London Underground: Jubilee And Victoria Lines (as One Whole Route)

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by UnlimitedMagic, Sep 11, 2021.

  1. UnlimitedMagic

    UnlimitedMagic Well-Known Member

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    The Jubilee and Victoria lines are Underground Deep tube lines. They intersect at Green Park Station where there is a roughly minute and a half walk between the platforms. First we'll talk about the Jubilee line.

    Jubilee line

    upload_2021-9-11_14-28-44.png
    The Jubilee line is 36.2 miles long and has 27 Stations. The rolling stock is the 1996 stock train. The underground section is between Swiss cottage and North Greenwich. The line uses ATO operation but manual operation is still feasible.

    Services
    • Peak services at 30 tph in the core section between Stratford and West Hampstead:
      • 18 tph Stratford – Stanmore
      • 4 tph Stratford – West Hampstead
      • 4 tph Stratford – Willesden Green
      • 4 tph Stratford – Wembley Park
      • Some peak services originate or terminate at West Ham or Neasden
    • Off-Peak services at 24 tph in the core section between Stratford and Willesden Green:
      • 16 tph Stratford – Stanmore
      • 4 tph Stratford – Willesden Green
      • 4 tph Stratford – Wembley Park
    1996 stock
    upload_2021-9-11_14-33-8.png
    The 1996 stock entered service on 24 December 1997 and had its refurbishment between 2017 and 2019 the train uses ATO operation but drivers are also encouraged to use Manual operation to get a feel of driving the train. The 1996 stock is the only route that runs on the Jubilee line. The Maximum speed of the 1996 stock is 62mph.

    Victoria line
    upload_2021-9-11_14-41-7.png

    The Victoria line is an Underground Deep tube line which runs from Brixton in South London to Walthamstow Central in North East London. The line has 16 stations and is 13 miles long. The rolling stock is the 2009 stock. The lines only depot is Northumberland Park. While the whole line is Underground the Jubilee line will compensate for that since it has surface stations.

    Services

    The Victoria line has 36 trains per hour at peak times. The line is also known for its fast speeds due to it having fewer stations.

    2009 stock

    upload_2021-9-11_14-53-16.png

    The 2009 stock is a tube stock which runs on the Victoria line. The train is 8 cars long and has a maximum speed of 50 mph. The train runs on ATO but can also be used manually. With ATO the driver presses a pair of "start" buttons and the train would drive at a safe speed to the next stop when it would be clear. At any point the driver could switch to manual if ATO fails.


    In summary these routes would be good to have a fast paced experience unlike the Bakerloo line which had fairly slow speeds. And the platform edge doors on the Jubilee line would highlight the route.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2021
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  2. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Excellent idea and if you are wondering how automatic train operations going to work think of it as HMA S-Bahn LZB where you have another train right behind you after yours to increase line frequency. These routes provide a transfer to Base game route Bakerloo Line at Baker Street and Oxford Circus
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2021
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  3. fabdiva

    fabdiva Well-Known Member

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    You'd better be good at stopping on the 90s section of the Jubilee - yo need to line up with the doors
     
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  4. UnlimitedMagic

    UnlimitedMagic Well-Known Member

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    I think there are those green stop markers
     
  5. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    You mean platform screen doors which this line features.
     
  6. paintbrushguy

    paintbrushguy Active Member

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    I the Jubilee line has potential, however not the Vic, as it is fully automatic and has never been manual. The Jubilee line, however, could be set pre-2011 when it was manual, or even pre 1999 if PEDs are too much of a challenge and have the route terminate at Charing Cross.
     
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  7. Jonne1184

    Jonne1184 Member

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    As much as I like the Underground, I do not get the appeal of ATO in TSW. Even more so in a tunnel. The Bakerloo line is fun due to its rather old stock and manual operation. A Jubilee Line set in the past could be interesting, modern Jubilee or Victoria... not so much.
     
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  8. UnlimitedMagic

    UnlimitedMagic Well-Known Member

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    The Jubilee and Victoria can both be used manually. If you read my post you’ll see
     
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  9. UnlimitedMagic

    UnlimitedMagic Well-Known Member

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    Both trains have a manual mode. And the drivers are encouraged to use it. I mentioned it in the post
     
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  10. Jonne1184

    Jonne1184 Member

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    From: http://www.trainweb.org/tubeprune/Victoria Line ATO.htm

    Sounds quite different.
     
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  11. Rybnicki

    Rybnicki Active Member

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    How often does the manual operation happen? As I understand TfL ultimately want driverless trains.
     
  12. fabdiva

    fabdiva Well-Known Member

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    The Central I believe only permits manual driving at the extremities during evenings and weekends, all other times and over the core Leytonstone-North Acton it's in Automatic only.

    ATO is used to smooth out the variable driving styles, with trains running to the same Automatic 'driving style' the gaps between trains can be reduced which is how they've managed to squeeze additional services into the timetable (up to every 90 seconds on the Victoria Line)

    TfL have done the sums and concluded going Driverless* isn't worth the cost (plus the union fight they'd have), however the UK National Government has been trying to make TfL's funding conditional on a Driverless rollout for Political Grounds

    *On Existing lines - I'm pretty sure a ground up build would be full ATO (Crossrail has through running onto National Rail lines so would need drivers anyway
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2021
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  13. paintbrushguy

    paintbrushguy Active Member

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    Drivers aren’t encouraged to drive manually anymore, it’s not feasible to operate 36tph manually and also it’s not possible for a human to operate with moving block
     
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  14. trainsimgaming1001

    trainsimgaming1001 Well-Known Member

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    I think if the Jubilee Line happened, Dovetail would have to skip out on PED. It would be too hard to use without ATO, though I could imagine something cool where you operate manually until Green Park, switch to Automatic until North Greenwich, then switch back on the last leg to stratford.
     
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  15. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Good idea and that should allow perfect stops on the Platform Screen Doors which this route is equipped with. If a special timetable were to be used to Green Park pre-1999 Bakerloo Line can layer 1972 Stock to Jubliee Line via a Track connection at Baker Street. Jubilee Line was opened in 1979
     
  16. trainsimgaming1001

    trainsimgaming1001 Well-Known Member

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    If this happened, the current 1972 Stock we have would never be layed for these reasons:
    1. It has Bakerloo 2020 Carriage Maps
    2. It does not have Jubilee -1999 Carriage Maps
    3. Its in a Modern 2020 Livery that never operated on the Jubilee Line in the brief spell that it had on it
    4. People would moan if the JLE was not featured. Just feature it in 1999-ish when both Charing Cross and JLE were open
     
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  17. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for telling me about this looks like it's going to be stand alone unless DTG kept up with TFL plans for Jubilee Line
     
  18. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    I personally would rather we didn't get anymore Deep-Level Tube lines for a good while.

    Whilst my only real life experience of the Tube is the Jubilee Line, I don't think that - especially after Bakerloo - we need one, and BKL wasn't the best thing in TSW, was it...

    Also, why would the Victoria & Jubilee be put together just because they interchange at a singular station, on different tracks and platforms as well.

    That's a strange logic.

    If I were to put the Jubilee with another route it would be the Metropolitan, as that one makes a bit of sense, as they run together for a decent distance.
     

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