64 bit in the editor and the same issues happen so its not the Graphics or anything.

    The name of the thread is LETS TALK ABOUT MP Maybe??? There is a reason I put "MAYBE" there but you guys attack everything I say so whatever.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2018
  19. ChooChooKeith

    ChooChooKeith Active Member

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    go check out what the flight simulator community has done with Microsoft Flight Simulator X. www.Vatsim.net
    then go check back in the 80's on what it use to look like. Train simulator MP would be different but there are things you can do. Yes its a single player activity whether its a plane or a train. The AI trains would be the trains that are in the session so that would be cool to me if it was possible. The other roles that you mentioned i dont think are needed unless people want to do that. To me you would do all of that based on communication which would be via Headset audio to tell other Trains where you are going and your location. but again these are just ideas. I dont know where you get the Passenger thing. The passengers are already in the game and you dont need real people doing that. Thats not what MP is. Check out what Flight sim does and then relate somethings to Train simulator and it might work. I think the biggest thing is setting up the network itself to have the foundation for the MP. The little details are just that. You have to esablish a Network to logon and setup to have it really work. Trainz already has MP. Its not perfect but available.

    With the technology we have today anything is possible.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2018
  20. Railfan722

    Railfan722 Well-Known Member

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    In case you didn't know, Microsoft Flight Simulator X (still have the boxed copy) came with multiplayer from day 1. No person outside of DTG could add multiplayer to TS19 because to do so, you'd need access to the source code and modify it to add netcode or whatever you need for multiplayer. Doing this seemingly simple action would, most likely, break every core aspect of the game's code, possibly destroy routes, make trackage and signals disappear - you get the idea. Every feature the game currently has is probably what you'll see until the end of time. If you have plenty of RAM and a good graphics card, the scenario editor is fairly stable - I've currently maxed the game out with about 16 Class 76s and over 300 hopper wagons at Wath yard before my graphics card (GTX1050 Ti) decided that no, it didn't really want to load all of that.
     
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  21. Cat

    Cat Active Member

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    Anything is possible, IF it is desirable. As I've said before, when the topic of MP comes up on the Steam TS forum the majority of respondents are not interested in MP. Go and look on that forum and type Multiplayer in TS in Search if you don't believe me.

    Now DTG are market savvy people. If they see that most of their customers don't want a feature then they will not go to the trouble of making it if it will not sell in quantity. It wouldn't make sense would it. This is apart from the fact that DTG have said that they will not make MP available in TS.

    So you'd best get used to the fact that MP is not going to happen in TS and move on.
     
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  22. ChooChooKeith

    ChooChooKeith Active Member

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    Yes but that MP in Flight simulator that came with it is private networks.. VATSIM is the real multiplayer not what FSX came with. FS2004 was the first one to introduce MP and then it expanded into 3rd party networks ESKY was first and then VATSIM. I think it would be neat to have a Train sim that did the same kind of thing as FSX.
    The TS editor is not stable at all and that is my experience along with other comments that I have seen about it. not sure why
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2018
  23. Railfan722

    Railfan722 Well-Known Member

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    Here's the thing, though - multiplayer was in the game at launch. If there is any form of multiplayer, it's bound to be exploited in the almost 12 years the game's been out. TS has never, and will never be able to have multiplayer, making it theoretically impossible to put MP in. Think of it like a cake - if you put sugar in at the start before baking it, then everything's good. If you forget the sugar, then bake it, well, too late - you can't un-cook it. Except in our case, sugar is multiplayer and the baking process is the game's release.

    You keep insisting the editor is a buggy, broken mess. What kind of specs are you running?
     
  24. BRD

    BRD Active Member

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    Maybe a bit unrelated but Open Rails ( freeware open project ) is a replacement for the old MSTS and it was not necessary to modify MSTS to make it have the multiplayer option. Open Rails even runs without an MSTS installation. Now if there will be anyone willing to do a sort of "Open Railworks", then maybe MP could become a thing. Although I'm going to guess that it would be DTG to do such project and certainly not for free. :)
     
  25. Cat

    Cat Active Member

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    AFAIK DTG are still working on a fix for the 64bit Editor, see the FAQs in the Steam forum. Edit in 32bit until it is fixed. Remember to save every 2 minutes.
     
