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Long Island Rail Road Signal Issues

Discussion in 'Known Issues & Bug Reports' started by cActUsjUiCe, Nov 26, 2018.

  1. cActUsjUiCe

    cActUsjUiCe Well-Known Member

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    ***THIS BUG REPORT WILL BE GRADUALLY EXPANDED UPON! IT IS NOT IN A FINAL STATE! PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO THIS THREAD UNLESS YOU HAVE A SIGNAL ISSUE TO REPORT! I'D LIKE TO KEEP THIS THREAD AS TIDY AS POSSIBLE!***

    These signal issues apply to Build 466 on the Public branch. They may or may not apply to other builds. I will not be reviewing the services that take you into and out of yards nor will I be reviewing trains to and from Belmont Park.


    I will organize the issues by the area of the route to which they apply. I am splitting things up by direction of travel so you can easily follow along if playing a service or scenario in game.

    EASTBOUND
    1. Zone A (New York Penn Station - East limits Harold interlocking)
    2. Main Line (East limits Harold interlocking - Jamaica)
    3. Main Line (Jamaica - Hicksville)
    4. Atlantic Branch (Atlantic Terminal - Jamaica)
    5. Hempstead Branch (Floral Park - Hempstead)
    WESTBOUND
    1. Main Line (Hicksville - Jamaica)
    2. Main Line (Jamaica - East limits Harold interlocking)
    3. Zone A (East limits Harold interlocking - New York Penn Station)
    4. Atlantic Branch (Jamaica - Atlantic Terminal)
    5. Hempstead Branch (Hempstead - Floral Park)
    MAPS
    The below maps are simply for your convenience so you know which area of the route is being discussed.

    Zone A (New York Penn Station - East limits of Harold interlocking)
    Map_ZoneA.PNG

    Main Line (East limits Harold interlocking - Jamaica)
    Map_HaroldtoJamaica.PNG

    Main Line (Jamaica - Hicksville)
    Map_JamaicatoHicksville.PNG

    Atlantic Branch (Atlantic Terminal - Jamaica)

    Map_ATLtoJamaica.PNG

    Hempstead Branch (Floral Park - Hempstead)
    Map_FloralParktoHempstead.PNG
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2018
  2. cActUsjUiCe

    cActUsjUiCe Well-Known Member

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    ZONE A (Eastbound)

    PROBLEM: Switching without warning & missing signal at F interlocking

    DESCRIPTION:
    As you leave East River Tunnels Line #4 and enter F interlocking, you switch tracks without warning. The signals are all displaying Clear, which should not be the case. The signal controlling eastbound movements through F interlocking on Line 4 is completely missing. You’ll approach the crossover and see no signal on the wayside.

    RESOLUTION: This can be resolved by making the last signal before exiting the tunnel display Approach Limited (solid yellow over flashing green). Have the cab signal indicator drop to 40MPH at this signal. Place signal 712E in the position indicated by the below photo. The details for the signal are included in the tooltip. Have this signal display Limited Clear (solid red over flashing green) and enforce 40MPH on the cab signal indicator. That’s it. Now players will be properly slowed down before switching tracks. The proper speeds will be enforced approaching and during the diverging movement.

    APPLICABLE SERVICES/SCENARIOS: [2018] New York Penn - Ronkonkoma (as well as other services that route you eastbound out of Line #4)

    [2018] 712E Missing Signal.PNG

    PROBLEM: Switching tracks at the east end of Harold shows proper signal aspects, but the proper speeds are not enforced on the Cab Signal Indicator.


    [2018] Medium Clear at 60MPH.png
    Approaching a Medium Clear signal at Harold interlocking with a 60 lamp illuminated on the cab signals. This isn't correct.


    DESCRIPTION: As you approach the east end of Harold interlocking, you’ll pass a signal displaying Approach Medium (solid yellow over solid green). It will keep the cab signal indicator at 60MPH. When you reach the next signal (which is displaying Medium Clear, solid horizontal over solid vertical) the cab signal indicator immediately drops to 40MPH. Upon reaching the crossover, the track speed limit drops to 30MPH.

    RESOLUTION: This can be resolved by having the Approach Medium signal enforce the speed of the diverging movement (I believe this is a 40MPH movement). Then you’re guaranteed to be going the proper speed upon reaching the Medium Clear signal. Additionally, change the track speed of the crossover to match the signal speed (if the signals say you can switch at 40, make the track speed 40). Right now, you’ll charge into the Medium Clear signal at 60MPH which results in violently switching tracks.

    APPLICABLE SERVICES/SCENARIOS: [2018] New York Penn - Ronkonkoma (as well as other services that route you eastbound out of Line #4)

    There are many situations similar to this one where the signals before a crossover do not properly downgrade the speed on the cab signal indicator.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2018
  3. cActUsjUiCe

    cActUsjUiCe Well-Known Member

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    ZONE A (Eastbound)

    PROBLEM: Improper signal progression for diverging movement at Harold interlocking

    DESCRIPTION:
    You are on Line #3 as you leave the East River Tunnels and enter F interlocking. The second signal you encounter (a two-tier tri-light signal) is displaying a Clear aspect (solid green over solid red). The next signal at Harold interlocking (also a two-tier tri-light signal mounted on a cantilever signal bridge) is displaying a Medium Clear aspect (solid red over solid green). This is not the proper signal progression when approaching a Medium Clear signal. The signal at F interlocking (signal 734E) is displaying the wrong aspect, which in turn makes the cab signal indicator display the wrong speed, which in turn makes the player approach Harold interlocking much faster than they should be.

