Liverpool-crewe 1958 Is The First Steam Route

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by WonterRail, Jan 22, 2022.

  1. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2020
    Messages:
    1,146
    Likes Received:
    2,904
    Me neither. But for sure true. Didn't Matt or Sam said, that they worked nearly 2 years on CSX: Heavy Haul (SPG) as it was the first TSW-route? I think GWE also took a lot of time as it was just the second route. Comparing it to now, there must be a significant difference in development time per kilometre - which is of course not a steady nuber, but rather dependent on what kind of scenery you have next to the track.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2016
    Messages:
    2,920
    Likes Received:
    3,895
    Also, GWE necessitated the development of a UK signalling system, AWS, TPWS (even though it didn't work), passengers and their AI, and they also had to solve the problem of moving between coaches (before GWE, you couldn't just move between rail vehicles by default - you had to look in a specific location and press E), a diesel hydraulic physics system, 2 locos, 2 sets of wagons, 1 set of coaches, 1 DMU, and a 40 mile commuter route.

    Matt said at the time in response to criticism that it only goes as far as Reading, he said something along the lines of 'I'd have loved to go all the way to Penzance, but see you in about 20 years'. He also mentioned it on a later stream that they originally planned to have all the branches to GWE, but they got cut very quickly because they realised the spec was perhaps a bit too ambitious (I think ATP was also cut at the time as well). If they were making and releasing GWE now, they'd most likely include the Greenford branch and ATP, and possibly the airport branch, or they'd go to Didcot.
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  3. fabristunt

    fabristunt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2019
    Messages:
    593
    Likes Received:
    1,105
    That is amazing! Steam and smoke bouncing off enviromental elements would be a first for me.
    Hopefully it works with tunnels too. One day we might see something like this:

     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2020
    Messages:
    2,327
    Likes Received:
    3,744
    Oh, absolutely. It would be amazing to have steam bouncing off everything. I just have my doubts as to whether that is really feasible from a performance perspective.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  5. fabristunt

    fabristunt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2019
    Messages:
    593
    Likes Received:
    1,105
    I share your doubts, especially considering DTG's strive for equality with Gen 8 consoles...
     
  6. WonterRail

    WonterRail Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2018
    Messages:
    487
    Likes Received:
    2,216
    Right, I think it's now time for me to jump in and lay my thoughts on the whole thing, now that the the dust has settled a little and I think I'll post it here, rather than over on another thread because I think it would be pointless to do so when I made this thread in response to the whole announcement of TSW2's first steam route (which has gained a lot of traction since, making it perfect to post my thoughts here).

    So a reminder of what this route is, it is of course the main line between Liverpool and Crewe set in 1958, a distance of 34.4 Miles (55.4 km) featuring both the LMS Jubilee 4-6-0 for passenger services and for freight, you have the LMS 8F 2-8-0. These with will come along with a variety of rolling stock including:
    • BR Mk1's (Not been shown yet)
    • 16 ton Mineral Wagon
    • Conflats (Comes with two types of load, a small & large box)
    • 5-Plank Wagon
    • Standard 20 ton Brake Van
    • 2-Axle Box Van (Similar to the one from NTP's BR Heavy Freight Pack. Wasn't shown or mentioned in the stream, but since confirmed to be appearing by Matt on this very thread in fact).
    Now I'll start by saying this that, I actually this is a great pick for TSW2's first steam route. Now going into this announcement, a lot of people had the thought that this was going to either be a small route or a just a loco add-on for something like West Somerset Railway. I even thought that would be easy for DTG to just readapted one of their existing UK steam-era routes available on TS Classic for TSW2 like the S&D or Riviera in the 50's. But instead, we actually got a route that is far more ambitious than anyone would have thought at first, but is also something new that we haven't really seen before from either TS Classic or TSW.

    But I also think this selection really isn't something of a surprise as the talk of doing this route has been around for a long while now. I remember back during the end of year Q&A in 2020 that Sam mentioned that was a route that he would most want to do and, as I've seen some people bring up here, this is kinda fulfilling the dream of the company's CEO, Paul Jackson, who has always wanted to have a steam-era route set out of Crewe (he even mentioned it in the initial article talking about steam that came out just about a year ago now) and low and behold, here it is, we are getting a a steam-era set out of Crewe towards Liverpool Lime Street.

