Lgv Mediterranée Scenery

Discussion in 'Train Sim World Discussion' started by ronaldix, Dec 11, 2020.

?
  1. looks like south of France

    15.6%
  2. looks like a big forest

    84.4%
  1. ronaldix

    ronaldix Active Member

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    So here is a comparison between TS1 on the left, Real life in the middle and TSW 2 on the right. All of those screenshot have been taken at the exact same location for each comparison

    The first one is right at the end of the Marseille tunnel, you can see that the scenery is completly different from reality and even from TS1:
    upload_2020-12-11_13-42-34.png

    Here is a few hundred meters later:
    upload_2020-12-11_13-53-18.png

    Then after Aix en provence TGV:
    upload_2020-12-11_14-28-49.png

    I could do that for the whole route, it feels like we're in the black forest in Germany not the south of France, there is way too much trees in my opinion (and the wrong types of trees) and the lighting is not bright enough.
    I wanted to buy the route but now I'm really not sure, It doesn't feel like the south of France, it almost feels like a fictional route. the TGV itself looks good but the scenery of the route feels really wrong.
     
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  2. Snek

    Snek Well-Known Member

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    DTG places too many trees on almost every route (look at NTP, SKA,...) so I guess this is to be expected. I like trees but not when they don't fit on the route or block the view that would otherwise be there.
     
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  3. ronaldix

    ronaldix Active Member

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    I agree but I think it's even worse than other routes, look at the first comparison screen, IRL there is litterally not 1 tree yet in TSW 2 they made a dense forest...
     
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  4. hightower

    hightower Guest

    My guess (and it is just a guess) is that they built it like this because without the trees it would look pretty bad.

    With the foliage, grass and shadow draw distances as they are we can only surmise that the alternative would be bare terrain with zero lighting effects stretching away into the distance, visibly filling in with detailed scenery right in front of you as you drive along. It wouldn’t look great.

    Even though the scenery is clearly incorrect in places, I’d imagine that right now the tress are the lesser of two evils.

    I know I keep banging on about it, but this is a perfect example of how these problems with the lighting are really hampering the game.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2020
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  5. Shukal

    Shukal Well-Known Member

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    And then you have MSB with it's barren hills where there are not nearly enough trees.
     
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  6. Mattty May

    Mattty May Well-Known Member

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    Judging by the pictures you’ve shared it does look a bit overkill with the trees.
     
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  7. Scorpion71

    Scorpion71 Well-Known Member

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    The TS1 version looks closer to the realistic shot than the TSW2 version does.
     
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  8. 59321747

    59321747 Well-Known Member

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    Don’t DTG’s employees design scenarios with reference to actual geographic maps? Resign as soon as possible and don’t waste everyone’s expectations. You don’t need to be more realistic, but don’t be too different.

    Just make an international joke, but I hope that DTG will best refer to the actual geographic, graphic, and landforms when designing the road map. Don’t deliberately study the design concept. I personally like realistic scenes. This is the reason why I like games, unless DTG clearly marked the map as a virtual scene.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2020
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  9. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Ironically the overused bloom, such as in ECW or in Pen Corridor, would’ve made this route look a lot more true to life, as well as the feel of the climate on the route.

    The foliage and greenery just screams Northern Europe to me. Not a hot and dry place, like Southern France. The dark lighting and shadows don’t help with the feeling either.
     
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  10. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    It doesn’t look like the south of France in those screenshots. I don’t know where the issue lies here. If DTG made the TS version look like the real area, I don’t see why they can’t make the TSW version look like the real area. Lack of assets for TSW? They’ve made it look nice but not Nice nice. That joke works well enough, I think. I’ve never been that bothered about things not looking exactly like they do but I have always thought they go overboard with trees, hiding some potential good views. It’s totally wrong here though, everything’s too dark and closed in. If it was just the ballast being too dark, as mentioned a bit previously, then it wouldn’t be too bad but all the ground types are too dark, the trees are too dark and too tall, it’s just not right. I didn’t really notice this during the stream but I was mainly looking at the train. East Coastway looks brighter and paler than this.
     
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  11. BR125

    BR125 Well-Known Member

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    Holy Moly....Yeah I might not bother anymore. It just looks like another Northern Europe/German route with some french signals. I was interested as I love high speed and was interested to see a new environment in TSW - but it looks like they havent bothered to make the important bit...the biome.

    Whats next, a green and 2D tree filled Cane Creek?
     
