Main-weser-bahn: Frankfurt Hbf - Marburg (lahn) In The '90s. Vintage Interregio & S-bahn

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by jolojonasgames, Apr 27, 2021.

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  1. Yes

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    84.2%
  2. Maybe, if it's on sale

    4 vote(s)
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  3. No, I prefer other things.

    5 vote(s)
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  1. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Hi all, today I'm suggesting a route that comes with one of my favourite service types: the InterRegio. This route would be best if it comes after the Saalebahn in the '90s I suggested, as this would allow this route to have layers (most prominently the BR 103 on IR services, and the BR 155 hauling freight) from that route.

    Contents

    • The route
      • General description
      • Services
    • Rolling stock
      • What should come with the route?
        • BR 420
        • BR 111 with InterRegio coaches
        • BR 112 with InterRegio coaches
      • DLC
        • BR 110 'bügelfalte' with n-Wagen
        • BR 140
        • BR 151
      • Layering (from my Saalebahn in the '90s suggestion)
    • Final Words
    • Pictures

    The route
    [​IMG]


    General description
    The route I'm proposing runs from Marburg (Lahn) to Frankfurt Hbf, with S-bahn services continuing via the underground Citytunnel to Frankfurt Süd, this brings the length too just around 100 km, right at the edge of TSWs current limitations. I chose for this route because it offers a vintage S-bahn experience around Frankfurt, though the main reason is the fact that is saw many InterRegio services.

    From Marburg (Lahn), the route takes us along the river Lahn through the beautiful countryside of Hessen to Gießen. At Gießen our route divergers from the Lahn to the south, into the first suburbs of Frankfurt am Main. As the buildings get denser we pick up the S6 line at Friedberg (Hess). From Friedberg (Hess) we run through Bad Vilbel and enter the Frankfurt municipal area at Frankfurt-Berkersheim. At Frankfurt West we join other railway lines for the last few kilometres to Frankfurt Hbf, where the InterRegio services will terminate. The S6 services will dive into the CityTunnel, built in 1978, just before Frankfurt Hbf, stopping at the underground platforms there. After the subterranean stop at Frankfurt Hbf, the S-bahn continues for another 4 km, stopping multiple times, before crossing below the Main river and reemerging at Frankfurt Süd, which is S6's other terminus station.

    [​IMG]
    a BR 420 in Frankfurt (Main) Hbf, somwhere in the '90s, in the late '80s a few blue BR 420s came to Frankfurt from Munich

    Services
    As always, doint research on timetable for historical suggestions is quite difficult. Luckily S-bahn developement around Frankfurt are quite well documented, and there is an online archive for Long distance traffic timetables. However, the RE and RB lines are still difficult to get research on, if you have more informations on their stops, line numbers and frequencies, please do let me know.
    The S6 services will take about 50 min, which will be pure joy for those that love S-bahn gameplay, and for those that have a little less time, the route also includes parts of S3, S4 and S5, allowing for shorter sessions, only featuring the City-Tunnel and the inner city of Frankfurt.
    In addition to the IR services, there is also a nightly D-train in each direction. This would be a nice and unique service to play, with the night being filles with mostly freight services otherwise.
    There are also a few ICEs on the line, but these only stop at Frankfurt and go to Kassel-Wilhelmshöhe directly, it therefore makes no sense to include them.

    IR 19

    (From Treysa) - Marburg (Lahn) - Gießen - Friedberg (Hess) - Frankfurt (M) Hbf
    Every 2 hours
    Rolling Stock: BR 111 or BR 103 with InterRegio coaches

    IR 22

    (From Wetzlar) - Gießen - Friedberg (Hess) - Frankfurt (M) Hbf
    Every 2 hours
    Rolling Stock: BR 112 with InterRegio coaches

    D 1598/1599
    (from Kassel-Wilhelmshöhe) - Marburg (Lahn) - Gießen - Frankfurt (M) Hbf - (On to Darmstadt Hbf)
    One pair of trains every night
    Rolling Stock: BR 103 with InterRegio coaches (and sleeper/couchette coaches).

