Train Sim World 3 Lgv Est Européenne / Paris - Saarbrücken Route

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Federix, Sep 25, 2022.

  1. Federix

    Federix Member

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    From Paris to Saarbrücken with 320km/h - LGV Est européenne

    Content:
    • General Information
    • Maps
    • Rolling stock
      • High speed
        • TGV Réseau
        • TGV Euroduplex (TGV 2N2 3UA)
        • DB ICE 3MF (BR 406F)
        • DB ICE 3 MS “Velaro D” (BR 407)
      • Regional transportation
        • SNCF Class X 73900 (A TER)
        • SNCF Class Z 27500
    • Gallery
    • Important note
    • Image sources


    General information:

    I hereby suggest the Paris Gare de l'Est - Saarbrücken Hbf route as a new DLC for TSW 3, which would also be the first international route. The route consists of 3 parts: A small part of the Paris Est - Strasbourg line, almost the full line from Rémilly to Saarbrücken and, the largest part, ~300km of the LGV Est européenne, which is running from Paris to Strasbourg and where speeds of up to 320km/h are reached. The full journey from Paris Gare de l'Est to Saarbrücken Hbf takes ~1h50, which is a lot of time. So, I would suggest to also add Gare de Reims and Metz Ville as terminal stations. Comparison: the journey from Paris to Reims only takes ~45min. I decided to also add regional services to this DLC, which would be TER services from Saarbrücken Hbf / Forbach (F) to Rémilly (part of the TER line L15 in real life) running on the same line as high speed trains between the LGV Est and Saarbrücken Hbf. So, to give you a better insight on what I am planning, I prepared two maps, one for high speed and one for regional services:

    Maps:
    upload_2022-10-18_14-30-21.jpeg

    upload_2022-10-18_14-30-51.png

    To show you how the routes look like in real life, I prepared two screenshots (Wikipedia) of the line courses for you.

    (Full) LGV Est européenne line:
    upload_2022-10-18_14-52-49.png

    Saarbrücken - Rémilly line
    upload_2022-10-18_14-53-9.png

    Rolling stock:

    So, let's move on to the rolling stock. There are four trains I provided for high speed services and two for regional TER services. As it is an international route, I intend to use both German and French trains.

    High speed trains:
    Let's start with French trains:

    TGV Réseau
    [​IMG]
    This is a French high speed train, only used on national routes. It is based on the earlier TGV Atlantique.

    TGV Euroduplex (TGV 2N2 3UA)
    [​IMG]
    The TGV Euroduplex is the third TGV Duplex generation, used for international routes. The TGV 2N2 3UA is the type of the TGV Euroduplex, which is equipped with German safety systems, so it can also be used on German lines.


    Let’s go on with German trains


    ICE 3MF (BR 406F)
    [​IMG]
    The ICE 3MF was a modified version of the ICE 3M (the multi-system variant of the ICE 3). It was used to serve the Frankfurt Hbf - Paris Gare de l'Est Route and was equipped with French safety systems. In 2016, TVM has been removed from these trains, which made them unfit for French high speed routes. Since 2016, only the ICE 3 (BR 407) serves this route. But as this was the first ICE train in France, I think he still deserves his place in TSW.

    ICE 3 “Velaro D” (BR 407)
    [​IMG]
    The ICE 3 (BR 407), also known as “Velaro D”, is also equipped with French safety systems and is currently the only ICE you can see in France. It serves the route I am suggesting since 2015.


    Trains for regional services

    SNCF Class X 73900 (A TER)
    [​IMG]
    At Saarbrücken Hbf, this is the most seen TER train, as it’s the only one running through the border on this route. This diesel-powered train is used for hourly services between Saarbrücken Hbf and Forbach (F), but it also serves the full L15 line.


    SNCF Class Z 27500
    [​IMG]
    This dual-voltage electric multiple unit is one of the most seen TER trains. On this line, it doesn’t cross the border between France and Germany, so it only runs between Forbach and Metz.

    Gallery:
    To give you a better insight on what I am planning, I looked for a few pictures I can show you.

    [​IMG]
    ICE 3MF on the LGV Est line

    [​IMG]
    TGV 4402 (operation V150) reaching 574,8 km/h on the LGV Est line

    [​IMG]
    TGV Réseau heading to the LGV Est line at Noisy-le-Sec station

    [​IMG]
    TGV Euroduplex and ICE 3 (Velaro D) at Paris Gare de l'Est station

    [​IMG]
    ICE 3 passing through Meuse TGV station
    IMPORTANT NOTE to prevent confusion about the following posts: This is NOT the original version of this post. The original post didn’t include TER services, as this idea just came later.