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  12. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    Living in a place which is climatically similar to the south of France, I have to say, this looks completely wrong, even the more "forest-like" areas here look much much "brighter" than that, it feels much like a german route sadly.
    20200929_154318.jpg 20200210_120109.jpg 20200210_125346.jpg

    This is the sort of things I would expect from a Mediterranean route.

    Actually the TSW LGV iooks really similar to the Isle of Wight or HRR/RSN :( which is really strange I think, for example on ECW they managed to capture a much "brighter" environment very well, what was the problem on LGV?
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2020
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  13. volvolover1972

    volvolover1972 Well-Known Member

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    I’m going to be honest. It looks like they used scenery techniques for German routes in Southern France. Scenery looks more like something from the Ruhr valley rather than southern France. Compound that with the fact that there’s only three stations along the whole route, I don’t see much re-playability beyond a few runs back and forth. DTG seem to stuck on making routes for TSW that were already in TS1 (obviously, since a lot of the research is already completed), but I feel like we need something new. There was only one official French route in TS1 and the first French route they opt to do for TSW is the exact same route... There were endless possibilities for a French route. They could’ve done a city commuter line, a more intercity non-high speed route, or, if they were set on TGV, there are many other options other than Marseille to Avignon.
     
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  14. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    What a rollercoaster ride this wait for the LGV has been, first excited for the route, than there were the screenshot of the wrong centenary and possibly not working panto switchover, than we were reassured about that and so I was so hyped again and now this...

    I really hoped I could see some familiar landscapes and such but no, they managed to create a german route in the south of France, looks like I'll have to go back and watch the stream's recording because this route is not a insta-buy anymore...

    They first need to get rid of some trees first and second recylcle more assets from ECW and less from the german routes... they still have a week before release hopefully they will have a look a this topic... I'm so sad and disappointed... the artist impression seems like it's for another DLC entirely :(

    [Trimmed the comment a bit... too much unnecessary, non constructive criticism caused just by my disappointment]
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2020
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  15. BR125

    BR125 Well-Known Member

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    as DTG Protagonist says - 'artistic license', or 'we only know how to make northern european biomes'. pick one :'D

    Bet people cant wait for Schnellfahrstrecke Cane Creek
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2020
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  16. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    Yet ECW looks better, How? Why? What's the difference? They couldn't be bothered for this route?
    Other questions that will never be answered
     
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  17. BR125

    BR125 Well-Known Member

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    I expect a full generic statement on how the team 'lacked the time to create entirely new environmental art', which obviously the common sense answer should be so dont make the route then? but no, they saw their opportunity to asset flip 'a French route' and took it.
     
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  18. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    I just hope to be completely wrong and it will look much better once released or the "summer" setting before starting a service will do the route some justice, they used spring didn't they...
     
  19. BR125

    BR125 Well-Known Member

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    I hope for you my friend. I am like you, I really wanted this route to be good & do well - for the sake of TSW but as with the majority of their....ability? its misfired I think. Train Sim Northern Europe looks ok sometimes I guess?
     
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  20. Snek

    Snek Well-Known Member

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    You guys are really overblowing the problem imo. The trees on this route are no different than any other. Most routes have fairly accurate vegetation but with some areas which are just too forested.

    It's similar on this route. I watched a cabride video and a lot of it is actually accurate. Or rather, half. The northern part is forested similar to how DTG made it. Sadly, the southern is mostly inaccurate like OP has shown.
    Posnetek zaslona (25).png Posnetek zaslona (24).png Posnetek zaslona (27).png Posnetek zaslona (28).png

    They obviously tried to capture the feel of the route. Just look at the yellow procedural grass and textures, no other route has this, especially not a german one.
    What I think would make a huge difference is making the ballast the right colour, because in my opinion that is what breaks the authenticity the most.
     
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  21. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    I mean... I took a look at the other threads about the LGV stream and everyone was so happy about the route looking good... so I would expect the majority of the players is happy which means they have no reason to spend resources to make it better
     
  22. BR125

    BR125 Well-Known Member

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    It definitely lacks the southern Europe appearance, Im not really focusing on the trees as much I am the colour palette, and general world building.
     
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  23. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    I don't know how to put it... it's not a single tree, it's just the general "feel" of the route which seems just wrong, hopefully someone that knows english better than me can add something but from some stills of the stream it felt a lot like a northern european landscape, similar to what you see on SKA and HRR, for reference, the artist's impression is completely different and more accurate IMO. But maybe I'm just overreacting and I'll get used to it... maybe some adjustments to the in game settings or my monitor might help with the lighting and such... the first impression after looking at some stills above and from the stream was really bad. Screenshot_20201211-182947_YouTube.jpg Screenshot_20201211-182912_YouTube.jpg Screenshot_20201211-182919_YouTube.jpg
    I think it's something you could get used to, don't get me wrong but seeing the TS version surpassing the TSW version on graphics is a bit underwhelming and I think doesn't do justice to what this can really be... again I think we get a "sufficient" product from something with the potential of being excellent...