    Now starting with the locos themselves, I think they are a decent pick to give one that offers a passenger/express experience and another that is primarily used on freight traffic (and sometimes on passenger traffic as well, but we will see what the plans are for this loco on this route at a later date). Now you could argue that maybe the two locos are a bit similar to each other, but here's the thing you got to remember. Firstly, this normally seems to fit in line with what a typical TSW2 release would be, which is to have one loco that is passenger oriented and another that is more freight centric. I would of maybe liked to have seen a more regional passenger loco, as well as a shunting loco on top, but that's maybe something for a loco add-on to tackle in the future.

    This also leads me on to another thing, this route comes with 2 new locos. This deserves much more recognition than it's getting right now because, this normally never happens in TSW2 nowadays. From what I checked, the last time a new TSW route release came with more than one new loco was Northern Trans-Pennine, released back in December 2018, over 3 years ago (The two new locos back then were the Class 45 Peak & the Class 101 DMU). Ever since then, most new route released have either had one new loco and the rest are reused from other routes, or a roster just made up of stuff already available with it sometimes being upgraded with a new variant/livery or functionality. This kinda shows that DTG, is putting in a lot more effort into this route than what they would normally do for a typical route release and being honest, I feel like they had too, as most of the rolling stock we have at the moment didn't exist back in 1958, with the only reused assets being the Mk1 coaches and the Box Van from NTP (even at that, these items are getting new sounds and hopefully a new livery in the case of the former, more on that in a bit), everything else is brand new to TSW2 which, as much as I do like the formula of having a most one new loco and everything else reused, is actually rather refreshing for a change and something that, unless we see another steam-era route like this, probably won't happen again for a long time, so I would enjoy this more ambitious approach while you can.

    On the subject of the Mk1 coaches, it's not something that bothers me that much, I would have been nice to have some new coaching stock for this route, but this route can live with just having these coaches for now. But one question I do have is what's going to be the livery for these coaches as this as far as I'm aware, wasn't mentioned at all during the stream, so I would have like to have know what the livery on these coaches are going to be at least. I would have a guess that it's either going to be BR Maroon or Crimson & Cream. Or maybe even both, but we will have to wait and see on that.

    One more thing I would like to mention here is Bossman Games involvement in this, which I think will be a great asset for this route. Some of the stuff they have made for TS Classic look genuinely great, I even had the S15 they made back when they first started out and I do remember enjoying it back then. So I look forward to seeing what they can do to help further enhance this overall experience and also, I do hope that this means, once this route is actually out, that they do eventually jump in a make their own content for TSW2. If they are up for it, I can see no reason why they would want to make their own stuff for this game and are probably the most likely steam third-party developer to jump into TSW2 at some point in the future.

    But onto the route itself, I've seen a lot of people describe the route as a bit dull, but In my eyes, this is actually a case of where the execution is more important than the concept here. The thing is here is that, I do agree that, if this route was set around today, it wouldn't be a very interesting route at all. Maybe freight might offer an interesting experience as you do have the Jaguar plant at Halewood which is used by car transporter trains to take newly produced cars out of the facility, but the passenger part would have been anything inspiring other than a lot of AI traffic around the two end stations. But by having this route be a steam-era route, it opens the door for some more interesting opportunities as you have the big engine sheds at both Crewe and Edge Hill and you also have a variety and yards (that will be represented) and stations that don't exist nowadays for this route to take advantage of.

    Which leads me to what the timetable could look like, as I am a person who is more interested in the timetable aspects of these routes more than anything else (I don't just make pdf timetables for nothing you know). I generally think that how good this timetable will be will come down to two factors:

    1. How many of the passenger services will be represented here? From looking at archive timetables that people have posted here, it seems like this was a pretty busy route back in the day. Maybe not as much as most routes we've, but still enough to make it interesting. The problem is that how many of those services did the Jubilee work? Or will this be a case that the Jubilee will have to take on services it wouldn't normally run just to boost the numbers of services that it has? We've seen this happen before where there are services represent by a loco that isn't normally what would do those services, but is there in order to get the full timetable experience and it could easily happen again on this route. On the subject of passenger, I also ask... What's going to happen regarding turning around the Liverpool end of the route? I say this because, normally that would mean locos being turned around on the turntable in real life back then, but this is something we have never seen before in TSW, so is this going to change for this route? Or are we just going to see locos use the loop line around Edge Hill in order to get facing in the right direction for departing out of Liverpool? That's something for this route to answer hopefully. I will also mentioned that I do expect there to be AI traffic represented many other services around the two end stations, especially those around Crewe that continue up the West Coast Main Line towards Scotland.