    Image sources:

    General
    TGV R: https://www.bahnbilder.de/1200/sncf-tgv4502-trecate-i-9248-1294929.jpg
    TGV 2N2: https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Luxemburg_train_station_2019_3.jpg
    LGV Map: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:LGV_Est
    ICE 3MF/ BR406F: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:DB_ICE_3MF_406_(8465394974).jpg
    ICE 3 (BR407)/ Velaro D: https://www.eurailpress.de/nachrich...407-alstom-ruestet-17-ice-3-mit-etcs-aus.html
    TGV Logo (in Route Map): https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/7/7d/TGV.png
    ICE Logo (in Route Map, edited): https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bc/ICE-Logo.svg
    Saarbrücken - Remilly Route Map: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rémilly–Saarbrücken_railway

    TER Logo (in Route Map, edited): https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Logo_TER.svg
    A TER: https://www.bahnbilder.de/bild/fran...ter/1234310/ter-73913-nach-metz-ville-in.html
    Z 27500: https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:AGC_Z_27500.jpg?uselang=de

    Gallery
    ICE 3 MF on LGV Est: https://www.flickr.com/photos/alsto/2456056865/sizes/l/
    TGV V150: https://www.massimo-catalano.de/pro...-zug-der-welt-kommt-aus-frankreich-k85soxdqf/
    TGV R at Noisy-le-sec station: https://trainspo.com/photo/95621/
    TGV and ICE at Paris Est: https://www.sr.de/sr/home/nachricht...arbruecken_saargemuend_paris_ausfall_100.html
    ICE 3MF at Meuse TGV Station: https://structurae.net/de/medien/175372-bahnhof-meuse-tgv
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2022
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  2. john#1379

    john#1379 New Member

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    Sounds good, but don't you think this route is too long for TSW
     
  3. Federix

    Federix Member

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    I was worried about that too, but I think with the Kassel - Würzburg high-speed route, DTG has shown us that even longer distance routes are not a particular problem.
     
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  4. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    You are absolutely correct. however when you try localizing this to the German language You might as well need to look at the German name for the French town of Baudrecourt and Forbach because both French towns were in the German Empire Alsace Lorraine Territory. On Schnellfahrstrecke Hannover Kassel Würzburg the LGV Est DB BR406 ICE3MF has a chance to spawn as a 16 carriage set being itself and a DB Baureihe 403 ICE3 being the rear set. Remember in real life both train types are compatible with each other but not DB Baureihe 407 Velaro D
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2022
  5. Federix

    Federix Member

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    As a German-speaking person, I can confirm to you that even former German cities in France are no longer (at least not officially) mentioned with their old German names. In addition, I actually believe that the Velaro D units can be coupled with each other. :D
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2022
  6. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for telling me about that because I got used to the practice with German speakers using the German names of a city in former Austria-Hungary and German Empire controlled Poland Czech Republic and Russia Kaliningrad Lithuania East Prussia.
    Are you sure about that the DB BR407 can combine with DB BR406 ICE3MF and Schnellfahrstrecke Hannover Würzburg Hauptstrecke München Augsburg DB BR403?
    From this video at Frankfurt Flughafen
    a DB BR403 is combined with DB BR406

    If not DTG can copy and paste TSC DB BR407 manual section on multiple unit To which you cannot couple a 407 to 403/406 due to different coding
     
  7. Ferrovipathe67

    Ferrovipathe67 Well-Known Member

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    yes 407+407 it's possible but ice 3m+ 3m new it's possible but only in emergency same with a tgv
     
  8. Ferrovipathe67

    Ferrovipathe67 Well-Known Member

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    and the 407 must be in tow the reverse is impossible
     
  9. Ferrovipathe67

    Ferrovipathe67 Well-Known Member

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    it's possible but only in emergency a 407+406 or 403
     
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  10. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Find that helpful and if one has LGV Est Paris Est Saarbrucken with Schnellfahrstrecke Hannover Würzburg and Schnellfahrstrecke Köln Aachen selected services get a 407 + 406 combined others are 403 + 406 or 407 + 403. However 407 gets a speed reduction from 320 kmh LGV Est to 250-280 kmh on Schnellfahrstrecke Hannover Würzburg
     
  11. MYG92

    MYG92 Well-Known Member

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    I like your proposition and DTG mentioned in the past that they find a way to do longer routes automatically so it’ll will save a lot of time but I don’t know if they already use this technique or it’ll be in a near future. I think we’ll have more chance of having the TSC Strasbourg-Karlsruhe route ( which will be the first international route ) as it’s mixed traffic with both passenger and freight. DTG will give us the BR186, TGV 47xx series and BR407 or if they want to give use again the 406 in MF version then the TGV 44xx ( POS ) will suits better.
     
