On the Bakerloo line, the speed limit signs are mostly on the right so that even at low-ish speeds, by the time I've clocked one approaching it's gone before I've had a chance to read it! Is that really how they are? If so, why? Wouldn't they be better on the left following the usual UK convention? Or am I missing some clever Underground driver's trick to reading them?
The way it works irl is they signage will be placed on the side the driver will see first the same as signals. So if the curve is curving left the sign will be placed on the right as you will see the right wall first and vice versa for a curve to tbe right.
And I think if you're a driver and ride the line up and down many times a day, week for week, you'll just know the limits.
In reality the signs are reflective and you can see them from a mile away, something not reflected in TSW. Another thing is that on a real tube train you can just lean forward to see out of the window better, thankfully this can be done by using the arrow keys to cycle the camera, hope this helps.
Thanks all, I knew there had to be a logical explanation. I'll have to work harder on my route learning
Infact the speedboard signs are "just" reminder for the drivers memory. As for every uk rail route section, a driver has to know / memorize every speed limit, signal and of course breaking points. There is a series of bakerloo route learning videos on youtube. https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/community-tips-tricks.43297/page-2
You can also use my speed charts and safe a lot of time. Close the doors 5 seconds prior the passenger boarding tasks ends, and you can finish the services almost on time direction Elefant Castle, and with a lost of 3-4mins in direction Harrow & Wealdstone. I created them for TSW because cant memory 30 routes without forgetting the stuff on the first one . Bakerloo was always fun to me with the mods (Enhancement, Front door mod + The tube stock sound mod). So i enjoyed to do 2-3 runs in a session with just making a changeover and drive back. To the chart: Shunting Signals: The "Triangle with 2 Reds" Main Signal: Red Signal Symbol Distant Signal: Yellow Signal Symbol Speed Controlled Signal: Green Signal Symbol Direction Indicator: Any Colour Signal Symbol + Direction Indicator Approach Control Signals: Marked on Track Maps
I must admit I've been caught out a few times with the speed limit boards and not paying attention. It's a good thing I'm not a real life Driver lol
I once went for a job on the London Underground, but failed the VR test. Doing 80mph round the bend at Trafalgar Square I went through the wall and ended up at Piccadilly Circus. The training instructor was not too impressed.
While I agree that the signs wouldn't have a reflection range of a mile, I am intrigued: From how far away can you see the signs? Would it be similar to Kassel-Wurzburg?
Tbh route knowledge plays a vital part of it. In tunnel sections they speed boards are on rectangle white reflect boards with the speed limit in black letters. You also have “light boxes” which are mounted to tunnel walls and have the speed limit cut out on a plate so when the light box is lit up you can see the speed limit. They certainly do not light up like reflective also as the bakerloo stock uses non LED lights and just your standard bulb they do not light up that far ahead in front of you.
For clarity those white boards on the right hand side of the tunnel wall are the speed limit boards, clearly visible to the human eye.
That is interesting, but I would like to know how far ahead of you they can be seen. Do you think the in-game representation is realistic? Also, does the Bakerloo Line have those light boxes you speak of, or have DTG simply failed to include them? I am not sure the headlights on that train were the normal headlights found on the Bakerloo Line. Was there a torch in the cab lighting the tunnels ahead? Do you remember if the train you went on had the experimental super bright lights fitted?
Nope nothing special about the train, those are the standard headlights. One funny thing about these trains is that the brightness of the headlights increases and decreases depending on which part of the line you're on and the traction current available, sometimes you go over points or a section gap and the headlights dim, then brighten up again. Other times you're riding along and the headlights get so bright it looks like the bulbs will explode, then they dim back to normal.
The in game-representation isn't realistic at all, it looks like there's some sort of mystical black fog obscuring your view in TSW, in reality you can usually see ahead up until the next bend in the tracks. And yes, some speed boards have lamps which illuminate them, these aren't included in TSW, nor are the emergency tunnel lights which turn on along the route when traction current is lost.
