Liverpool-crewe 1958 Is The First Steam Route

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by WonterRail, Jan 22, 2022.

  1. Quentin

    Quentin Well-Known Member

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    I'm very happy with this route (particularly as it's quite near where I grew up watching steam trains), but I think I may have to budget for a new PC with an RTX 3090TI :).
     
  2. Tank621

    Tank621 Well-Known Member

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    I completely, totally and utterly disagree with you on this, Crewe and Liverpool Lime St are two truly iconic British Railway locations. I can't wait to explore and admire these stations in all their historic glory.

    The Jubilee is a beautiful locomotive and the 8F is one of the most significant locomotives of the time.

    I am very happy with this choice indeed.
     
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  3. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    Talk about a plug.
     
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  4. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    You really should watch the video. They show a google maps overlay and give some explanation on what is included and what not. Be aware that all this is still subject to change. In is a short route but impressive.
     
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  5. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    Loco's are NOT ports from TS. They have far more detail, using simugraph to drive them and new sound recordings using present day technology. They also are not very similar, the Jubilee is a three cylinder passenger train loco (you can see the huge wheels indicating it is used for express services), the 6F is a freight engine. Both are quite big and I would have loved driving a Jinti instead, but it fees OK for me. No comments to the choice of the route. It is big and busy and I am not sure how it will work out with a limited variety in rolling stock.
     
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  6. tbaac

    tbaac Well-Known Member

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    Re the locos being "ports from TS", you might as well call the wagon sounds "Ports from TS" just because DTG got AP to help with them! They called in the people who did them well for TS1, and same with the 2 locos (getting BMG in to help). BMG presumably helped add a couple of their usual touches, such as the tea flask, but it doesn't make it a port!
     
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  7. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    No need to complain for you. Probably this is better that the route in present day. In present day you will be disappointed due to deviations from what you see in real life. Also, you get a "home route". Being Dutch there is no chance DTG will ever develop anything that even relates to the Netherlands.
     
  8. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    There is no such thing as a TS to TSW port. That's a myth. Untrue. False. It really undermines the efforts it takes to do a loco for TSW.
    Also: Most locos are in TS. If they only should do locos and routes that are not in TS, there's not much shiny stuff left for UK and German railfans.
     
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  9. Knightfire1964

    Knightfire1964 Well-Known Member

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    almost any dlc dtg will do is going to be most likely be already on ts classic what do you expect them to do then
     
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  10. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

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    While I'm still not sold on Steam, I am at least glad they picked a pretty solid route, along with a pair of great locos

    One of my earliest memories of Steam in real life is seeing Leander on the Scarborough Spa Express at York. As an eight year old seeing such a majestic and powerful machine up close was awe inspiring. I remember I was even briefly allowed onto the footplate and let me tell you. TSW2 will NEVER be able to create that feeling. No game can.

    Despite my personal fondness for the Jubilees I feel like the Royal Scot Class would have been a better fit. My father agrees, and he would have been around eight when this route was set. I feel like they are more closely associated with the WCML, while the Jubilees have more of a connection with the Midland Region out of St Pancras (my steam knowledge isn't the best, so feel free to correct me). I dare say the Royal Scots are more iconic too, although that's subjective.
     
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  11. 5cip

    5cip Active Member

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    so coool :love:
     
  12. LodeStar

    LodeStar Active Member

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    I am happy with the choices made so far. They take a gamble with two major steam engines and a mainline at the same time. I am very positive about this and am looking forward to follow the route-progress and see it come to life during the coming months.

    I think it's a good idea that they don't use the most well-known locomotives first. I mean, everyone would have liked an A4 or Flying Scotsman (A3). But it's better to bring them in when everything is arranged technically and they feel comfortable enough to create them to its full potential. Not downgrading a Jubilee and Stanier 8F...obviously! ;)
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2022
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  13. nwp1

    nwp1 Well-Known Member

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    Awesome package. Thanks DTG.

    Hope we see Manchester to Crewe via the separate sections of Stockport and Manchester Airport in the next few years. Would really be interesting as would the SVR.
     