    2. What will freight look like on this route?
    This is important as this is what could really make the difference on this routes timetable. This route seems to have all the right ingredients to make some interesting freight services out of as there's a nice variety of wagons for this route to play with, including TSW's first proper UK brake wagon. It will just come down to what this route does with them, as well as what was freight like on this route back in 1958. But should this done well, it could deliver on some interesting experiences that we don't normally see in TSW2.

    But overall, this has the potential to be amazing and to be one the best things to have ever come to TSW2, if it's executed right, which always seems to be an uncertainty with many of the recent DTG releases we have been getting. But for me, this route is massive a step towards two things. Firstly, TSW2 becoming the game we always knew it could be if DTG just got themselves together as this, alongside the upcoming Creator's Club, are really two big features that are really missing in order for this game to become fully complete and it looks like both will be coming at some point this year (in the case of the later, potentially sometime in the next couple of weeks), but more importantly for me, if there's one that this route succeeds in more than anything else and something that this game has the potential to succeed in far more than any busy 'Rush Hour' route that has tons of traffic on it, it's taking long lost era's of railway history and bringing them back to life in simulation.

    The thing is on that last point is, we can't physically go back in time and experience these era's unless we build a time machine that doesn't alter history and the only chance you will ever get to experience what the era of steam was like is if you go to a heritage railway or go on a steam rail tour. Here though, it may not be quite the same, but with a recreation like this, we can get a glimpse as to what that era was like. I know you can do this on other Train Simulators out there like Trainz or TS Classic, but if there's one thing TSW2 has over most of those games, is that you can walk around and explore the various areas that a TSW route provides. I will be great to climb up, wonder about and play around with the controls inside the cab of a steam locomotive and I can already say that railfanning this route will be an awesome experience regardless of what happens as we get to experience the likes of Crewe & Liverpool during the steam-era, something that so many of us would of wished to have experienced back then.

    We don't know when this route is coming out other than it's months away (I would guess around May-July time, but that will depend on how much work has already been done by the point we had the stream last Saturday) but regardless of what happens between now and then, I look forward to experiencing this route when it ultimately comes out and to experience an era of railways unlike anything else we have seen in TSW2 so far.
     
    • Like Like x 24
  7. mattwild55

    mattwild55 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2019
    Messages:
    201
    Likes Received:
    627
    I'm confident in most things apart from the variety of locomotives. Launching without an appropriate locomotive to perform local, shunting and turnaround duties would be the equivalent of GWE releasing without the 166, and I fear for the variety of the timetable as a result.

    The best option, if it's possible to include one, would be a 3F Jinty I think as it's a go-anywhere-do-anything locomotive that isn't wildly complex. A secondary option could be a Stanier, Fairburn or BR Standard 4MT 2-6-4T but that would be more complex to model most likely.

    I'd like to see the Jinty operate all local passenger and freight services, with the 8F being used for express and heavy freight and the Jubilees used on semi-fast and express passenger services.

    Shunting and turnaround duties could also be performed by the Jinty or a green-liveried 08.

    The ultimate problem is that I don't think there are any existing or planned locomotives that could reasonably be used for local stopping trains. I'm fine with using Mk1 carriages for local services in a pinch but seeing a Jubilee hauling two or three carriages on a stopper would be exceptionally weird.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  8. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2018
    Messages:
    3,330
    Likes Received:
    6,206
    I am certain you wouldn't have seen a Jinty working a local on a mainline route, especially 30 odd miles. Unlike the Pannier tank, Jinties weren't used overly much on passenger services and where they were it was mainly branchline work. Certainly a Liverpool to Crewe stopper would have used a medium to large tank engine or a smaller tender engine, if not something like a black 5.