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  12. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Spot on and also I suggested this route as the Appenweier Strasbourg Railway with BB37000
     
  13. Jay1986

    Jay1986 Member

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    We definitely need more French routes and some more LGV action :p
     
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  14. Ilba8765

    Ilba8765 Active Member

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    Absolute france routes

    something different from LGV with all understanding for new high-speed lines. Wouldn't a traditional route give a better insight into what it's like in France. Offer more options than just TGV.



    basic SNCF railway line




    Transilien LIGNE N

    4444.jpg





    Preferred train BB7600+VB2N

    333fff.jpg sdfsfs003j2222.jpg sqfqfqfqf005111.jpg
     
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  15. CowBoyWolf

    CowBoyWolf Well-Known Member

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    Got any pic as i would like to see how that would look like?
     
  16. Federix

    Federix Member

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  17. YASUKE

    YASUKE Member

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    Why showin a map of the ligne P when you want to show the ligne N ???
     
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  18. MYG92

    MYG92 Well-Known Member

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    You showed us the map of the line P which is over 250 km and the BB7600 now withdrawn for nearly a year was a transformation of BB7200 for Transilien but you showed us a BB22200 in “Béton livery”
     
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  19. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    That can happen here & Schnellfahrstrecke Hannover Würzburg and in the case of Schnellfahrstrecke Hannover Würzburg or Hauptstrecke München Augsburg which everyone has and owned TSW 2 with München Augsburg The DB Baureihe 403 ICE3 on both routes has combined with DB BR407 on the back.
     
  20. Federix

    Federix Member

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    In principle, I agree with you that French regional transport also deserves a place in TSW. Nevertheless, I also think that even if we already have the rather short section of LGV Méditerranée, we still have room for another French high-speed route in TSW, especially compared to the amount of German high-speed routes currently in the game. In addition, here in Germany, French high-speed transport is much more popular than French local transport, as the French are ahead of us Germans in terms of high speed with the LGVs.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2022
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  21. Ilba8765

    Ilba8765 Active Member

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    Oh I didn't know that.
     
  22. Ilba8765

    Ilba8765 Active Member

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    yes TGV is very popular. There is also the BB7600 a locomotive that could be or become very popular.
     
  23. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    That locomotive can't run here because BB7600 is 1.5kv DC since Northern France is 25kv 50 hz. Correct locomotive here is it's 25kv 50hz version the BB15000. On this route it's sitting inside Forbach yard waiting for 185.1 185.0 185.2 freight service to end then bring it to Metz Woippy or Paris Le Bourget Triage. If Backdated to 2013 LGV Est Paris Est Saarbrucken Metz Forbach section would have seen BB15000 run to Forbach with the CNL Paris to Berlin or EN452/453 Paris Est Moscow Belarussia station via Berlin Hbf Asschaffenburg Hbf or Hanau Fulda Bebra Gerstungen
    BB15000 picture
    [​IMG]
     
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  24. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    I'll have you know, I'd do anything to get Saarbrücken Hbf in TSW (or any train sim really), but I don't see this happening anytime soon. 375km is even longer than Zusi's Kassel-Hamburg with its impressive 310 km journey (although the entire route network is even longer with 465km).
     
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  25. Mateiule

    Mateiule Active Member

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    Yes! And we need a world speed record scenario as this line is where the TGV got to 574,8km/h.
     
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  26. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. Dedicated high speed lines are pretty boring, and we've already got a fair share of those.
     
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  27. TSW Nathan

    TSW Nathan Well-Known Member

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    Would someone please educate me?
    Does Eurostar run on this route or am I wrong?
    P.S: Amazing Suggestion, Would love to see more french content in the game
     
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  28. Federix

    Federix Member

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    I actually don't believe that Eurostar trains can be seen on the LGV Est européenne, because there are no destinations in Central East France operated by Eurostar.