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  14. chris-wall75

    chris-wall75 New Member

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    wher is my map of Train Sim World® 2: RhB Anniversary Collection
     
  15. Rybnicki

    Rybnicki Well-Known Member

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    Including the Riviera line in the 50s they mention as an alternative!
     
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  16. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

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    I was actually 60% sure we'd see a Black 5 with this release, that then jumped to 80% when they revealed the route. So in a way I am glad they chose a middle ground between generic and iconic, if that makes sense.

    I apologise to any Black 5 fans, they're fantastic locos but I feel like Jubilees are more exotic and exciting versions of them. It's just that there are SO MANY Black 5s in preservation compared to other classes, so they kinda lose their magic. There have been plenty of times in the past where I've got excited finding out a steam special is on, seen what loco is hauling it, gone "oh it's only a Black 5",and not bothered going to see it.
     
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  17. Rybnicki

    Rybnicki Well-Known Member

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    There's quite a bit on Youtube, I'm sure one of the British Transport Films of the era would show Crewe. As well as that, here's a video of some comings and goings from the beginning of electrification in 1960, and here's a full 75 minute documentary on the history of Crewe works, which of course will show you the 50s and more.
     
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  18. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    The mersey crossing is going to be interesting!! In 1958 along side the Railway Viaduct, you've got a partially built Runcorn/Widnes/Jubilee Bridge and also the Runcorn/Widnes Transporter bridge in operation. I hope they make the transporter bridge operational.
     
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  19. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    Crewe Station is iconic, Liverpool Lime Street Iconic, the Weaver flyover junction a world 1st, the Mersey & Weaver viaducts both amazing pieces of infrastucture, with scope for some amazing views from both of them.

    All we need is a a period aircraft landing at Speke airport as we cross the Mersey as a steamship chugs up the Manchester ship canal below and we've got an epic period route.


    How you can say this is isn't. A glamourous route available is beyond me.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2022
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  20. damarjatiaji

    damarjatiaji Guest

    Gonna be first day purchaser
    Although it's better if the freight loco is BR Class 9F, but i'm gonna buy it anyway
     
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  21. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    Going to be honest and didn't think they would choose a route like this but glad they have Crewe. Would of loved to see the original Liverpool - Manchester but that might be a tad early and my bias. But if they do Crewe station justice then it will look good at least.
     
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  22. SHINO BAZ

    SHINO BAZ Well-Known Member

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    The number one thing that could kill this first tsw2 steam route day one is "insufficient testing" Yea i know dtg testing has always been a mess but with steam coming in to tsw2 being a new thing dtg getting a 2nd chance with something new steam.For example matt said there was at least 1700 hundred signals here's hoping there not another redlight disaster.
     
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  23. paulc

    paulc Well-Known Member

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    Ok DGT, if you only grant me one wish could it be to include the Wallerscote sidings/Winnington works branch!? I'm certain that is where the loco screenshots were taken Goratage sidings off the mainline between Acton Bridge & Hartford, would be great to depart the mainline & deliver freight practically to my front door :D
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2022
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  24. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    Well, I'm glad this is coming soon now. Steam has been a promise for TSW for soooo long now, and it's finally about to be fully made now with its first route between Crewe and Liverpool, it should be a good one to drive on (hopefully). And as a bonus, got two of my top 3 favorite LMS locos of UK steam included that's made from Bossman (well done indeed) for freight and passenger, a good balance to play on for sure.
    So it's definitely gonna be a Day 1 for me no matter what, but I will see about that when it gets closer to release.
     
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  25. fanta1682002

    fanta1682002 Well-Known Member

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    rtx 4090
     
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  26. fanta1682002

    fanta1682002 Well-Known Member

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    yes me too
     
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  27. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    It is WIP. Weathering and detailing is about the last thing to be done.
     
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  28. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, there is no such thing as a loco "port" from TS, any more than a real gun can be a "port" from an airsoft gun. The original may be the same, and research done once doesn't have to be done again, but a loco for TSW has to be built from the ground up, from scratch.
     