    S6
    Friedberg – Bruchenbrücken – Nieder-Wöllstadt – Okarben – Groß Karben – Dortelweil – Bad Vilbel – Bad Vilbel Süd – Frankfurt-Berkersheim – Frankfurt-Frankfurter Berg – Frankfurt-Eschersheim – Frankfurt West – Frankfurt Messe – Frankfurt Galluswarte – Frankfurt Hbf (tief) – Frankfurt-Taunusanlage – Frankfurt-Hauptwache – Frankfurt-Konstablerwache – Frankfurt-Ostendstraße – Frankfurt (Main) Lokalbahnhof – Frankfurt Süd

    Every 30 minutes (every 15 minutes during Rush Hours)
    Rolling Stock: BR 420

    S3, S4 & S5
    (from Frankfurt-Rödelheim) - Frankfurt West – Frankfurt Messe – Frankfurt Galluswarte – Frankfurt Hbf (tief) – Frankfurt-Taunusanlage – Frankfurt-Hauptwache – Frankfurt-Konstablerwache – Frankfurt-Ostendstraße – Frankfurt (Main) Lokalbahnhof – Frankfurt Süd - (S3 & S4 continue to Frankfurt-Stresemannallee)
    Rolling Stock: BR 420

    Rolling stock

    What should come with the route?

    As both the BR 420 and BR 112 are already coming to game in their modern day versions, I'm suggesting for 3 trains to come with this route as standard, as modelling costs will be lower.

    BR 420
    [​IMG]

    Until the very end of the '90s the BR 420 formed the backbone of most S-Bahn systems in the big German cities, with Frankfurt being no exception. On this route in the mid '90s most sets were painted in the Orange/Light grey paint scheme as shown above, though some of the sets that came from Munich were painted dark blue/light grey (as pictured below), and others were painted in the Orange/Yellow/Light grey S-bahn Produktfarben (shown below the dark blue/light grey BR 420). With a top speed of 120 km/h and fast acceleration and braking, the 420s were a perfect fit for S-bahn services. The first sets were built in 1969, with most sets lasting until the 2000s, and some still being in service nowadays. The BR 420 is already coming to the game in a traffic red livery to HMA, and it would be fun to see it here in an older condition with different paint schemes. More info on wikipedia.

    [​IMG]
    A dark blue BR 420, these sets came from the S-bahn Müchen to Frankfurt in the late '80s, most weren't repainted until the introduction of traffic red at the end of the '90s.

    [​IMG]
    A BR 420 in the S-bahn Produktfarben. This paint scheme looks a lot like the Orange livery the BR 420's came with, but has a few changes, like the yellow band underneath the orange stripe that surrounds the windows.

    BR 111 with InterRegio coaches
    [​IMG]

    The BR 111 is a 160 km/h capable locomotive. It was developed because there still was a need for more fast IC locos after the BR 110. At the end of the '80s and into the '90s they formed the motive power for most InterRegios on lines that weren't to steep. Most 111s werent repainted into the Orient Red produktfarben, instead keeping their Ocean blue/Ivory liveries as pictured above. Many were however outfitted with the new DB AG logo. More info on wikipedia.

    The coaches used for InterRegio services were rebuilt from old DB express train coaches, and later from East-German coaches aswell. Across all InterRegio coaches the interior was the same. I'm suggesting that the route comes with three types of coaches, all being developed from the DB express train coaches (UIC-X-Wagen). This coaches are the Bimz (2nd class), ARkimbz (1st class/BordBistro) and Aim (1st class). The 2nd class coaches feature both compartements and open areas.

    [​IMG]
    ARkimbz

    [​IMG]
    Aim

    [​IMG]
    Bimz

    [​IMG]
    Interior of the open area of a 2nd class InterRegio Coach.

    [​IMG]
    Interior of a compartment in a 2nd class InterRegio coach. Note the unique arrangement of the seats.