    Maybe living in a similar place really affects what you expect from a certain product... none of this screens looks like anything I've ever seen in a Mediterranean coast
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2020
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  24. BR125

    BR125 Well-Known Member

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    I am genuinely curious as to how they are going to represent the alps and desert environments. Im gonna set my bar low and see how much they fire under it.
     
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  25. Snek

    Snek Well-Known Member

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    Well I guess we disagree then. The yellow grass and ground textures (apart from the ballast) definitely don't feel northern european to me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    I guess the trees should have been less lush green and more grey, but then DTG would have to build up a whole new asset library of trees just for one route.
     
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  26. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    I agree as I looked at the screens more "in depth" I noticed the terrain texturing which is great, yes the trees seems to be the main culprits, too many of them and "too green", no need to rebuild anything, just don't put the trees where there aren't IRL... also the ECW's trees would look much better, if the scenery is bland IRL don't try to artificially make it more interesting, it will end up looking wrong... as it indeed does.
    f3b59ab1-04d6-4dc8-9ec8-92125430ca50.jpeg
    Why does this look much better?
    I reckon because there are less trees and more of those low "bushes" which look much more something you'd find IRL, in fact the places where you notice this ""issue"" less is where there aren't as many trees

    And about the new asset library, of course they need to create one, they said when they wanted to expand to another country they would need to be sure they would sell more than just one DLC to offset the "cost" of creating bespoke new safety systems, signalling and assets. If they lowered that bar and now they use the german assets for every country there is no reason for them not to expand, for example in northern Europe
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2020
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  27. hightower

    hightower Guest

    DTG use an off the shelf UE4 product (https://store.speedtree.com/games/) for the trees in TSW. It is my understanding that as a result little to no modelling of trees is required.
     
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  28. maxipolo12

    maxipolo12 Well-Known Member

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    Haha nice one dude.
    The implementation of trees is a conspiracy between DTG and the illuminaties in order to put stuttering by driving trains.

    Maybe since the screens and now, a lot of new trees have been implemented in south or France!

    Ecology first !!
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2020
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  29. Snek

    Snek Well-Known Member

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    I guess I'll hold my judgement until I see more of the route on streams next week.
     
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  30. maxipolo12

    maxipolo12 Well-Known Member

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    I think I will hold my money :D
     
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  31. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I know from the scenery in other routes that they don’t really aim to get everything perfectly accurate but they have always managed in my opinion to capture the feel of the real route/area and do indeed do a lot of things very well. Maybe because this is a new part of the world, the route is so long, and they have been using a new environment building tool, they’ve just not managed to capture that feel this time.

    There may have been better choices of scenery assets that they already have but they’ve missed them on this occasion for one reason or another. None of it is going to affect driving the train, which for me is always the most important aspect of it. I’m sure people more local to the route are going to really notice the scenery being off while driving but would it really affect my enjoyment of the route. I’d probably have to say no, just like the incorrect catenary wouldn’t.
     
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  32. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    While I agree that driving the train is still the n.1 priority, the close surroundings is a close second togheter with sounds, as I said above, while it's still a huge shame, it's better than the missing layers in HMA for example... it just feels such a shame, as making it better, to an outsider like me, looks so easy... yet so unlikely.
     
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  33. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    It’s really ironic, because if ECW had this routes’ lighting, it’d look and feel so much better. Likewise to this route having ECW’s lighting.

    - ECW gives off a hot, dry and hazy feeling in pretty much all seasons due to its lighting setup.
    - This route gives off a rather ‘cold’ and rather over vibrant look. Exaggerated by the trees and foliage.

    If we were comparing lightbulb colour temperatures, then this route would be 5,100K (cold white) and ECW would be 2,500K (warm white). Both should be swapped.

    DTG, could you perhaps swap the lighting properties of both routes? That would literally be perfect.
     
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  34. BR125

    BR125 Well-Known Member

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    And what about next time? or the next non-Northern European route they make? should they just never build new assets? should they not do a route properly if theyre going to stretch to new areas?

    I know this will read quite aggressive in tone, it isnt meant to - its just I find your point strange.
     
