Lzb On Rapid Transit

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by Choo choo mofos, Mar 24, 2021.

  1. Choo choo mofos

    Choo choo mofos Member

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    Hello everyone.

    I heard from the DTG stream yesterday that LZB will not fitted on Rapid Transit (but the BR 182 will), since it is not there in real life. See the exact timestamp 19:06



    I was wondering where they got this info from? Because it seems that there is a section of the line, between Lepizig-Messe and Bitterfeld, that is apparently equipped with LZB and good for speeds up to 200km/h.

    It took me 5 minutes to figure that out, by browsing Openrailwaymap and checking out a cab ride on Youtube and see that there were LZB cables lying around on the ground.
    It would be a shame to have all of this work done on Rapid Transit done only to have an important piece left out of the fixes. What do the people think?
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2021
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  2. Ravi

    Ravi Active Member

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    The problem is it’s a really old route and DTG is making updates that doesn’t break their bank. At the end of the day they need to make money as a company as well. It’s one of their first routes when they made it so it’s a bit dated at this point.
     
  3. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Also: that section of track may have LZB today- but did it have it when RT is set (sometime around 2014-15?) Sort of like the OHEP lines in GWE......
     
  4. doublefine7

    doublefine7 Well-Known Member

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    The ingame featured route has LZB on its tracks. And in the time it is set LZB was already there and under regular usage by every train ready to use LZB, so RT should feature LZB natively.
     
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  5. Choo choo mofos

    Choo choo mofos Member

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    LZB has been there for 15 years - since 2006.
    https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahnstrecke_Trebnitz–Leipzig

    To avoid this, the line coming from Berlin between Bitterfeld and Rackwitz was equipped with a line train control system including CIR-ELKE II (type LZB L72 CE II ) in 2005 and 2006 . Only the continuous main tracks and the connections between them are provided with line conductors. The route between Bitterfeld and Rackwitz has been open at 200 km / h since May 28, 2006.
     
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  6. Choo choo mofos

    Choo choo mofos Member

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    That's not the point here.

    Adam said on stream that since LZB is not present on the real tracks, it will not be added to the route - when a 5 minutes google search proves that there is LZB for about 23 km between Leipzig and Bitterfeld.

    I felt like it would be a good idea to give a heads up to existing users and potential buyers about this particular occurence.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2021
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  7. Richard CZE

    Richard CZE Well-Known Member

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    On DLC RT, LZB is from the beginning. The cable lying between the rails is clearly visible.
     
  8. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    Apart from that, isn't the train limited to 160 kmh anyway since it pulls Dostos? So without lzb you can go 200, but with lzb would it have to limit the train to 160 automatically?
     
  9. doublefine7

    doublefine7 Well-Known Member

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    LZB is not about the speed only, it is also used to get a higher frequency of trains onto the track. So since the safety system blocks are not signal bound but cab bound, you can put more trains on the track in a higher frequency. So the Speed limit reasoning is pure nonsense.
     
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  10. Tom Fresco

    Tom Fresco Well-Known Member

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    Yes, even though with LZB, Trains are allowed to go faster than 160, it is also used to increase capacity and to make life easier for the driver. The 185 has LZB too irl, althogh going barely over 100/120 with Freight, the S Bahn Munic has LZB and definetly not because then the trains can run at 200km/h!!
    Even If the top speed of a loco would be 80, it could have LZB. (Some Underground Trains/Metros use LZB as well....
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2021
  11. Richard CZE

    Richard CZE Well-Known Member

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    Freight trains also run under LZB. The maximum speed, weight (braking percentage) and length of the train are entered.The LZB system is able to calculate the braking curve. The speed is determined by the car with the lowest maximum speed. The train is then able to respond to the signals at the track.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2021
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  12. Choo choo mofos

    Choo choo mofos Member

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    Adam also mentions in the stream that since Dostos are not supposed to go over 160 km/h, they won't be fitted with LZB in TSW.
    Is that the case in reality?
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2021
  13. Jo_Kim

    Jo_Kim Well-Known Member

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    Just to clarify: Yes the line is equipped with LZB and has a line speed of 200km/h but you would never reach this speed with the dedicated rolling stock for this route.
    In general local services are only allowed to drive 160km/h in Germany. There is one exception between München and Nürnberg where a Regialexpress drives up to 200km/h.
    The real advantages of LZB would therefore be only used by layered content.
     