    BR 112 with InterRegio coaches
    [​IMG]

    IR 22 was served mostly by the BR 112, hauling the same coaches as the BR 111. Like the 111, the 112 is capable of 160 km/h. The 112 is already coming with Hamburg-Lübeck, and would therefore be way easier to modell, requiring only light modifications and a reskin. It would therefore be fun to see it come with the route as standard. On the IR 22 services the 112 had to swith ends at Gießen, as the train had to switch directions there. It would be fun to include the switching of ends as a playable service for players to enjoy.

    DLC
    As with any TSW route, there are options for DLC.

    BR 110 'bügelfalte' with n-Wagen
    [​IMG]

    The BR 110 was one of the first post-war express train locomotives of the DB, originally called E10. Ther are two types of BR 110, the "kasten E10", with a box shaped exterior like the other locomotives and the "Bügelfalte" (Ironing fold), which had a fold inbetween it's windshields, as shown above. This second type was the one most frequently seen in this area, and is therefore the one I'm suggesting. It hauled RB and RE trains consisting of mostly n-Wagen (pictured below), nicknamed 'silberlinge' due to their polished metal exterior. Like the 111, most BR 110s remained in the blue/beige paint scheme far into the '90s (some even still wore the cobalt blue livery they were delivered with in the '50s and '60s), with most simply recieving an updated logo after the formation of DB AG. Occasionaly BR 110s also hauled InterRegios, being more then fit with their 150 km/h top speed. This would allow for a scenario where you start with a 110 in Frankfurt and have to drive to Gießen, where you have to couple up to the rear of an InterRegio with a broken down 112, and have to haul it the rest of the its way to Frankfurt. Because there aren't any RB and RE services without this loco, I hope it gets released as DLC shortly after the route comes out (like the Class 465 on SEH did).
    More info on wikipedia (BR 110)
    More info on wikipedia (n-Wagen)

    [​IMG]
    n-Wagen, this one has the modern DB logo (which would be most typical for this ere) and a 1st class section.

    [​IMG]
    A BR 110, still in cobalt blue, in Gießen (1979). It would be fun to see this livery too, for those that love classic locos.

    BR 140
    [​IMG]

    The BR 140 is a perfect candidate for adding freight services to this route. The 140s were built as E40s from the '50s to the early '70s. With a top speed of 100 km/h (later upgraded to 110 km/h), and a BB axle configuration, they were most fit for medium freight trains. In the '90s they could both be seen in the Blue/Beige livery pictured above and in the Orient red livery pictured below (and sometimes even still in their original green paint scheme). The 140s were also capable of operating in double traction for heavy freight trains. The 140s were phased out during the 2000s, but many still operate with private operators to this day. More info on Wikipedia.

    [​IMG]

    BR 151

    [​IMG]

    The BR 151 is a heavy, 6-axle, freight locomotive. Although it's exterior design is similar to that of the einheitslokomotiven from the '50s, it is much newer, with production beginning in 1972. The 151 is most notable for hauling heavy iron ore trains, but could also be seen throughout Germany, for example on this route. This could further enhance the amount of freight services and their variety. Like the BR 140 it can operate in double traction. It also could be seen in both orient red (pictured above) and blue/beige liveries (pictured below), like most other locos on this route. It has a higher top speed then the BR 140 at 120 km/h, leading to it even being used in front or RB or IR trains, which could make for a fun scenario. More info on wikipedia.[​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    A blue/beige 151, hauling a local traffic train consisting of n-Wagen, this wasn't planned for, but definetly not too uncommon.

    Layering (from my Saalebahn in the '90s suggestion)
    Based on the content currently in game, only the BR 363 from Riesa - Dresden could provide a layer to this route. It could be seen in it's ocean blue livery a lot in the '90s. The 363 could do some shunting of InterRegio coaches around Frankfurt Hbf.