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  35. jeremydunn8

    jeremydunn8 Well-Known Member

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    (I posted some of this already in the main TGV thread) So this isn't a really game-breaking issue for me, I think I'll just have a go at messing around with my TV's video settings, but that by no means is ideal. I don't think it would be that big of a thing, though, for them to change some settings in the lighting for the route, but don't you worry, they'll find an excuse not to do it. I mean, how hard can it be to pull up a photo to compare, and try to match that? Anyways, I've done it myself using a couple route preview photos to demonstrate what I think it should look like, and you can see a huge difference.

    Original:
    IMG_0091.JPG Edited: IMG_0091 2.JPG
    Original:
    IMG_0088.JPG
    Edited: IMG_0088 2.JPG
    I'm doing this with basic photo filters and adjustments, so they could just add a filter on top of the lighting and it would work just fine. Before I go, let's take a look at the real thing (wrong place, I know)...
    [​IMG]
    Looks quite more vibrant and colorful, right? Oh, would you look at that, there's not a million trees...
     
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  36. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    Idem, I think I'll play with some TV settings as well... honestly if they just made it exactly like ECW would be a huge improvement already, even better without some trees, it's not the rain forest...
    but that's the most frustrating thing, as I said, for us outsiders, it does really look like and quick and easy fix (especially considering they already have ECW which is exactly what they need) and remove some trees... but I'm sure there is a reason if they haven't done that/won't do it
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2020
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  37. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Looks bright here and the other screenshots. ss_12c29f287f0b0d5870a7cf7babe93765beb2d84c.jpg
    TSW2_TGVD_WIP_0003.jpg
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2020
  38. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    As I feared from the original screenshots, TS1 got it so much better imo that parched southern France look, plus the buildings in TS1 are better, no German or Britsh flats/apartment blocks there, Matt said on a stream awhile back how odd a route would look if you used the wrong buildings from a different country, then when the Munich Augsburg route comes out> A host of London flats in Munich! :mad:

    Those screenshots above are still showing the wrong lighting and it's still too lush.

    Anyone else thinks most/all the ground textures in TSW2 look shyte?

    Plus the OP should change the second definition in his vote to it doesn't look like the south of France as it obviously isn't a big forest.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2020
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  39. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    Those look a bit better because are the only two areas of the routes without a million trees
     
  40. CowBoyWolf

    CowBoyWolf Well-Known Member

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    For those on PC Use reshade otherwise
     
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  41. Agent Qracle RUS

    Agent Qracle RUS Well-Known Member

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    Right - i buy Cyberpunk 2077 instead this "French" route, and im totally happy)
     
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  42. maxipolo12

    maxipolo12 Well-Known Member

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    I wait some time and some patches ;)
     
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  43. docsnyder1911

    docsnyder1911 Well-Known Member

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    Sure in the southern part there are lesser and not so high trees. But at all it looks much more green in real like in the TS version. In the TS version the whole route looks like a dessert route. So after all the TSW 2 version looks more realistic and better than the TS version.

    You can see that all in the following video from a real TGV cabride Lyon to Marseille. Around 1 h 10 min the route begins in Avignon.

     
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  44. docsnyder1911

    docsnyder1911 Well-Known Member

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    I prefer LGV Mediterranee. :)
     
  45. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Screenshot_20201212-195818_YouTube.png Screenshot_20201212-212451_YouTube.png Looks right here. Lots of trees on that hill.
     
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  46. hightower

    hightower Guest

    It was inevitable that you could find somewhere on the route that naturally has trees, but that doesn’t alter the fact that there appear to be lots of trees where there shouldn’t be elsewhere on the route. The trees also look too tall, green and thick.

    Additionally, the lighting is all wrong. The lighting in the game shot screams Germany / UK rather than Southern France. It’s like comparing Cape Cod with Las Vegas...they’re just very different places.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2020
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  47. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    Because it's the only point of that route that actually has trees, did you watch the whole cab view of Marseille to Avignon to find one of the few area that actually had a lot of trees to then compare? It would be easier to find a place where TSW has more trees than RL
     
  48. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Wow, the TSW2 one looks horrible compared to TS1, judging by these screenshots.

    Also, what the hell is going on with those track ballast textures? Can any game developer look at those repeating patterns in 2020 and say "yeah, it's fine"? I find it pretty unacceptable for a train simulator to have such ugly train tracks.

    Though, to avoid being too negative, I have to say, the rest of the route looks good. I like the complex simulation with the setup procedure and overhead wire mode switch thingy.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2020
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  49. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    I actually saw trees everywhere. They weren't as tall as in TSW, and not as close to the tracks though.
     
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  50. docsnyder1911

    docsnyder1911 Well-Known Member

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    Completely agree with you Anthony.
     

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