    It will be interesting to see if there are local train in the timetable or maybe gaps for them!

    Long term it will need something I feel to keep it interesting. A trainspotter in the 1950's standing on Crewe, Liverpool Lime Street or somewhere like Runcorn would have been treated to a procession of different engines on different services and a variety of rolling stock both passenger and freight. Whilst I don't think anyone in their right minds would expect a total recreation of that experience, especially straight away, it would be nice to think in a years time we might have had a couple of extra DLC's and therefore you might not be able to predict what type of engine is on the next arrival at Runcorn.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2022
    • Like Like x 5
  9. mattwild55

    mattwild55 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2019
    Messages:
    201
    Likes Received:
    627
    I stand corrected! In that case a Black Five (plus green 08 for shunting) feels the easiest way to have an appropriate loco? What are the main differences between a 5 and a Jubilee, other than the number of cylinders (2 vs 3 I think)?
     
  10. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    7,787
    Likes Received:
    11,224
    As WonterRail pointed out, two all-new engines breaks the mold; it's too much to expect three (especially since steam is a brand-new frontier for DTG's loco-builders). I do think interest could be increased if they included or layered in shunting with the green 09, which is period-appropriate and would make some use of the massive railyards they have recreated along with all the new freight wagons. Perhaps in the fullness of time it could be replaced with an 0-6-0 saddle tank, but for now it will do.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  11. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    3,675
    Likes Received:
    5,488
    Strictly speaking the 09 was primarily based on the Southern Region, so it would have to be an 08.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. mattwild55

    mattwild55 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2019
    Messages:
    201
    Likes Received:
    627
    We did get three new locomotives with GWE (HST / 166 / 66) - although I agree this is an outlier.

    In principle I agree with what you're saying but to argue the other case for a moment:

    - Steam is brand new and doesn't have many reusable assets at the moment or anything to layer in really
    - Steam is, more than any other era, defined by the variety of locomotives / rolling stock
    (and this is where it gets a bit 'how hard can it be?')
    - The collaboration with BMG means that at least the basic existing models of the Black Five are available, and the similarity in operation could mean that a whole load of work can be carried directly over from the Jubilee. The Simugraph would need a bit of tweaking to reduce to 2 cylinders.

    Speaking in hope more than expectation, I don't think DTG have confirmed anywhere that these are the only two locomotives coming with the route - it could be that they've held something back for a bit closer to release, or because they're not yet ready to show it.

    Side note: does anyone know if the Class 40 would have been seen on local trains? There was at least one allocated to one of the sheds on this route in 1958 from my Googling.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. 4-COR

    4-COR Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2019
    Messages:
    407
    Likes Received:
    891
    40s would have been on express services
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  14. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2020
    Messages:
    1,522
    Likes Received:
    1,683
    Matt said on stream, with Adam I think, that they wanted the GWE to be longer but decided to stop at Reading because of time restraints.

    Also you can't get much simpler than just going to Reading no? IMO it should of gone to Bristol at least, even if they delayed it. The players wouldn't have minded, it is the bean counters who did.
     
  15. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    7,787
    Likes Received:
    11,224
    That would have more than tripled the length of the route- and forced DTG, for its second TSW route ever, to make a route longer (112 miles) than it has even now, four years later.
     
  16. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2020
    Messages:
    1,522
    Likes Received:
    1,683
    Fine by me! Although that would never happen but they are other stations they could have stopped at, Bath, Swindon or Even Didcot. And if they able to merge routes in the future Didcot would open up a lot of other possible routes. I'm biased I know that but Paddington - Reading for GWE is a bit short imo.
     
  17. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    7,787
    Likes Received:
    11,224
    Also, if they ran it out to Bristol, they would also have had to make a 158 for the local traffic at that end. That's four new locos in one DLC.
     
  18. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2020
    Messages:
    1,522
    Likes Received:
    1,683
    Yeah, sounds a lot better than the one we got eh?
     
  19. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    7,787
    Likes Received:
    11,224
    And how much would you have been willing to pay for this splendiferous route?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2020
    Messages:
    1,522
    Likes Received:
    1,683
    How many bugs and inaccuracies are we talking here? Seriously, I would definite pay more for something I really want more than any other route in the game.
     