    If this route gets added after my Saalebahn in the '90s suggestion, there will be some layering oppertunities. The following locos could also be seen on this route:

    • BR 103: Hauling IR trains and the D-trains during the night
    • BR 155: Operating additional freight services
    • BR 141: Operating additional RB and RE services
    Final words
    This route would give players many of the beloved paint schemes from DB's past, and offers players some iconic classic locos. The IR was a beloved train type by railfans, and this route would undoubtably sell quite well, definetly if it gets layering from my Saalebahn in the '90s suggestion. In addition to that this route introduces the often requested Frankfurt Hbf, and a full S-bahn line from Frankfurt. If all the suggested locos get the two or three liveries they could be seen in, this route would be great due to the sheer amount of variation. I hope all of you enjoy this suggestion, let me know your thoughts or any additional information you have below.

    Pictures
    Pictures can be seen in the next post, I ran out of space :)




     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2021
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  2. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    A video that in the beginning shows trains at Friedberg (Hess), which is on this route

    [​IMG]
    A BR 140 (the last one in Orient Red) at Lollar

    [​IMG]
    A BR 140 and A BR 141, both hauling local trains, in front of Frankfurt Hbf.

    [​IMG]
    A BR 103 with an IR at Frankfurt Hbf during sunset.

    [​IMG]
    A BR 420 on the S4 line of Frankfurt.

    [​IMG]
    A BR 420 on the S6 line.

    [​IMG]
    A BR 110 in front of an InterRegio (not on this route)

    [​IMG]
    Proof that the 110s were sometimes still in cobalt blue (this picture was taken in 1994). I also found a picture of one in front of an InterRegio, but that was really small.

    [​IMG]
    A BR 110 underneath the signal box at Frankfurt (M) Hbf in the early '90s

    [​IMG]
    A BR 110 with N-Wagen at Friedberg (Hess), (still, taken from the video above).


    [​IMG]
    The exit of the Citytunnel of Frankfurt at Frankfurt Süd.

    [​IMG]
    Frankfurt (M) Hbf

    [​IMG]
    The historical signal box at Frankfurt (M) Hbf.

    [​IMG]
    reparations inside of the City-Tunnel

    [​IMG]
    Gießen station

    [​IMG]
    Marburg (Lahn) station.

    [​IMG]
    A BR 103 with an InterRegio, we could see formations like this with layering from my Saalebahn in the '90s suggestion

    [​IMG]
    Two InterRegios hauled by BR 111s pass eachother

    [​IMG]
    A BR 112 in front of an InterRegio


    [​IMG]
    A BR 151 in front of an InterRegio, not vey common, but worth a scenario :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2021
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  3. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    Also:

    - the 420 is done by TSG
    - the 111 was until recently used with dostos
    - the 110 with n-Wagen / Silberlingen is my absolute dream!!
     
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  4. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I love that the 420 is being done by TSG, Maik's sounds on the BR 101 are promising. Hopefully Maik will want to do this BR 420 too :). And the 111 in a modern day setting with dostos would be fun too, although I'd personally prefer it on this route. For me the BR 110 with n-Wagen would be a lot of fun too, altough I have locos I prefer above the BR 110, and coaches I prefer above the n-Wagen.
     
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  5. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Excellent idea some of these locomotives are still used in the area as of right now. So that there could be a second bundle for the route Main Wesser Bahn modern Pack a reskined DB BR423 S-Bahn Rhein-Main & DB BR445/446. Since this is actually connected to Main Spessart Bahn Aschaffenburg-Gemünden provided the missing section Aschaffenburg Frankfurt is built. All of the trains here are found On that route in the 1990s.
     
  6. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    I just thought it would be very fun to have a scenerio where you start with a BR 110 (preferably a cobalt blue one) in Frankfurt, and have to help out a stranded InterRegio as Gießen. After driving to Gießen as a light loco, you couple up to the rear of the InterRegio with a defunct 112. You then have to haul the InterRegio the rest of it's way to Frankfurt.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2021
  7. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, the route could very well be home to a modern-day loco pack, which I'd love to see. I prefer the '90s as the original setting of course, but that pack could draw other players in :).
     