The standard electrification is 630V DC throughout the LU owned sections, although on the National Rail Sections the current is higher at 750V. The reason for the changes in current as mentioned is probably due to the distance of substations, some sections may struggle providing power to a high number of trains in one area. Also tube trains use current shoes, so if one part of the train is 'gapped' say over some points, then the train will receive less power. From the tubeprune website - 'Bakerloo Line Traction Current Sections Elephant & Castle to Embankment Embankment to Oxford Circus Oxford Circus to Baker Street Baker Street to Kilburn Park Kilburn Park to Queens Park' http://www.trainweb.org/tubeprune/tc diagram.gif
The website also mentions some other funny stories - 'Sometimes, too many trains in a section will cause current to go off. The more current drawn in a section, the more the traction current voltage drops. As a consequence, some equipment on a train may also cut, out MGs/MAs for example. Some black spots where this happens are between South Wimbledon and Morden (Northern), Russell Square and Holloway Road and Wood Green to Southgate, (Piccadilly Line) and Baker Street to Finchley Road (Met.). A favourite for South Wimbledon to Morden in 1938 Stock days was when trains were queuing up to get into Morden and it was nothing unusual to put the handle into motoring and find the tunnel lights come on, put it back to off and the lights go out.' And - 'Getting Gapped One of the most embarrassing incident to happen to a driver is to get his train "gapped". This happens when the train stops without any of its current collection shoes connected to the current rails. The only two ways out of the problem is either to push the train onto the nearest current rails or to make use of long cables (called gap leads) which can be used to connect a socket on the train to shoes at the other ends of the leads which are then placed on the rails. Both procedures will cause a long delay and leave the driver with a lot of explaining to do.'
Thank you Josh - very insightful! Last question: In the top of your image there is a reflection of a light in the window - what is this? I am also interested in what 390001 has to say.
No problem. If you mean the yellow light in the top right corner then I believe it's either a reflection of the train number box, destination board light, or any of the other train electronics in the cab. Strange because as you can see from the image the cab itself is quite dark, yet there is a reflection of whatever that is on the window screen... it might also just be my phone camera picking something up I couldn't see with my own eyes. As for what https://forums.dovetailgames.com/members/390001.5019/ has to say I'm interested to hear about his experiences on the Bakerloo Line too.
I've just had a look in the sim, and I believe the yellow light visible in the picture was either one of the bits of equipment circled, seeing as they correspond to the location and colour of the light that was reflected in the image. On a real 1972 Stock train the 'Heat & Vent On' indicator and 'Cab Air Con Power Supply On' indicator light up yellow.
The 72 Tubestock is actually very well modeled in terms of features, even the brake test works, also traction cut off, in addition even they modeled the westinghouse brake. Thats why its for me a NoGo to break the mod capability of a new TSW iteration, looks like they made it itenationally. 4 Mods which i used to make bakerloo superb are not working anymore.
Which mods were you using? Currently I'm using the 1972 Stock sound mod, but on TSW3 I was using the unlocked forward door mod and the 1972 Stock Mark 1 reskin, both of which don't work on TSW4 sadly.
I used the 72 sound mod from itsya165, the cabdoor enabler, 72mk2 aluminium visuals upgrade, and the bakerloo enhancement pack. TSW is currently uninstalled entirely so im not up to reinstall this anytime soon...
Yeah those are pretty much standard for BKL, I uninstalled the Bakerloo Enhancement pack though because I felt it didn't offer enough changes that I would've liked to see, like adding the stopping boards and the correct station tiling at Piccadilly Circus. It also reskins the newspapers to reference the coronavirus lockdown and that was what made me uninstall the mod, I didn't want to be reminded of such a bad time when I'm trying to enjoy myself in the sim.
The head lights do not dim depending on where you are they “dim” over traction current gaps when the aux drops out. also I never said they are not visible so please refrain from posting false claims. What’s clear to see is they are not visible from miles away like you claimed. I would also add in your picture that you are not a tube driver for clarity and you took that picture with consent. Unauthorised people are not allowed in the cabs so I hope you had reason to be in the cab as well as permission
the leads are called rail gap jumper leads and it is not the driver who would connect them. there are also other reasons a train could need a push out procedure. Gapping a train a driver would not have a lot of explaining to do. your post about to many trains in section affecting current is wrong as well that’s why they have substations to many trains won’t affect traction current.
Surely that just backs up what I said about how they dim... depending on where you are, like if you are going over a traction current gap. Anyways, can see them 'from a mile away' was more of a figure of speech, I don't think there is anywhere on the tube where tracks run in completely straight line tunnels for a mile, you'd likely encounter a bend in the route that would break your line of sight first. Also I wasn't posting false claims, I was giving evidence to show that the Underground does indeed have reflective speed signage in some places. Lastly, I know that fact very well, I come from a family with a heavy railway background and I'm hoping to start the job myself in the next few years, the cab ride was arranged prior with permission.
I wouldn't be surprised if the procedures have changed now from when that article was written, those quotes were taken from the http://www.trainweb.org/tubeprune/ website.
Thanks for the heads up I'm already aware of that, I should've clarified that I was hoping to start in an apprenticeship role, not as a Train Operator.
Thank you. I now understand that the speed limit boards on the TSW recreation of the Bakerloo Line are incorrect, and that the headlights are also too dim. In my personal experience as a passenger in real life, the in-game headlights appeared to be perfect - and I have never seen lights as bright as those in the picture on any underground stock - let alone the Bakerloo line, but nevermind.