  21. paulc

    paulc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2021
    Messages:
    773
    Likes Received:
    1,306
    Hopefully some of the actual freight branches will be used here, namely the Winsford branch and the ICI Winnington works branch in conjunction with Wallerscote sidings (Inbetween Acton Bridge & Hartford), Also and I know this could be a stretch as it diverges off the mainline for a few miles there was a substantial goods yard at Northwich that was accessed off the mainline via the CLC spur south of Wallerscote sidings.

    It would be brilliant if these could be used rather than simple A - B freight, the above would provide some great freight moves and shunting.
     
  22. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2018
    Messages:
    3,330
    Likes Received:
    6,206
    The black 5's had a slightly different boiler and a smaller firebox, and the two cylinders, although they weren't that much larger each than each of the Jubilees three cylinders. The Jubilee had a power classification of 6 and were considered an express locomotive. Black 5's were often seen on express services too. I don't think it would be unfeasible for one to work a stopping train from Liverpool to Crewe, they were certainly used on such services elsewhere. They epitomised the term "maid of all work".

    BMG do have the Stanier 5mt Mogul in their catalogue, that would be a useful loco to have and they were certainly based in the area.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2022
    • Like Like x 2
  23. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2018
    Messages:
    3,330
    Likes Received:
    6,206
    I wouldn't have expected three, but hope some DLC won't be far behind.

    As pointed out though they are starting from scratch with steam and modelling a route where express and locals ran alongside each other as well as freight means that something will likely be left out on initial release or some fudge will be made, i.e. a Jubilee and three mark 1's on a stopper service. If they had modelled the S & D for example two loco's some carriages and wagons would have covered all bases, as in the original Rail Simulator release.

    I was pondering earlier if they might include a green class 08 (or even a black one numbered in the 13xxx series), they have the model in the game and unlike some of the mainline diesels it wouldn't have changed much from 1958 to 2018. It could be used as yard pilots, work trip freights and possibly Liverpool Lime Street station pilot, not sure if/when they were used as such.
     
  24. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2021
    Messages:
    1,155
    Likes Received:
    1,631
    Agree, including the Class 09 would be the perfect opportunity to bring it up to the standard of the Class 08. The WSR Version looks nice, but its a low joke compared to the cl.08 features. A loco upgrade is highly needed.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  25. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2018
    Messages:
    3,330
    Likes Received:
    6,206
    Was the only difference between the 08 and 09 gearing or something? I think the 09 had a slightly higher top speed. If so, and I don't know what I am talking about admittedly but could the "physics" just be amended to suit?
     
  26. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2020
    Messages:
    742
    Likes Received:
    840
    That's because the HUD isn't telling you what setting it's at, it's only telling you which direction you're spinning it. You have to use the in cab indicator to know what setting it's actually at.
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  27. Aldarion

    Aldarion Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2020
    Messages:
    58
    Likes Received:
    52
    I'm so glad that steam is almost arriving. This will definitely be in my wishlist, pre-purchase/day-one acquisition.
    And can't help dreaming with a "Spaceship" in future DLC.
     
  28. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2020
    Messages:
    1,655
    Likes Received:
    4,225
    I do also hope there is some kind of mail train represented. For some reason mail and newspaper trains always catch my interest, it's just weird to think those trains were once among the most important express services on railway networks, without even carrying passengers!
     
    • Like Like x 6
  29. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2020
    Messages:
    1,522
    Likes Received:
    1,683
    Wasn't there Milk trains as well? Paper Trains got me out of many a tight spot but yeah, it would be great to see them in game.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  30. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2018
    Messages:
    3,330
    Likes Received:
    6,206
    You would hope they are represented. They were a fundamental part of the railway scene up until the last 20 years.

    There is a lot of scope for DTG to recreate a really immersive long lost experience, I am very much looking forward to it. I hope they rise to the challenge.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  31. khalidaliishmail

    khalidaliishmail Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2019
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    69
    Visit to Edge Hill depot in spring 1968. The only steam left at the depot by this point were Black Fives and 8Fs. Also towards the end of the video covers some of route that was shown in the reveal stream and how it has changed.

