London Commuter Sounds

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by Horizelux, Sep 21, 2021.

  1. Horizelux

    Horizelux Well-Known Member

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    Hi.
    It's no surprise that the release of the Brighton main Line will be a significant landmark for the Train Sim World franchise, and it's absolutely essential that DTG delivers the route and the trains that come along with it, with exceptional quality. If this route will be the most purchased DLC for DTG, I won't be surprised. From the recently released screenshots, I was happy to see overall satisfactory quality, in the aspect of the scenery itself. (Few inaccuracies here and there, mostly minor and well spotted by the community.)

    However, I have a few questions and suggestions. Question first: The 387 will be getting new sounds, what about the already existing 377?

    The current sounds for the 377 are mediocre, the lack of proper running sounds and the absence of rattling make it less realistic. These trains are a bit old, and used ruggedly most of the time. But hey, I'll let the experts take care of the sounds. As an enthusiastic player, I can think of a few sounds that can completely change the experience of driving a train in TSW2, and making it closer to life.

    The Suggestions: Firstly, and most significantly, rattling and squeaking sounds (while there's a bit of them in the game now), they need a massive improvement. Some trains simulate this quite well, such as the cab cars for the peninsula corridor. In real life, the squeaks and the rattles are a lot more prominent, especially when compared to TSW2's electrostars, which feel as if the train is a brick with wheels, due to the lack of these sounds mentioned above.

    Secondly, I feel the trains just lack that bass. Yes, they are present, but often, they have a tendency to resemble a broken vacuum cleaner. A few trains in TSW2 however do an excellent job with regards to bass, such as the ICE 3, DB BR 101, Talent 2, the revised HST, new ACS-64, etc. As of now, the electrostars lack this layer of bass, and would not only make the sounds more realistic, but also less bland.

    here's a cab video, for reference.
    (Go to about 4:40)

    I've noticed that the DB BR 143's sounds from Nahverker have an added layer of bass, as they sound identical to the ones in the ICE and DB BR 101. Even though it's recycled sounds, it's definitely better than having no bass at all. To that, Adam's team did a fantastic job.

    That's about all I have to say, other than the fact that I'm absolutely hyped for this route. I, as a customer, have faith in the devs, and appreciate their hard work. Magnificent work to all the mods in the forums, and the hosts for the streams. Answering a question for the 753523th time cab be tedious!

    Anyway, that's it. (For real this time.) I hope these can be taken into consideration. Have a magnificent day ahead.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2021
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  2. aglomarsale

    aglomarsale Well-Known Member

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    I agree. I hope the 377 gets new sounds too, it won't be fair if only the 387 gets them. The massive downgrade from the 387 to the 377 will make it so that I wouldn't want to drive the 377.
     
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  3. DTG JD

    DTG JD Staff Member

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    Hey folks,

    Can confirm both the 377 and 387 will be getting new sounds. When we do the preview streams you should be able to get a sense as to how these will sound in practice!
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2021
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  4. Horizelux

    Horizelux Well-Known Member

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    Wonderful to hear that!! The preview stream will be exiting. Thank you for the info! :)
     
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  5. dan5324

    dan5324 Active Member

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    Thank god for that! The current electrostar s sounds aren’t bad. It’s just the lack of running sounds pretty much are a dealbreaker. Doors are also too loud.
     
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  6. I was in an electrostar a couple of days ago and the difference is abysmal, even compared to AP's 377 newest soundpack. Nobody seems to have gotten the electrostars completely right, so hopefully these new sounds will impress us!
     
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  7. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    The biggest issues for me is the acceleration sounds, as well as the bogie joint sounds and running sounds of the 377 in TSW.
     
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  8. xi haoyu china

    xi haoyu china Active Member

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    train have sound now why new sound need ??

    how to make beter sound ??? ??
     
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  9. Trainiac

    Trainiac Well-Known Member

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    Will this 377s new sounds be carried over to the ECW version?
     
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  10. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    No
     
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  11. They need new sound because people who take these trains every day want to feel like they're in real life when playing the game. So if it sounds completely different to real life, it breaks immersion for players.
     
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  12. xi haoyu china

    xi haoyu china Active Member

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    immersion??
     
  13. redtrainz

    redtrainz Member

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    "Immersion" means that players want to feel that the game is like real life.
    For example: if a game is set in Beijing and the Forbidden City (故宮) is not there, that "breaks immersion" because in real life, the 故宮 is there.
    For a train simulator: I'm German and don't know much about British trains. So I can accept any sounds because I don't know the real sounds of the train. But if someone from Great Britain uses those trains in real life, and then in the game the sounds are different from real life, that's not good for "immersion" - the game is too different from real life.
     
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  14. redtrainz

    redtrainz Member

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    Another explanation, since you're learning English: "to immerse" means to dive or to put into water. The noun is "immersion". So the game is like the water where you want to swim. You want to be completely inside of the water/game.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2021
  15. dan5324

    dan5324 Active Member

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    Unless your comparing cab sounds to real life cab sounds then I’m afraid you’re quite wrong. The electrostars, like many modern units sound completely different from cab to passenger saloon, doubly more so if you’re in a different carriage. The AP ones are the best you’re probably gonna get. I maintain the default ECW aren’t abysmal. They just lack any real sounds above 30mph. Which is unrealistic. The point sounds are awful though.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2021
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  16. I never mentioned the cab. I was talking about the motor sounds, which AP has never got completely right outside of the train and inside the carriages. I can't speak about the cab because I haven't been in one, but I don't imagine that the motor sounds change to much from being in the cab to being seated on a passenger seat right next to the cab. While this is a matter of opinion, I cannot say the ECW 377 sounds are good enough for me, as they are objectively much worse than, for example the ICE and Talent 2 sounds in the game. Oh and let's not even talk about the disgusting 395 sounds. Those need a complete remake.
     