  14. doublefine7

    doublefine7 Well-Known Member

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  15. TrainSim-Adam

    TrainSim-Adam Staff Member

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    Hiya,
    Thanks for the feedback on this topic. I have indeed received correction that LZB is present on this route in reality, between Leipzig-Messe and Bitterfeld. I am working with our beta team on what the upgrade would need to be for the route, I'm not promising anything for the current work package though.

    Also to confirm, it is still our understanding/observations that there is no LZB functionality in the cab of a DBpbzfa 766.2 vehicle.

    I'll keep an eye on this discussion thread though.
    Cheers
     
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  16. Choo choo mofos

    Choo choo mofos Member

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    Thank you Adam for your quick answer and your acknowledgment. That is appreciated :)
     
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  17. doublefine7

    doublefine7 Well-Known Member

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    Hey TrainSim-Adam I can confirm that the 766.2 does not have LZB fitted in real life. So the ingame dosto cab cars are realistic. If you need reference for future Dosto Cab cars, feel free to have a look at the list provided in my last post :)
     
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  18. Jo_Kim

    Jo_Kim Well-Known Member

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    Small note on that: It is pretty easy to find out if a cab has LZB or not (if correctly modelled). When LZB is active there is a blue indicator light illuminated with the letter "Ü" in it. The indicator must be an independent light and can't be integrated into a screen or other display in the cab. So if this indicator is missing it is easy to tell that this cab does not have LZB installed.

    Example: ICE 4 cab. The Ü indicator is cleary separated from the center screen.
    [​IMG]
     
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  19. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    You taking the time to gather this information from the forums and exploring the possibility to add it either now or in the future are already highly appreciated! :)
     
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  20. Task

    Task Well-Known Member

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    Was there anything on LZB for the MSB locos like the 146.2 and the 185.2? Those are the two that would benefit the most from LZB as they are driving on SKA.
     
  21. Jo_Kim

    Jo_Kim Well-Known Member

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    Both of these have LZB. If you look on the back wall of the cab you can already find the isolation switch for the LZB, but it is not implemented yet.
     
  22. Tom Fresco

    Tom Fresco Well-Known Member

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    And a short LZB Section in HMA before changing to the regional lines. Would be great to see and is maybe happening because the 182 got it already so they know how to do it
     
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  23. Task

    Task Well-Known Member

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    Ah I might have formulated my post badly. Yeah, I know they have it in real life. The question was if it would come to the game as I didn't recall Adam saying anything about the both locos getting LZB in the last stream. Maybe only the 182 gets LZB as it is also needed for Hamburg - Lübeck.
     
  24. Richard CZE

    Richard CZE Well-Known Member

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    If it were decided to add to the RT layer with ICE, or another train running at a higher speed above 160km / h, then LZB would be needed. This would have to be redesigned 24h mode. All slower trains would have to cross the siding and clear the track for a fast train.
     
  25. Choo choo mofos

    Choo choo mofos Member

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    Adam said that they were looking into fitting LZB into these locos. I think he said that during the roadmap stream 2 weeks back.

    Edit: found the exact timestamp

     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2021
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  26. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    It's worth keeping in mind not only whether a given route has LZB installed, but also whether a particular track has it. Frequently, the cables are only laid on the two tracks of the Schnellfahrstrecke itself, not the regional/S-Bahn/freight tracks on the other side.
     
  27. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    And the timestamp would be...?
     
  28. Choo choo mofos

    Choo choo mofos Member

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    24:20. Just click on the thumbnail, it is already set up ;)
     
  29. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    FYI the timestamps don't carry over when you put the videos in this forum. it should, but it doesn't...
     
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  30. nick.scholten

    nick.scholten New Member

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    It didn't work for me when I clicked, it started a the beginning for some reason.
     
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  31. Tom Fresco

    Tom Fresco Well-Known Member

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    In Munic its the other way around until Pasing, but yes, LZB ist normally used on High Speed lines but can be found on normal Mainlines and S Bahn Lines (Munic and i think somewhere else too) as well, so it doesn't mean that every train driving under LZB Control is an ICE/IC, Regional and Freight services use it as well, even when they're going slower than 160
     
  32. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that's quite true: but, again, only if they are on the LZB -equipped track. Munchen is unusual in that they installed it on the S-Bahn tracks as well; ordinarily that's not done. Regios and freight can make use of LZB- but in most places it's only when they've been routed onto the express track because there's no IC/ICE train using it.

    No question that LZB for everything increases efficiency, because the dispatcher can pack more trains into the same space; and it's easier on the drivers (even if they have to drive a non-AFB train manually), because it still tells them what speed to drive and when to brake, so that "surfing the yellows" isn't a guessing game and they can avoid unnecessary stops for red aspects.
     

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