  26. ChooChooKeith

    ChooChooKeith Active Member

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    Yes it has crashed several times. I have saved as well and I was using both 32 bit or 64 bit and the same exception erros came up. Now I have since Cleared cache and even gone to verify the files to make sure they were ok. After the one situation when I went ot verify the files there were 7 that needed to be fixed and have no idea why. that is not very stable to me.

    My specs WIndows10 64bit 4.20GHZ Quadcore I7 16GB RAM with the NVIDIA 1070 updated drivers and 2 GB of VRAM 4k video as well. I dont think the computer has an issue as far as specs. The errors are software related. I have seen others have these issues as well and no solution for it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2018
  27. Gordon7000

    Gordon7000 Active Member

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    These specs are more than sufficient for TS2019 - and also for TSW. However, some users have been having issues with the latest nVidia drivers.
     
  28. Cat

    Cat Active Member

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    I've heard the same so haven't installed the latest drivers.

    @ Keith, you have higher specs than me but I rarely get crashes in the edit. The only time it crashes is when I add too many trains. Could this be the problem you are having?
    Other tips are;
    Clear Cache before or after editing
    edit in 32bit,
    save every couple of minutes
     
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  29. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    On Nvidia drivers I had problems with TS1 and had reverted to 417.01. From what I could see subsequent problems beyond that were specific manufacturer related (Acer). I’d heard this week that issues had been resolved and I’m now on 417.35 without issues, and it looks an improvement.

    Other people’s experience may differ of course.
     
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  30. ChooChooKeith

    ChooChooKeith Active Member

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    NVIDIA is not the problem and I just updated to the newest drivers. I have started to make a scenerio with no issues so far. 32 bit editor or version. but there is an issue with a train that was passing me and its not showing the train but half the seats. not sure why that is happening which has happened in other scenerios I have tried to create. anyone have a solution to that.
     
  31. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    ChooChooKeith How long have you been playing Train Simulator?
    More that a year?

    DTG could make Train Simulator 201x Fantastic but to do so would mean everyone of the items you and everyone else has bought would not work any more. Would you be happy to throw away everything you have bought for TS2019 and start paying again for new content?

    TSW you say you have seen comments that TSW is not that good but you have not actually tried it.
    I've seen comments that TS2019 is not very good - a lot of them are in this thread by You.
    You are complaining about not being able to make scenarios - it that just because you don't know how?

    As other people have told you the way the game works is quite old and is not really that much difference from when I got TS2012
    New routes and content - different ways of doing tasks - new and improved trains with more features.
    The game as come a long way but it's still stuck with the same way the core engine does it's job.
    You have been Told Why - Don't use 64bit for Editing a Route - Try Using 32 bit.
    Seems strange that Scenarios are uploaded to the Workshop on a Daily basis even though "The TS editor is not stable"

    Peter
     
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  32. ChooChooKeith

    ChooChooKeith Active Member

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    Why are you complaining about my comments? I know how to make scenerios but when you the editor is unstable in 32bit and 64bit its a problem. TS2019 is not old. so saying that it is old and oh the engine is old is BS and just excuses why the game breaks. You dont read either I have said I have used both 32 and 64 bit in the editor and it does not matter. The scenerios in the workshop, alot of them do not work. I have had one that I tried the other day and the signal would not work. it stayed red and when I pressed the TAB key it would not let me pass. I am just saying there might be a bug that needs to be fixed in the editor or the game itself.

    What I dont get is you keep making comments here about how I complain. I am not complaining I am trying to figure out bugs that are showing up in the game in certain situations and you can come up with is that the game is old. You have no solutions and you have been playing the simulator for how long? 2019 is the first version of Train simulator that I have had and for the most part it works with what came with it.
    I have used two versions of Trainz 2010 and 2012 and these are old. 2019 is coming out and they are using a new engine actually and a big update. Why cant TS do this? because its old what a bad argument.
    Please tell me also why TSW would be better other then the engine? what other things are better? When I compare this game to other games its because I want the simulator to better not bad. So stop hijacking my thread and either come up with solutions or once again dont comment.
     