  17. In case that any member of DTG is reading this, I would like to request something in relation to this topic.

    On timestamp 0:38 of this video: , you can hear how the motors react to wheelslip on an electrostar. The quick pitching up of the motor happens on most electric trains when they wheelslip, as the wheels turn faster than the train is actually travelling, which in turn speeds up the motor for a second or two.

    Whoever made the new sounds for the ACS-64 knew this and did an amazing job with the wheelslip sounds, so I would like to request for this to be implemented on the LBN electrostar trains as well. Thank you.
     
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  18. dan5324

    dan5324 Active Member

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    You haven’t been in a cab, but you don’t imagine they are very different? Eh?

    As someone that HAS been in an electrostar cab, I can assure you they are very different. You barely hear the motors for a start. Bogie noise is also slightly different due to your location. Track joints also sound completely different due the sound always being behind you, whereas as a passenger you’ll hear them in front, and behind. Cabs also tend to have their own AC, with its own compressors and fans, which are often much noisier than the passenger saloon equivalents.
    The 395 sounds are fine. The cab has a very noise fan in real life. The power handle is slightly too loud, and the door interlock sound when the train goes past 5mph is missing. But they don’t really detract from the sim in anyway.
    I feel you just want the cab to sound like the passenger saloon. You’re gonna be disappointed over and over again as the sounds aren’t designed to represent that.
     
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  19. This is completely irrelevant. As I said in my post, I am talking ONLY about motor sounds. I have not spoken about other sounds because I don't pay attention to them as much, and they are none of my concern. Having been in the ICE 3 cab I can say that the motors sound the same in the cab as they do in the passenger compartment and outside the train, except for volume, which I also don't care about and haven't spoken about. The 395 motor sound is closer to a blender than any high speed train in the world, and no amount of fan noise in the cab can hide that when you're outside the train.
     
  20. dan5324

    dan5324 Active Member

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    Read your posts. Carefully. Slowly. You originally weren’t originally talking about just motors from the outside. We also weren’t talking about the ICE 3.
     
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  21. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    What you hear in the sim cab vs. reality comes down to us needing entertainment! This is why I think it was AP’s Class 37 sounds for TS never appealed as you got the relatively quiet cab not the raw EE thrash. So I’m definitely of the view that some licence needs to be taken. Going a step further, if we ever got something like a 310 or 312 in TSW the power car is actually in the middle of the 4 car formation, no traction sound whatsoever in the driving cars or cabs - but I’d still want the electrothrash.
     
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  22. dan5324

    dan5324 Active Member

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    In an ideal world we’d have two options. A realistic option. And an option where you can hear the motors and everything else from the cab. I think there was a 395 sound pack that did just had. It has two files. One where the cab was almost silent as per reality. And one that includes motor sounds and some altered running sounds.
     
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  23. cwf.green

    cwf.green Well-Known Member

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    I vehemently disagree. If the real vehicle sounds like a croaking frog, then I want the TSW vehicle to sound like a croaking frog ;)
     
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  24. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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  25. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

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    I just want to add that I'm super excited for the new sounds. To me, the the real-life sounds are by far my most favourite characteristic of the electrostar family. I can see myself virtual trainspotting on the upcoming route with the volume up loud! :D
     
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  26. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

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    Just to add a touch of optimism, I too am really looking forward to the new sounds. I actually don't think the existing sounds are awful, the only real problem I have with them is the overly loud whir of the air con, which in my experience of Electrostars isn't as loud.

    I love the TSW community. They spend months wishing for updated AP sounds for the 377/387 and when it's confirmed they're getting just that they treat it with skepticism.
     
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  27. Trainiac

    Trainiac Well-Known Member

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    In an ideal world, I’d much rather see DTG get the sounds of trains right without relying on other developers for once. And that means completely new sound sets for every unique train and not sounds like throttle handles or track joint sounds that have been taken from other existing trains like the 395 for example. AP might not get everything 100% accurate but it a lot better than what I believe DTG has to offer.
     
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  28. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    They did with the ACS-64, and Caltrain.
     
  29. Trainiac

    Trainiac Well-Known Member

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    That's just a few out of the many trains they've had assistance with, those were examples of how to produce good sound, it's a shame it isn't the case with many other trains.
     
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  30. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    The thought of new sounds is welcome indeed. Excited to hear what they sound like on Friday, when BML, the most highly anticipated TSW 2 route (ever), is shown for the first time. High hopes for this one. High hopes.
     
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  31. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Even if the raw sound recordings are good, it's in the mixing where the rubber hits the road.
     
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  32. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Exactly this. Even the original Electrostar sounds, which were also by AP, weren’t bad. It was the mixing which was bad which is what made it sound off when it could’ve been better.
     
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  33. When I said that the class 377 sounds were unrealistic in TSW2 at the beginning, I never brought up the cab, since as I said, I haven't been in a 377 cab. You brought up that the cab sounds were quite good, which I never contradicted, since again, I wasn't talking about cab sounds.

    Then ,I brought up the ICE 3 to give an example of a train where motor sounds sound the same inside and outside the cab, except for the volume, as these motor sounds can be quieter in the cab, but never totally different. Using this information, and many cab rides, I extrapolated that most electric trains (which includes electrostars) have the same motor sounds outside and inside of the cab, again, regardless of volume. For this reason, I believe that AP's 377 sounds are not totally realistic, as motor sounds in cab and outside the cab are unrealistic.

    I think this is really simple so I will not carry on further with this discussion, I hope you have understood my point, and if not, you may read my posts again as many times as necessary.
     

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