PC Lirr Post-update Feedback And Issues (it's Really Bad)

Discussion in 'Technical Reports' started by Dinosbacsi, May 12, 2021.

  1. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Let me just start with that I was really happy when we heard that the LIRR is finally getting it's long overdue fixes. I havn't played TSW2 in a while, but the arrival of the LIRR update finally made me re-install it again and give LIRR a go and try out the new improvements. Well... total letdown, I have to say.

    But instead of whining, I made a list of the issues I found so far in my two runs.
    LIRR route feedback/issues:
    • The lighting overall seems a bit off, there don't seem to be enough shadows and contrast. For example, the ground under the platforms is way too bright, I thought light baking should make those areas darker? Yet almost nothing. Looks very unnatural. The ground also seems too light to me.
    • The new sleepers and third rail renders are a nice improvement, noticeably less popping in. But the supports for the third rail still pop in, I would expect them to slowly appear along with the third rails themselves.
    • The track ballast seems too light and gray to me. I think a bit darker and more brownish would be more prototypical.
    • The passenger information displays at stations are not bad, I like them, but as others have pointed out, do not look prototypical. But not the biggest issue, they still give a lot to the route.
    • Still no static AI in yards and sidings in timetable mode, like there are in the scenarios. Why not? You only have to place them once, then it would be an easy and great improvement.
    • Still no whistleboards at level crossings and bridges, and certain stop markers are missing from certain stations.
    • AI trains have bad audio mixing, their motor and running sounds are way too quiet, even though their clacking over the rails is loud. Makes no sense at all.
    • The ATC obviously is still bad, but maybe even a bit worse than it was? For example, I tried the Change at Jamaica scenario, and the ATC towards Hunterspoint Ave. pretty much just shuts off, gives a "No ATC" light and keeps you going at only 15mph.
    • The camera lock at New York Penn makes no sense at all. You have free camera in the tunnel, then it gets locked on the section between the tunnel and the platforms, then it's free at the platforms again. Why?
    • WORST OFFENDER: the tunnel towards New York Penn clips through the left side of the train very badly at the first right turn. This wasn't an issue previously, as far as I can recall.
      [​IMG]
    • WORST OFFENDER No2: the platforms and especially the pillars will clip the train very noticeably at New York Penn.
      [​IMG]
      [​IMG]
      [​IMG]
    • Some of the skyscraper buildings above New York Penn have broken lighting/reflections, causing them to be partially or completely black, depending on the view angle.
      [​IMG]
      [​IMG]
    • WORST OFFENDER No3: as reported by many players already, certain services will stop at New York Penn over a crossover junction, with the two ends of the train on two different platforms. Ridiculous. And let's not even mention the pillar clipping again.
      [​IMG]
    M7 feedback/issues:
    • Only a few cars produce traction motor noises in the consists. In my test run, for example, only the second car and one another at the back produced them. Meaning the rest of the train has no traction motor sounds at all. You can barely hear it in the cab as well.
      Interestingly, many players are reporting no running noise at all, but to me there was running noise. It was the traction motor sounds that were missing.
    • Horn is barely audiable from the cab, even with open windows. With the windows closed, you can't hear it at all at speed, it's so quiet.
    • Opening and closing the windows barely makes any differenc in sound levels, other than making the horn a bit more audiable.
    • The units seem to be less shiny and metallic than they used to be.
    M3 feedback/issues:
    • Player's train spawns without the marker lights on (unlike the M7 does), therefore you have to run all the way to the back of the train to have rear marker lights.
    • The AI sometimes will still have their front marker lights on when running.
    • DIM headlight setting doesn't light up the upper headlights, only the lower two ones. This is not prototypical, as far as I know.
    • Pressing Q on the keyboard no longer moves the alerter handle, it only presses the dead-man's pedal. Interestingly that still acknowledges the regular alerter, but it will not acknowledge the alerter when it rings because of a new speed restriction. Therefore you need to acknowledge it by using the mouse. This wasn't the case before.
    • The traction motor and other sounds are pretty good for the M3, but the horn, just like for the M7, is way too quiet. Again, you can barely hear it from the cab.
    • The door/comms control key moves the other way to mouse input compared to the way it does for the M7.
    • The M3 also lacks shininess, just like the M7. It looks like it's made out of plastic. What happened to the materials?
    So far that's all I noted. Some are just minor things, but many of them are pretty big issues. And I could encounter all of these in just TWO test runs. Sorry but what the hell are you guys doing? I mean what actually got fixed/improved is great, but how can someone test run this route and decide the update is release worthy? Or do you guys not test at all? I mean I know it's an old and boring question, but at this point I seriously wonder if anyone, even a single person from the dev team, tried the route before release...