    734E Signal Location and Details.PNG
    Location and details of the 734E signal at F interlocking.

    734E Signal Incorrect Aspect.jpg
    Clear signal at F interlocking. A Medium Clear signal is ahead at Harold interlocking. This signal should be displaying Approach Medium.

    RESOLUTION: This can be resolved by making the signal at F interlocking (signal 734E) display Approach Medium and enforce a speed of 40MPH on the cab signal indicator. The Medium Clear signal at Harold already is enforcing a signal speed of 40MPH, which is correct for that section of the interlocking.

    APPLICABLE SERVICES/SCENARIOS: [2032] New York Penn - Ronkonkoma, [738] New York Penn - Hempstead, (as well as other services that route you eastbound out of Line #3)

    NOTES: This happens in other situations but the only difference is that the signal at Harold interlocking is displaying Limited Clear (solid red over flashing green) instead. In this case, the signal at F interlocking should display Approach Limited (solid yellow over flashing green). Both signals should enforce 40MPH on the cab signal indicator.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2018
  4. cActUsjUiCe

    cActUsjUiCe Well-Known Member

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    I feel it necessary to explain something when it comes to American signalling. DTG should already know this since they already did this EXACT SAME AREA in the Northeast Corridor route.

    If the next signal is going to be Medium Clear, the previous signal should be Approach Medium. Both signals should show a speed on the cab signal indicator that MATCHES the speed that the train will be switching tracks. For example, if the train will be switching tracks at 30MPH ahead, both the Approach Medium and Medium Clear signals should enforce 30MPH on the cab signal indicator.

    If the next signal is going to be Limited Clear, the previous signal should be Approach Limited. Both signals should show a speed on the cab signal indicator that MATCHES the speed that the train will be switching tracks. For example, if the train will be switching tracks at 40MPH ahead, both the Approach Limited and Limited Clear signals should enforce 40MPH on the cab signal indicator.

    Of course there are many other signal progressions, but these seem to be the biggest offenders so far.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2018
  5. cActUsjUiCe

    cActUsjUiCe Well-Known Member

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    ZONE A (Eastbound)

    PROBLEM: New York Penn signals providing wrong cab signal speed

    DESCRIPTION:
    Certain Clear signal aspects within the New York Penn Station area will upgrade your cab signal indicator to 60MPH.

    RESOLUTION: This can be resolved by ensuring ALL signal aspects within New York Penn Station downgrade and keep your cab signal indicator at 15MPH. All signals in New York Penn Station are designed to ensure the lowest cab signal indication at all times. This is for safety reasons.

    APPLICABLE SERVICES/SCENARIOS: Maintenance Maneuver Scenario, Other services/scenarios that terminate in New York Penn Station

    Maintenance Manuever NYP 60MPH Cabs.jpg
     
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  6. Jsunflyguy

    Jsunflyguy New Member

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    Glad someone is giving this the attention it needs. I know a similar issue was raised regarding the NORAC aspect sequence. Some other ones are Hempstead; The Westward home signal goes completely dark, I suspect this is because it is trying to display "Clear" but since the signal is Aspect Limited nothing is displayed.
     

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  7. Jsunflyguy

    Jsunflyguy New Member

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    This one on the LIC scenario looking at the track to the left, immediately adjacent to mine, we see diagonal over flashing diagonal. Such an aspect does not exist, I assume this was supposed to be horizontal over flashing diagonal for "medium approach" although this signal doesn't control a diverging movement so it wouldn't be proper in this instance.
     

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  8. Jsunflyguy

    Jsunflyguy New Member

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    This is the home signal Eastbound on the approach into Jamaica, the home signal immediately controlling the approach into the station always has all the lower head bulbs falsely illuminated creating an illegal aspect, as a note: All signals over switches at Jamaica should display some form of slow speed signal due to the number of double slip switches.

    Additionally the LIRR with two exceptions, one of which doesn't exist on the territory covered, does not use flashing aspects for regular block signalling. One exception is Flashing yellow on a low home color light signal which you can see taking the Belmont Special back to Penn. The other is Stop and Proceed on newly installed colour light signals between Speonk and Montauk. Out side those two relatively rare occurrences, Flashing Aspects on the LIRR are primarily for degraded operations on trains where the Cab Signals have failed.

    Signals like Medium Approach and Limited clear do not exist in Zone C (LIRR Territory), only in Zone A (Amtrak Territory between Penn and Harold).
     

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  9. hungrymammal329

    hungrymammal329 New Member

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    What is the yellow over double white signal mean in atlantic terminal
     
  10. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    That’s an incorrect aspect. But go 5 mph at it.
     
  11. hungrymammal329

    hungrymammal329 New Member

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    hopefully dovetail fixes those issues , i guess in the meantime ill drive at reduced speeds in those areas.
     

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