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  29. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I’m not complaining, I’m happy it’s coming, and there are advantages to a period version of the route. I wouldn’t expect the scenery to be absolutely accurate at any time period though. I already have TVL which just happens to be set when I was studying in Middlesbrough, so I am a bit spoilt, and even though I’m much more knowledgeable about the scenery around the north half of the Crewe-Liverpool route over the last 40 years or so, it’s not as far back as 58 from my personal experience. I’m more interested in it having the right ‘feel’ than it being spot on, something that TVL got fairly close.

    It’s going to be the biggest scenery dependent part of the route I think. That area has gone through so many changes over the decades but the big one is the bridges of course. Having the transporter bridge traversing the river should be easy enough to include. That’s something in common with TVL, which has both a transporter bridge and an animated moving bridge in TSW. The Mersey is going to be an iconic part of this route. The sight of steam trains on the long viaduct is going to be awesome too.
     
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  30. chessiet#4231

    chessiet#4231 Active Member

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    Excellent news, Crewe station will be stunning I’m sure!
    Brilliant choice of the locomotives, and I’m glad to hear that auto fireman can be enabled. Looking at the screenshots the graphics are fantastic, well done to the team.
    Very exciting indeed
     
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  31. steve1023

    steve1023 New Member

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    For me initial disappointment it wasn't going to be S & D, but other than that I'm quite pleased. As has been mentioned before it would be good if they could include the line up to the docks - a big part of it is in tunnel. Sam has mentioned a couple of times he would like Crewe to Liverpool in the sim and I think it was said on the road map stream that Spirit of Steam was his little project (initially) - don't think I imagined that.

    For me it would be nice to think (dream) that the route could be modernised a little (but not too much) so we could have early AC loco's, AM4 and probably still include steam loco's (black 5, 8F and Std loco's).

    The images of the wagons looked really good, the box vans from NTP class 40 pack would surely fit and hopefully the Mk1s will be done properly, including a correctly modelled Mk1 CK, something which DTG have never managed to do in nearly 15 years of the TS franchise.
     
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  32. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    As I remarked, at first I was unimpressed but after seeing that section on the video clip I came round. Doesn’t stop me lamenting its not the S&D and they have gone for girth rather than length (!), if they were going to do Crewe maybe an entire section of the WCML, Crewe to Preston or Crewe to Rugby would have suited better and given a slightly longer run.

    Other issues that came to mind after watching the clip. If the pictures are taken from the route, it looks a bit too modern. In 1958 most lines in the UK were still laid with jointed bullhead rail on wooden sleepers. Flat bottom rail was relatively rare as were concrete sleepers and installation of continuous welded rail didn’t really get under way until the mid 60’s. I stand to be corrected if the research has shown otherwise at that location, but something that needs to be addressed during the WIP period.

    Mark One coaches… Looking forward to seeing what the range is. However I hope DTG and whoever is making these has realised in 1958, the original design was still those in use. i.e. B1 bogies, wooden interior panelling and tungsten lighting. No blue moquette, plastic panelling or strip lighting. Oh and steam heat. In fact it would be great to see this implemented through the rolling stock with the slight hiss and leaking out of every slightly loose hose and the escape valve on the rear vehicle. Having steam heat activated from the loco is also going to affect your boiler pressure, slightly. B1 bogies running at speed on jointed bullhead rail make a particular musical ringing sound and that absolutely must be replicated.
     
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  33. lcyrrjp

    lcyrrjp Well-Known Member

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    Excellent choice of route, excellent choice of locos. I’m glad they went for the real workhorses, not something more glamorous.

    My father went to school in Manchester in the late 50s. At lunch time he and his friends would make the short walk to the lineside to watch the Pullman which passed at that time. It was booked to be hauled by a Royal Scot but he well remembers the collective groans of disappointment “Oh, it’s a Jub!” when a Jubilee was in charge.

    But the reality was that the Jubilees hauled (and were the booked traction for) a lot of the Manchester and Liverpool expresses and were very capable and fast runners.

    While Crewe-Manchester would have been a personal preference, I understand why DTG went for Liverpool, as it’s a more interesting route really. It’s also a brave choice - both Crewe and Liverpool are enormous tasks to take on. Personally I hope they focus on the main route and don’t complicate things further with branches - quality over quantity. I would appreciate 101s and 40s in a layer, though. The 40s would work the same schedules as the Jubilees, so no need for a new timetable, and the 101s could work stopping services, which for me it’s important to have.