  33. ChooChooKeith

    ChooChooKeith Active Member

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    Yes I have done all the above in my recent attempt. adding too many trains? not sure why that would be a problem. what is the number of trains. I try to run traffic to make it realistic as possible but I did know I was limited. I am doing it in 32bit and also have cleared Cache as well after editing and yes I have saved every couple of minutes. this is a rare crash I would say. I have also Cloned the route that I would be using as well.

    One note on making scenerios and this maybe my fault is that I make a path for the train that I am using and its red in the editor but when I do the scenerio it turns blue. I start out running 2 other trains besides mine to test it out but I get sometimes a red signal. Is this normal or do I need to try something else?
     
  34. ChooChooKeith

    ChooChooKeith Active Member

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    I wanted to add one thing for this thread which is I made it to discuss MP but just an idea of what it might look like. I have never said that MP could or could not be possible with TS. The idea might work for a different version. I hope I cleared that up for what the thread meant in the first place. Thank You
     
  35. Cat

    Cat Active Member

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    Keith, I couldn't begin to answer your questions as I only have my experience to go on. All I can say is that with too many trains you can run out of memory. As for routeing, you just have to use trial & error.

    Remember that the editor is primarily made for professional route builders and not something you can jump into and get it right first time.
     
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  36. ChooChooKeith

    ChooChooKeith Active Member

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    I would think the memory would not be a problem but that means this runs completely on RAM which I have 16. I dont think I have more then 10 trains on the track but I would not think that would be an issue with the way the routes are built . Currently I am using KOLN to Dusseldorf route and Garmisch to Munich. I put some static traffic on as well just to make it look good. I dont know why the signals are red when leaving Dusseldorf I have to get permission to leave via the red signal. if there is not a train on the track should that not be green? To me thats the route builders issue really or its the signal asset itself. I just have a easy time with the trainz editor which allows me to do all kinds of things and big routes with plenty of trains on it. So its just back and what the engine capability is then.

    Cat wanted your opinion on routes. Would you recommend the Munich to Augsburg route Because I noticed a lot of people using this route in the workshop alot. Just wondering. Thanks for your input.
     
  37. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    Cat I’m going to disagree with you a little on the editor. I’m not sure it’s a professional level tool, at least for scenarios. I’ve been using TS for around 9 months and 6 months with the editor. As you say it’s not something you can get right first time, it needs a little perseverance. One key thing is building the complexity of your scenarios, start simple. This week I got to open scenario folders in Build to insert some .lua code. I’m sure many got there faster than I did. Takes time, just needs some study. In the end very satisfying and for me a nice retirement hobby.

    ChooChooKeith it seems part of your issue is too much writing and not enough reading. for example why can Trainz have a new engine and TS2019 doesn’t? You’ve been given the answer multiple times. TS2019 (TS1) is a legacy product. It’s not a development platform. TSW is DTG’s new platform and that’s where development is going to be. No matter how many times you post, no matter how frustrated you are, that isn’t going to change. It isn’t people not giving you solutions it’s a fact. Would many others like new features? Sure, but we understand that TS1 has been stretched about as far as it can and what DTG’s intentions are. Most people, even if they’re not sold on TSW at this point believe that if DTG can make a success of it and replicate much of the functionality that’s in TS1 (like route length, 3rd party development, a functioning editor) that will become the future platform. TS1 will still have a fan base, but they won’t be expecting anything new.

    As to hijacking your thread and ‘either come up with solutions or don’t comment’ this is a public forum people can contribute whatever they think appropriate. People here are trying to help you, you just not keen on the message. Thinking outside the box and being innovative is fine provided you take into account facts and real world limitations (like a very old engine and a developer with a replacement product).

    If you go through your threads you’ll find that the answers you are getting are remarkably consistent. However you still doubt those responses. We’re not DTG employees, we’ll all Train Simulation enthusiasts and we want people to join that community and enjoy the game. When you bought TS1 you bought a game that the developer DTG has made no secret about not planning any major new features.

    As for bugs, perhaps you are seeing them, perhaps it’s just your present inexperience.To begin with may I suggest presuming inexperience. But if when you bought TS1 you thought that it would be bug free or that they would be readily fixed a little diligence on this forum or the Steam one would have made you aware that it isn’t the case.