    I like you guys and I really loved this route in TSW, but this is just very, very sad. If this was the full update after who knows how many months, and you plan on keeping the route in this state, then you might as well pull it from the store... Really.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2021
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  2. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    Well this is rather disappointing that these were not caught and fixed.
     
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  3. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    I’m sorry, but how did this get through QA? It seems that with every improvement there have been two new issues introduced. How does this even happen? How can a train suddenly start clipping the scenery? Did anyone play with LIRR before it went to release? The 3rd rail supports popping in is very very distracting. Even on PS5. Way too close to the train. I want to love LIRR, it deserves to be loved, but something has messed up here big time.
     
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  4. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    New issues can’t keep being introduced. At this rate, they’ll never be close to perfection.
     
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  5. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Makes me wonder as well. Even though I don't remember this much clipping happening in the previous versions. There was some, but not this much. And the New York Penn tunnel definitely didn't clip through the trains before, this one is 100% new.

    At this point I don't even want them to aim for perfection, I just want an enjoyable experience which is not getting ruined every 5 minutes by bugs and other immersion breaking issues. The fact that this was the "big LIRR update" and they didn't even try to fix the ATC is a joke by itself. You literally can't drive on the route properly.
     
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  6. voy_tech

    voy_tech Member

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    I wrote this comment just to keep this topic up, because I feel it definitely needs attention. If DTG does not notice this, other players should: hey, guys, just look how laughable this long-awaited update is.

    It's beyond sad. Disappointed, not surprised.
     
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  7. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    That at least has been addressed in streams by Matt, as a problem that affects all of TSW2: since each piece of rolling stock, even static ones, represents a full physics model loaded into memory (and stealing CPU cycles), static trains and cars kill the framerate. This is much less a factor in scenario mode because no trains exist except the ones the scenario specifies, but in TT mode every train has to be accounted for.

    The obvious solution, methinks, would be to create static-model cars which have no physics models, just visual like buildings, but this is something DTG have yet to implement.
     
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  8. maxipolo12

    maxipolo12 Well-Known Member

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    Are mastery broken too ?

    see attached
    I didn't exceeed 75 mph btw
     

    Attached Files:

  9. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    LIRR actually has toned down static-only M7 and Amtrak car models for this purpose. They look the same on the outside, but have blacked out windows, probably are unable to move and I doubt they have any physics at all. Thing is, they are only used in scenarios. I doubt it would take them much to place them around in timetable mode as well.
     
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  10. HeyYoPaulie!

    HeyYoPaulie! Well-Known Member

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  11. Redmanb11

    Redmanb11 New Member

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    Another (recurring theme) issue, custom liveries created for the M3 and M7 are unable to be selected for timetable mode, only in scenario editor, nor do they spawn on AI traffic, a bit disappointing tbh.
     
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  12. QNS Chris

    QNS Chris Active Member

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    I've experienced the exact same issues you described, with the most recent being having the train split between tracks at Penn.

    One additional - where did the tunnel sounds / ambience go? Was this permanently discarded? The tunnel echo exists on the Bakerloo (in some parts) and certainly existed on the TSW1 version. The lack of tunnel sounds / echo / effects SERIOUSLY detracts from the route. DTG - please fix.
     
  13. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Another small, but incredibly easy to see issue if you bother to test drive the route at least once. The stop marker for 6 cars at Garden City station is floating in the air.
    [​IMG]
    How you miss this when placing it during route building is one thing, as an accidental Ctrl+Z might move it without you noticing. But how do you miss this during testing, when you're supposed to look for these at every time you stop at a station?
     
  14. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Some more issues I've noticed during my run tonight.

    First of all, at night most of the station lights produce these weird "artifacts". These look to be coming from reflections from the paltform lights. At some stations these are horizontal lines, at other stations they are vertical. They appear and fate out as you pass by the each lightsource. It can be observed on most, but not all stations at night.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Talking about lights, many of the stations also seem to have a bunch of these "phantom" lightsources just floating there. They're not attached to any lamps and make no sense at all, just random, strong lightsources floating in the air.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    I'm going to be honest, it's a rather small issue and would't be that much of a deal. But when the preservation crew update patch notes specifically included improving lighting at stations, and then this is the result, then that's kind of weird. Did you guys not check out how the reworked stations look at night at all?

    Also another floating stop marker, this time at Carle Place.
    [​IMG]

    And more horrible clipping at Penn Station.
    [​IMG]

    If anyone from the DTG team is reading this, please tell me, should I write like 50 tickets out of these, or should I not even bother? Thanks.
     
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  15. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    It's probably a good job that finding bugs isn't a drinking game, otherwise we would all be hammered.

    Unfortunately it seems that the bug fixing is done after such a drinking game...