     
    • Like Like x 1
  32. pterocles#7018

    pterocles#7018 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2021
    Messages:
    137
    Likes Received:
    43
    And how people like myself, who never ever drove a steam loco will learn to handle these beasts realistically? Dovetail Manuals are not accurate enough to fully cover the handling of a more complex loco (e.g. US freight just to name one) , let alone those ridiculous learning scenarios. I am not going to master the driving of a steam loco with useful suggestions like "you will be spending a lot of time in this seat" and " coasting is an effective method...." etc.etc.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  33. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2020
    Messages:
    2,327
    Likes Received:
    3,744
    Brave of you to assume that there’ll be a manual.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  34. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    3,675
    Likes Received:
    5,488
    This was the problem I found with the Bossman 8F in TS. The manual didn’t really make it clear that the standard HUD is effectively redundant and you need to watch what’s happening in the cab. Cue huge workload trying to manage the loco from the full in cab view (which I found very dark and hard to see anything) trying to see signals through the tiny window which makes the Electrostar cab view seem panoramic in comparison! Traditionally in the sims you tend to drive using the head out view and rely on the HUD to monitor what you’re doing with the controls and levels. DTG need to recognise this and not go hardcore Bossman on the experience.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  35. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2018
    Messages:
    3,330
    Likes Received:
    6,206
    I am sure there will be tutorial videos on youtube. If you use automatic fireman it isn't hard to get to know the basics. Mainly just the brakes and regulator, the hardest thing to get used to is using the reverser and balancing it with the regulator, each locomotive is different. Managing steam pressure is the other important thing, all this can be done with trial and error and you can have a lot of fun trying. Other than that if using automatic fireman there is only really the dampers and cylinder drain thingies (insert perfectly innocent word which is now cencored in this apparently enlightened society we now live in)!

    Matt may make some tutorial videos, I am certain I have seen them from him on youtube for TS1 steam locomotives. There are certainly tutorials on youtube for driving steam locomotives in TS1 and I cannot see them being much different than in TSW, some of the TS1 locomotives are very advanced.

    It might be worth taking a look at what is on youtube.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2022
    • Like Like x 2
  36. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2021
    Messages:
    1,155
    Likes Received:
    1,631
    2 ways are possible.

    1. Go with tsw and make learning by doing. With the 8f or jubilee are both not easy for somebody never drove steam locomotives.

    2. Get yourself the 3f jinty for ts and start with a small advanced steam loco.

    I recommend second, its still a while until spirit of steam comes, so plenty of time to get used to how it works.
     
  37. fabristunt

    fabristunt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2019
    Messages:
    593
    Likes Received:
    1,105
    Why are we all assuming TSW's simulation will be advanced amd comparable to TS's Pro range addons?
    I fear it's just wishful thinking, especially considering the console crowd and the different approach to trains between TS and TSW. I believe TSW's steam will be heavily leaning on the arcade side to please it's type of users.
    We can already see some people afraid of steam and it's not even out yet. Hard to believe it will be as advanced as we hope...
     
  38. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2021
    Messages:
    1,155
    Likes Received:
    1,631
    Physic behaviour in ts was a giant effort. Its also a giant effort in tsw. So the loco works anyway with values from the simmugraph.

    Probably it would be more effort to create a basic operated loco out of the advanced simmugraph than just feeding the values with the players inputs.

    My guess is you can do everything by your self, or use the auto heater, which represents the "simple mode"
     
  39. pterocles#7018

    pterocles#7018 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2021
    Messages:
    137
    Likes Received:
    43
    Arcade or not arcade, this is not the question. Even if it is arcadish, there are going to be tons of switches and all different kind of contraptions which may not be effecting the phisics in the gameplay but I want to know what it is for, and I am maybe mad but I do turn the things on/off as they should work in real life even if they don't do anything in the gameplay. So the question is (was) how I will get this knowlage. Now I know: youtube, TS and this forum.
     
  40. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2021
    Messages:
    1,155
    Likes Received:
    1,631
    Learning by doing is still the best way, nomatter on ts / tsw.