    And when I make scenarios I, despite the DTG advice, use the 64 bit editor and have very few issues. The 32 bit editor is limiting in how many assets (either AI or static) you can add something that has existed for years. This is particularly true when building scenarios on more recent routes that tend to be ‘richer’ in content.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2018
  38. ChooChooKeith

    ChooChooKeith Active Member

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    Its obivous you dont read. The suggestions have been to use the 32bit editor and not the 64bit editor. The other thing is why in the world do you come out with a product for 2019 and its an old product? Thats make no sense on top of no updates at all. REALLY!!! I have never heard new software where an update was not put out.
    Oh and for the hijacking thing.. you have not been making comments to help. Thats been the problem. This thread was just ideas for whatever simulator there is TSW or TS ..
    I have been using Trainz for a whle and then decided after seeing a video that I would try TS2019 since it was a new product coming out and now you are telling me that it is old. If you look at other threads there are plenty of people complaining about the editor ontop of TSW. I have been on the forums but I dont spend all day on it. I think some of you cant handle the comparison between simulators because this game cant handle things that might be needed to make the experience better. I am not even going to try TSW because of many of the other forums that have bad reviews for it. To me its just like TS but whatever!!! Oh by the way I am a train enthusiast as well. Why do you think I have the ideas of things such as more sounds at the platforms or announcments or changingn the destination sign while waiting to load people. Those are realistic things that happen at real rail stations and a true simulator should involve those features and thats my opinion by experience. Its almost like one simulator has these things and one does not. And before EXPAT up there commented . I never made another comment about the editor if you look at my other comments on this thread. I was actually asking questions which CAT tried to answer. Now I get another comment about why the editor for TS is this and that.
    CAT actually in his comments was trying to help. So CAT thank you for that.
     
  39. ChooChooKeith

    ChooChooKeith Active Member

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    The other thing when the fact of TS being old and I comment about that point of why you bring that product out for 2019 and I get a downvote for that

    You might want to read through General discussions where people have had different issues with TS and the editor.
     
  40. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    ‘You might want to read through General discussions...’

    I do. There are many very wise and knowledgeable people on this forum. Nearly every post has something in it to teach you something new about the game, something to avoid, some technique you hadn’t thought of, some resource you could use. But that’s the beauty of this game - there’s so much to learn.

    Or you can just sit and complain that it isn’t easy enough.
     
  41. ChooChooKeith

    ChooChooKeith Active Member

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    Also I just read about 10 reviews on TSW all mixed but the one thing in common is that the graphics on it are stunning. Well the graphics for TS are stunning too and the scenery. But the negative common thing that I saw was the pricing and bugs everywhere along with no support for Raildriver. So to me TSW needs a lot of work too.

    You can sit there and say I am complaining but this thread and other threads are comments based on opinion and experience so far with the game. I never said it was easy.. What I said was User friendly software that you could at least operate it correctly. There are many little things that could be fixed but you keep saying DTG is never going to fix it.
    Here is another example .. speeds seem to be wrong and I just downloaded a Workshop route Innsbruck to Munich.. the speeds are MPH and the train goes by KPH because its German. .. makes not sense when you have people publishing things like that. I have given many examples of this kind of stuff but I get comments like yours that dont even have substance for correcting the errors or bugs. I go by different advice from people.. your comments are not advice but just complaining about what I saw about the game because its not all positive.

    If you have only been on a simulator for 6 months I dont think you know enough to comment either. I have been using different simulators for years. Train and Flight sims.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2018
  42. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    The problem is that you're thinking that just because something has been released with a new front end, that the back end has been rewritten too. It hasn't

    TS1 is reliant on other coding software and it's THAT which is old, the rendering and intelligence bits of the program are over a decade old, this is why if you look in the railworks folder you will see a lot of legacy program requirements.

    ALL that this program does is take the scenery and track files and align them with consists and tie all of this into the controls. It doesn't have scenery itself, or trains, or physics... All it does is take those other things and map them out, take control functions from the inputs (the keyboard, mouse, raildriver etc), generate the visuals and put this out to the screen.

    The routes are separate from the core program, and obviously as time has progressed, so has the skill of the people creating them so back in the day you had routes which were a bit sparse or low def, whereas now we have higher def routes. These would all run on the same engine (so in theory TS2012 could run PDLW) but then you hit the memory limit.