    The advice from DTG has been to log tickets, that way they have a record of such things. Apparently they read all the threads on here, however I personally take that with a pinch of salt...
     
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  16. Yoinkermcskoinker

    Yoinkermcskoinker Well-Known Member

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    The most annoying part is, they have already done this on some LIRR scenarios with the static Amtrak coaches in penn station
     
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  17. KoeleKoen

    KoeleKoen Well-Known Member

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    Just did a hempstead atlantic service and i was wondering... Is it new that every stop now has a stop signal and atc dropping to 15mph every station? Only when you lock doors it opens up the next block..
    Tedious and no fun at all, they just made lirr worse... Probably not using this route again with the current list of issues.. Shame
     
  18. DTG Natster

    DTG Natster Community Manager Staff Member

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    We do indeed read everything, although unfortunately we don't have the availability to reply to all comments.
     
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  19. Jannerdunk

    Jannerdunk Well-Known Member

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    Interesting, I tried a couple of runs with the M3 at the weekend with the safety systems on and whatever I tried I could not get the alerter bell to shut up, pressing Q had no effect. The train continued to have power. This was never an issue prior to the update. For the sake of my sanity, I was forced to switch the safety system off in the end.

    I will have try the alerter with the mouse.

    EDIT - Confirmed - The mouse has to be used to move the alerter handle as the "q" key now only moves the deadmans pedal
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2021
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  20. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Yes, also static M7 trains around the sidings at Jamaica and at the depot. Considering no timetable services go to those sidings anyway, they could really populate them with those static.

    Yes, that one is a new problem as well. Interestingly it doesn't happen at every station. Like here am I picking up passengers at Mineola I believe, and interestingly this time the ATC didn't drop to 15MPH, only to 40MPH. But at most station, like 90% of them, it really does drop to 15MPH for no reason at all.
    [​IMG]

    Anyway here is a picture showing that the AI keeps driving with it's front marker lights on. I mean it's good that the update made them finally have their rear markers on, but why the front ones as well? Also they drive with dim headlights, which cleary shows, because the upper main headlights are not on - which is also incorrect. As far as I know, all 3 headlights should be on even on dim settings.
    [​IMG]

    Also, on some positive note, I do like the new routings on the main branch. The fact that some trains finally take the express tracks is really great, so good job with that! However, why do trains arriving into New York Penn do this at the switches? Seems pretty pointless to switch to the opposite tracks, just to instantly switch back. And it also blocks departing trains from leaving, as the arriving trains "swerve" into their lanes.
    [​IMG]

    Also, a small thing I noticed is that the crossing gates are really quiet. For a while I thought they simply don't make any sound at all, but today I realized that they in fact do make a ding ding sound. It's so quiet that you have 0% chance of hearing it from the train even as you go right through them. Which is really stupid, because why do they make any sound if you can't even hear them to begin with? They could really be toned up (along with the train horns).

    Anyway I guess I will wait for tonight's roadmap stream then write a ticket about these. I'd want them documented so hopefully at some point something happens with at least a few of these issues.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2021
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  21. Jannerdunk

    Jannerdunk Well-Known Member

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    TrainSim-Adam - Tagged as per tonight's live stream - re M3 alerter issue
     
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  22. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Yep, especially the alerter issue on the M3 and the traction motor sounds not playing on all cars on the M7. These two issues seemed to be new information to them - hopefully both are easily fixable, after all both were fine in the original TSW version.
     
  23. jayzhead

    jayzhead Active Member

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    With raildriver it's even worse. The alerter button does nothing as far as I can tell, not even the deadman pedal; while the fifth blue button from the left in the top row that is marked "Alerter" in settings DOES move the alerter handle - but it also, for some strange reason, turns off the ATC master breaker altogether, so if I try to silence the alerter with that, I end up with no safety systems. It's a total mess. The weird thing that it worked tolerably on initial release, I did a couple of runs and the safety systems button moved the alerter handle as it should - although with a random delay, which still sucks, but now it's worse. The "day 1 fix" they released broke it even more. Funny.

    Also, is it just me, or on many stations the passengers disembarking the train "drown" into the platform for a second, so that only the top of their head is visible? I've had that happen pretty regularly on both M3 and M7. And the passenger behavior that most annoyed me before the update - the fact that when you first open the doors at the very first station at the start of a service, your train literally empties - everyone just gets off, wasn't at all addressed in this update. They still abandon your train right before departure as if there's a fire, and you're left transporting mostly air for the remainder of your trip.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2021
  24. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Yes, both seem to be the case. Though I havn't noticed passenger sinking into the platform recently, but to be honest I never really watched them anyway. I usually drive from the cab and just sit there waiting for departure. But I do remember this bug from the past as well.
     
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