  8. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    I agree and for some these trains they can layer onto Main Spessart Bahn 1990s if DTG wanted 1990s Frankfurt-Aschaffenburg-Gemunden Predating the 1994 Lohr to SFS Hannover Wurzburg Connector or post 1994 connector. For Main Weser Bahn Modern Pack DB BR445/446 can be programmed to say RB54 Bamberg because all RB54 MSB services run past Gemunden then Terminate at Bamberg via Wurzburg execpt RB55 which Terminates at Wurzburg from Gemunden & Aschaffenburg.
     
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  9. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Do you mean these locos layering into some kind of '90s pack for the Main-Spessart-Bahn?
     
  10. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely correct that's what I was referring to that includes DB BR110 141 140 & 151. Of those DB BR110 140 & 141 date back to 1954-1966 when West Germany began electrifying all major trunk routes that includes this one and Main Spessart Bahn. Then in the 1970s to 1990s DB BR151 worked on this route and Main Spessart Bahn with the DB BR110 140 & 141 the standard electric locomotive family.
     
  11. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    (not my picture) Finally some good evidence for the BR 110 in cobalt blue having run InterRegio services on this route.
     
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  12. Snek

    Snek Well-Known Member

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    I'd love to see some historic German routes, the rolling stock is just lovely.
     
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  13. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    Great suggestion, especially the rolling stock!
     
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  14. creeperblox2710

    creeperblox2710 Well-Known Member

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    If we do get that route, i hope the BR 110 + n-wagen get added so people can make Repaints like the NX one and use it on RRO.
     
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  15. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    A video touching on the history of the BR 420 on the Frankfurt S-bahn, also showing off the orange paint schemes featured in this suggestion.
     
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  16. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    That's from train TV and I wonder how would DTG make DB BR420 for this route? The Red Paint DB BR420 will portray a late 1990s S-Bahn Frankfurt on Main Wesser Bahn or S8/S9 pre 2014 retirement Mainz to Hanau.
     
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  17. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    Not at all, i guess as TSG builds the BR 420. I don't think DTG would rebuild that one. Maybe buy TSG's model and then use it for a DLC. Or through layers.
     
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  18. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    In 1996 (the year I'm suggesting the route to be set in, due to it having the most InterRegio traffic) none of the 420's in Frankfurt were painted red yet, all were either orange, orange with yellow band or blue (the sets from München).

    It would be great if TSG wanted to rework his model of the 420 for HMA into a time accurate Frankfurter BR 420. However, I expect DTG to work out the logistics of such a thing just fine.
     
  19. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    TSG stated that he won't do that. At least not as his own 3rd party content. Maybe it could be possible that DTG gets the license for his 420 and rework it themselve to the Frankfurt version. Maybe. But i don't know that for sure.
     
  20. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, but if the route is made he might change his mind as it would actually make sense.
    However, I would also fully understand that working on the same train twice might not be exactly fun for TSG, so perhaps DTG will license (part of) the model and sounds.
     
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  21. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    I've been doubting whether it is reflective enough of the modern day route for a while, but I've decided to include some up to date cab view videos nonetheless. So please note, there might be differences, especially around some of the newer looking stations, and the rolling stock is different in the video than the rolling stock I'm suggesting. I hope it does give a good rough idea of line layout and speeds and the general feel of the area.


    This first cab ride takes us from Friedberg, along the entirety of S6, including all stops and the Citytunnel, to Frankfurt Süd.


    This cab ride takes us from Frankfurt (main) Hbf all the way to Marburg (lahn) Hbf. This time it's an IC service (in this suggestion's time period this line was still operated with IR services only), on which a new driver is being trained.
     
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  22. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    If you set this around 1996-1997 DB BR101 is your DLC locomotive because those were starting to enter service. This one is Aachen Hbf May 1996. DB BR101 is operating the InterCity or InterRegio train
     
  23. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Due to the fact that there are so many DLC oppertunities and that the BR 101 is already in-game, I feel like it wouldn't be my choice for a DLC for this route.
     
  24. Wieczorek

    Wieczorek Member

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    Why DTG no doing German Routes in ninetees (1990-1999)with ICE 2 BR111 BR 151 No Interess?
     

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