    Given your comments such as "I have 16" I will take it your knowledge of computer science is limited, but to explain simply, 32 bit processing has a limit of just under 4Gb no matter how much RAM you have in your machine, indeed your machine has more than 16Gb of addressable memory because it uses part of your hard disk space as non-immediate storage. but 32bit programs, versions of windows and processors can only access that 4Gb limit anyway.
    This is why when you're running the editor or a scenario with loads of consists or scenery it can crash, it hits the 4Gb limit and the 32 bit system can't do any more. Access violation... So whilst there may be a bug in some functions of the 64bit editor it can still access more actual consists and scenery at one time than the 32bit version can

    Your comparrisons to trainz MAY be valid, I don't know enough about that program to do a comparrison myself, but you're missing a lot of the fundamentals of how engine/add on software works when it comes to TS1

    Now TSW is a completely different beast. The problems there come from having worked in one way for a decade and now using a completely different engine in Unreal Engine, and also trying to equalise what can be done on a PC and various consoles. Trying to get a comparable experience for all usually means "dumbing down to the lowest denominator" and that's where a lot of the issues stem from. IN trying to make things run smoothly on the base machines they're pissing off those with high spec rigs. All the while they're still learning the creation software themselves as well as trying to develop tools that can be used by the public.

    In other words they're biting off a lot. Whether they can also chew it is yet to be seen.
     
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  43. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    Your reply proves you have not being playing this game for any length of time.
    Train Simulator has been around since before 2009 when it was called Rail Simulator (Kuju Rail Simulator - hence Kuju assets in the game)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Train_Simulator_(video_game)
    Every year the base program receives an update to make things easier and Every year there is a Free Update to TS20xx.
    The latest version has 32 and 64 bit options - They cannot go just to 64 bit as some peoples machines won't run in 64bit mode.

    I purchased my first version as Train Simulator 2012 and every year it has been updated - at No Cost.
    You don't get the new Routes or Trains but the base program is updated so everyone is using the same version - but this version has to be backwards compatible with all the earlier versions of the game. Various graphics improvements can be made but the Base Program does not allow changes like Multiplayer.

    You complained this game was poor compared with the improvements to Flight Simulators - the difference is when flying over a City the rendition of the buildings is quite basic - compare that with the amount of rendition required to not just make the trains but the track, ballast, OHLE, Signals, Buildings and other Scenery.

    You are complaining that the Scenario editor does not work - yet people upload Scenarios to UKTS and RailSim.de on a regular basis.
    https://rail-sim.de/forum/wsif/index.php/CategoryList/
    So maybe it's you that is doing something not quite right and why Your scenario does not work.

    Peter
     
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  44. ChooChooKeith

    ChooChooKeith Active Member

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    You obviously dont understand what a simulator is suppose to be. That is why if you look at what Flight simulator has done to its program you will see it evolve all the way to where it is today which is with a Virtual MP environment. Thats the whole point on that.

    Yes I have seen the scenerios that people have built and the ones I have downloaded have issues also. Its the editor itself which seems to have issues with how much you put on the track or just being it to long. I have used the clear cache and verify file which is on steam to counter this issue at times and seems to work. The thing is you guys never read and pick and the things I am saying that are problem for me but you cant even give one solution to the issues or even know what is going on. I have seen a string of comments from several of you commenting on this thread saying that you have different issues occuring when you edit or play the sim. I also just get oh they wont update this issues either so you just have to have the game the way it is.

    64 bit issue. Yes you must have Windows 64 bit version in order to run 64 bit. My point on 64 bit though is the fact that 64 bit has been around a while. I have had a 64 bit system since Vista came out. So 64 bit is not old but maybe for this game which from everyone here commenting says that this game is old and is using an old engine and my comment was that why in the world would you put a product out that uses old specs. Makes no sense. I want this game to be great and in order for it to have any chance in that it has to be stable. There are things that happen when I goto the editor that are not stable. If I play the routes I have then everything is great and runs smoothly wiht 115 FPS or more. I have also used Trainz for a while so yes I have just purchased TS for the first time thinking I was getting a new product when according to you guys I am not. Thats just disppointing to me.
     