    When you forget your waterlevel you can reload. Next time you wont forget. Ironicly i have to think about the suggestion of the hardcore mode in the topic of the score system, which gives penalty for mistakes.
    Below another profile reset ;)
    Screenshot_20220127-154442_Chrome.jpg
     
    • Like Like x 5
  41. JustWentSouth

    JustWentSouth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2019
    Messages:
    745
    Likes Received:
    1,415
    My favorite workplace saying: “Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.”
     
    • Like Like x 1
  42. paulc

    paulc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2021
    Messages:
    773
    Likes Received:
    1,306
    Yeah if you run out of water and things get explosive you will have issues hiding it from the boss :D

    steam-train-boiler-explosion-2.jpg
     
    • Like Like x 5
  43. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2020
    Messages:
    1,655
    Likes Received:
    4,225
    It looks like Cthulhu is escaping the boiler :).
     
  44. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2020
    Messages:
    2,327
    Likes Received:
    3,744
    [​IMG]
    You could try telling the boss that you simply lost the boiler along the way.
    Oh, nevermind, here it is:
    [​IMG]

    Ok, in all seriousness. This is what was left of the loco:
    [​IMG]
    You can imagine what incredible forces must have been in play here. Sadly, 9 people lost their lives (including the engineer and the fireman) while 45 more were injured since this happened in a station (Bitterfeld in fact - yes the one from Rapid Transit). You can read more about it here, which is also my source for the pictures.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  45. Iskra

    Iskra Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2020
    Messages:
    126
    Likes Received:
    216
    I agree with the comments about 8F and Jubilee spam would spoil the route to an extent, as cracking as those locomotives are and as exciting as they arrival of steam is.

    An easy solution would be:

    8F (freight)
    Jubilee (express passenger)
    08 (shunting, short freight work) could be in either BR Black or Green
    101 (local passenger work) in BR Green. I don't know how prototypical it would be, but it's the quickest and nearest solution already in-game that avoids Jube's looking totally out of place.

    If they released the above, I think the route would be well-received and they could charge a decent price for it and people would still buy. If not prototypical the 101 could be switched out in the future when something more appropriate is released.

    I'm very much looking forward to this route, and I hope it's not spoilt by Jubilee spam- they are my favourite steam locomotive but to see a ridiculous amount of them would affect my enjoyment of the route and make me hesitate to purchase.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  46. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2020
    Messages:
    903
    Likes Received:
    944
    Or not include any stopping services at all (which I suspect will happen) then have a loco DLC sometime later adding these in. Something like a standard 2MT with Mk1 suburban or ex-LMS stock would be ideal.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  47. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2018
    Messages:
    3,330
    Likes Received:
    6,206
    The class 101 wouldn't be prototypical although Crewe South had a few for a while but I don't think they worked the Liverpool services although they could have I guess. Allerton class 108's would have been more likely I would have thought, if indeed DMU's ever ran those services.

    The class 101 would need more than a repaint, it needs to be put back into its pre refurbished form, original coloured seat cushions, original lighting replacing the florescent lighting.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2022
    • Like Like x 2
  48. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2021
    Messages:
    1,155
    Likes Received:
    1,631

    I read the story about the bitterfeld "steam" explosion. Heryesa, thats a bold one. they were out of water 2 times actually. The driver lied about refilling with water just to save time to keep up the timetable. When braking at bitterfeld the remaining water flushed forward at the overheated metal and caused the explosion.

    Here a Link of an interview with the man, who investigated the accident back then: Language German

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SM6u_tUSro

    Zitat: Der Fahrer ist einfach drauf los geschrotet, ob mit oder ohne Wasser, interessierte ihn nicht ;). (The driver rushed away, didnt care with or without water.)
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2022
    • Like Like x 1
  49. SonicScott91

    SonicScott91 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2020
    Messages:
    367
    Likes Received:
    803
    This would be a better idea than adding diesels to the route. It would allow DTG to add an extra steam locomotive to the TSW roster rather than reuse stock we already have.
     
  50. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    7,787
    Likes Received:
    11,224
    How long do you want to wait and how much are you willing to pay?

    The most recent loco DLC from DTG, the Class 313, was released in late October 2021- nearly two years after its home route, East Coastway.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2022
    • Like Like x 1

Share This Page