    Eurostar map:
    85DF35B2-6A7A-4B1F-95AC-11FC4A4BE4C6.png

    Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Eurostar_map.svg
     
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  29. Ferrovipathe67

    Ferrovipathe67 Well-Known Member

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    no only thalys go to est of france with the eurodéputer service 2 service one in a double tgv and 1 in a single tgv
     
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  30. Federix

    Federix Member

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    For you, high speed may be boring, but not for me. And in my opinion, "high speed" is 300kph+, currently we only have one route on which such speeds are reached.
     
  31. MYG92

    MYG92 Well-Known Member

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    High speed lines are boring because they’re short cf LGV med but if DTG added the extension to Lyon Part-Dieu then it would’ve been interesting
     
  32. Federix

    Federix Member

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    I actually meant the route I suggested, not LGV Méditerranée. I don’t think 1h50 is short :)
     
  33. MYG92

    MYG92 Well-Known Member

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    Yes I know but I was commenting Purno’s when he said it’s boring
     
  34. Federix

    Federix Member

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    Okay, sorry :)
     
  35. MYG92

    MYG92 Well-Known Member

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    No worries ;)
     
  36. jack travers

    jack travers Well-Known Member

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    We only do have two dedicated highspeed lines and one of them can’t even reach it’s highspeed most of the time
     
  37. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    You mean SFS Hannover Kassel Wurzburg where you can't reach 280 kmh? LGV Est allows 320 kmh 200 mph to Baudrecourt. Then 160 kmh (100 mph) to Forbach and Saarbrucken
     
  38. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    They're boring because they're a one trick pony. Even Kassel-Würzburg has limited services.
     
  39. Federix

    Federix Member

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    To prevent this, I provided to also offer services terminating (in-game) at Metz, Reims or Meuse TGV.
     
  40. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    That can work but running it to Saarbrücken you can have 185.5 B85500 185.2 BB37000 DLC 181 end at Remilly in both ways.
     
  41. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    That's still only TGV services.

    The only high speed routes I enjoy are those which also feature local passenger trains and freight, such as Köln-Aachen and München-Augsburg (and, to a more limited extent, London-Reading).
     
  42. Federix

    Federix Member

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    No. I also offer ICE services.:)

    If you are absolutely against high speed, I can't help you, sorry. But I think there are also many other people like me in the TSW community who would like to see more high speed routes in the game.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2022
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  43. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    I'm not against high speed, I'm against routes that ONLY offer high speed. You know, dedicated high speed lines without any other type of traffic, like Marseille-Avignon.
     
  44. Federix

    Federix Member

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    Initially, I also planned to implement regional traffic (Transilien) in this DLC. But later, I noticed that, if I also added Transilien, it would become to large. So I decided to only offer high speed services, as high speed is quite more interesting for me and the main thing I want are still the Paris Gare de l'Est - Saarbrücken Hbf ICE and TGV services.
     
  45. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    How about TER Remilly Saarbrucken with B85500 X73900. Own them with this route and a DB OBB PZB route you have French DMU and Dual Mode train capable of running PZB under15kv 16.7hz AC
     
  46. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for giving me a shout out and you forgot Freight services BB37000 185.1 185.0
     
  47. MYG92

    MYG92 Well-Known Member

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    Good luck for DTG getting the green light from the Conseil Régional du Grand Est to have the right of using that specific Grand Est livery
     
  48. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Correct and also X73900 has a Deutsche Bahn Paint scheme which turns it into a DB Baureihe 641 Saarland with SNCF Decals. When it comes to B85500 were those trains also ordered for Metz Remilly Saarbrücken services or not?
     
  49. MYG92

    MYG92 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah the X73900/VT641 with red livery DB logo at the front and SNCF on each side. For the B85500 it will be for 7 lines first and as Baden-Württemberg is planning to open more lines, more are to come. The 7 lines:
    • Metz-Trier
    • Metz-Saarbrücken
    • Strasbourg-Saarbrücken
    • Strasbourg-Wörth am Rhein-Karlsruhe
    • Strasbourg-Neustadt
    • Strasbourg-Offenburg
    • Mulhouse-Mülheim
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2022
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  50. MYG92

    MYG92 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry for the double post for some reason it doesn’t let me modify my post. If DTG can’t get the livery at least they can use the 2 only X73900 owned by Saarland that are red with both DB SNCF logos similar to the VT641 running exclusively in Germany. I really want an international route between France and Germany that would be great
     

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