  45. ChooChooKeith

    ChooChooKeith Active Member

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  46. ChooChooKeith

    ChooChooKeith Active Member

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    Here is another thing to ask yourself. Why do you have a thread called Bug Reports or even what this one is under which is proposals if DTG is not going to look into them and fix things with updates. What is the use of having a thread? Please answer this because it seems to me people are offended by opinions and suggestions on here.
     
  47. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    They have updated an old product to try to keep their DLC inventory working, and those are the bits that make them more money than the base product, so from a business perspective it makes perfect sense.
    There's also the point that in most "franchises" like Madden etc they have to do everything from the ground up every year and get it right. Imagine that with a few route thousand miles and hundreds of trains...

    We aren't saying TS cannot be better. It can, as has been proven by just about anything AP do. We're not saying that the limitations of the base game cannot be surpassed, again, they can, but only so far and by putting in a LOT of complex work. There aren't many software houses willing to do that. Do you think DTG is one of them?
     
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  48. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    "You obviously dont understand what a simulator is suppose to be. That is why if you look at what Flight simulator has done to its program you will see it evolve all the way to where it is today which is with a Virtual MP environment."

    And you have been using this Game for less than a year and you already know what it is supposed to be? :D :D

    To go further with a Train Simulator DTG have released TSW - which even though you have not tried it you have already dismissed it. :(
    TSW uses Unreal Engine 4 which enables you not to just sit in the Drivers seat but sit in the train, walk around the sidings or stations.
    It was only released in March 2017 but you expect so much more in a short period of time.


    The Flight sims have evolved over the years but Can you still play with the same Aircraft and locations from 15 years ago.
    You can with Train Simulator 20xx because it's been designed to be Backwards Compatible with Earlier releases of DLC.
     
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  49. ChooChooKeith

    ChooChooKeith Active Member

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    I know what TSW is and I have seen the reviews on it which is one of the reason I am not getting it. In Comparing Flight Simulator I am talking about the software stability and that it is a true simulator. I have said TS has great scenery and the models are real as well but I just thought it needed a little atmosphere which by the way several years ago Flight sim had nothing. They had no MP and they had no trucks pulling up to the plane or the Ramps coming to the plane and now it does. Microsoft abandoned the series when they put out X and that was it. So all i am saying is on several fronts TS just needs a little more. The editor to me is a separate issue so I am just going by what it is doing when I am in it. I have fixed somethings with the editor. The suggestions that were given worked for the most part but the editor still crashes. The other thing if the editor wont work in 64bit then what is the use of 64bit other then having nicer graphics while playing the game. Now I have to goto the eidtor in 32 bit create the scenerio hop that it does not crash and then load up 64bit.

    DTG realeasing TSW and TS at the sametime is just not good. Why do you release TS with 64bit when you are not going to update it or fix bugs that have come up all over the place. Why not do away with TS and upgrade TSW. They have no done that. I would look at your comments in the review section of these two games because alot of you are complaining as well. You also could not answer the question above your post. Why have Bug reports or propsals for TS if they are never going to upgrade this product?
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2018
  50. Cat

    Cat Active Member

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    Keith, I'm sure no one here is offended by your suggestions, even though you told one contributor that he was talking BS when he was in fact correct. All we have all done is taken time and trouble to explain the realities of TS to you.

    Until quite recently, you were under the assumption that TS2019 was a completely new sim despite being told by us that it is not. Under that assumption you were making suggestions for features that you would expect in a brand new sim. When we patiently explain why things in TS are not doable or feasible you accuse us of negativity. You keep repeating your mantra of, 'go and look at Flight Simulator or Toy Town Trainz', despite the fact that very early on we said there is little or no comparison between them, Think apples and oranges.

    Bugs; Some DTG scenarios have bugs, it's a well known fact. Do they fix them? Rarely, their reasoning is that if they fix one bug it will create another one. True or false, I don't know. I suspect that DTG are too busy working on the next dlc to keep the cash rolling in to support the development of TSW.
    Bugs in Workshop scenarios, well WS content is made by TS users so the quality will vary but you can make comments to the creator.

    All in all Keith, we are taking time to answer your posts in good faith and honesty but you seem to take offence at good advice from those who have much more experience than yourself. And remember that we do not work for DTG, we cannot implement your wishes.

    EDIT Keith, just read your last post, I'm pretty sure TS sales are supporting the development of TSW until it generates enough sales to be financially independent.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2018
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