    Well done DTG - a day 1 purchase for me.
     
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  34. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    You mean Northern Trans-Pennine layering them in
     
  35. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    They weren't pictures from the route; AIUI the route is nowhere near ready to be photographed. To take the loco screenshots, Matt plunked them down in the Editor, which defaults to modern tracks.
     
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  36. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    Of course, that makes sense. Thank you.
     
  37. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    I don't care of when where and by what we are driving as long as it is high quality. I am not interested in steam and this is the main reason for buy to start beeing interested. I hope Big Boy by Smokebox level of fidelity is the starting point for DTG.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2022
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  38. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I personally know sod all about the route, sod all about the train but had a nose on YouTube last night after the steam.

    They'll be disappointment regardless of what they choose and happiness regardless of what they choose. I'm in camp joy as an open minded new explorer of the era.

    what I would like to see is more information about the trains ( I refer back to my previous comments elsewhere ) similar to forza so I can look around and learn more . What does this lever do, hover over it, pop up comes up etc

    As long as it faithfully bellows steam which doesn't look weak but doesn't kill fps and as long as it doesn't have awful radial blur then for those of us who have never toyed with them the route and train are perfect initial choices
     
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  39. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I get that it was the editor, obviously not a case of what you see is what’s in the final product then. Worth mentioning nonetheless as it’s not the first time a period route has suffered from the Game Of Thrones coffee cup syndrome!

    Right now I’m just hoping DTG’s ambition and the wish to please the big bossman (PJ) by including Crewe hasn’t clouded practicality with what can be delivered and what will actually work. Still think they should have gone with something less complex as proof of concept.
     
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  40. Yoinkermcskoinker

    Yoinkermcskoinker Well-Known Member

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    Even though im not a kettle-head im still really excited for this route! Even if its not my cup of tea ;] i can still make a modern scenario for it and share it on the creators club, hopefully before that though we get the scenario planner improvements
     
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  41. JealousSheep768

    JealousSheep768 Well-Known Member

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    I have one request. The locos are incredibly grimy
     
  42. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    Do they have to be specific...

    It's a forum for a game. Not a Wikipedia page where all info is wanted or needed.
     
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  43. 4-COR

    4-COR Well-Known Member

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    there’s plenty of old super 8 footage uploaded on youtube, although this seems to be more focused on the latter days of steam in the 60s
     
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  44. tbaac

    tbaac Well-Known Member

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    Is it too early to hope for a Black 5 as DLC? :D

    3 things at a time I guess (exciting route and the 2 locos).
    I was imagining earlier being in the brake van (presumably you can see the rest of the train from the brake van, even if it doesn't have a seat on top like the caboose) and AP's wagon sounds as you're watching it should be fantastic.
     
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  45. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Nothing that currently exists in game could be authentically layered into 1958, except the BR Green Class 09, and MAYBE the Class 33. Everything else either didn't exist yet, or just barely existed (40, first production April 1958), or would have to be completely reworked, not just reskinned (20, 31, 101).
     
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  46. 4-COR

    4-COR Well-Known Member

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    33s were southern region so i couldn’t see one ending up in liverpool
     
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  47. tbaac

    tbaac Well-Known Member

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    Ahh, but imagine the ICE 3 in off the rails mode ;)
     
  48. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    I hope they do a modern version of this route. Whilst I love steam trains in real life, I have no interest in driving them in game.
     
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  49. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Which brings us to the topic of tutorials. I’m sure I’m not the only one here who doesn’t actually know how to operate a steam loco. I mean, I know how a steam loco works theoretically from an engineering standpoint, but I don’t know how all of that translates into actual operation of one.

    I have to admit, Matt’s comment here was slightly disappointing to me. Apparently, initial investigation into this matter does not look promising and they may just have to turn motion blur off for steam. As I’m one of the people really enjoying motion blur to give a sense of speed, that solution would be rather disappointing for me.
     
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  50. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Take that back - the 33 would at least have to have the headcode box removed and the yellow panels painted out.
     

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