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Make The Release Of The Db 182 A Statement

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Typhomat, Apr 3, 2019.

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Will you be purchasing the DB 182 now?

Poll closed Apr 10, 2019.
  1. Yes

    73 vote(s)
    67.0%
  2. No

    15 vote(s)
    13.8%
  3. Maybe

    21 vote(s)
    19.3%
  1. Typhomat

    Typhomat Well-Known Member

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    With the announcement of fixes coming to Rapid Transit in an attempt to answer our concerns regarding both the route and the upcoming DB 182 Loco, I recommend that (as long as nothing super concerning comes up otherwise) if you can afford it and want to have it in your collection, get it. And leave an honest (and if not totally positive, constructive review). Even if you might not want it, but want to see improvements and help show how far fixing older content can go, consider getting it.

    This can be a great statement from the community to show appreciation in fixing old content, and help set a tone going forward. I play on purchasing it now with the revelation of the news today, and I hope others are appreciative of the work that has gone into this.

    Thanks to DTG for listening to us too, and I hope that the work that has gone into this does pay off.
     
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  2. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    I had a feeling that they were going to fix it.
     
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  3. bobsr

    bobsr Member

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    Now that they're going to fix the problem with the route that the loco is made for, I will definitely buy it. Also, thanks for listening to the community, for a change.
     
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  4. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    I'll definitely buy it now (the Taurus might be my favorite continental European locomotive), but I may wait for a sale anyway. I pretty much never buy TSW stuff that isn't on sale. So I'll probably get it this summer.
     
  5. Rudolf

    Rudolf Active Member

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    Awesome to read about the technology used to be able to swap engines and rolling stock in services.
     
  6. keksman

    keksman Active Member

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    I dont get what this hype is all about? You guys do realize RT got released ONE AND A HALF YEAR AGO and even got ported in its current awful state?

    Ill pass on the DB182 until they apply new "features" to old routes too instead of including them only in the newest DLC's AND increase their priority to finish long promised features from 3 years ago like the editor, PIS or the multiplayer.
     
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  7. LimitedEdiition

    LimitedEdiition Active Member

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    I'll purchase it for the additional 60 service mode operations, and I believe they hinted that the 182 is coming to the other two German routes. Wish they would also add destination signage to the Talent 2 as well. Seems like a great opportunity to do that while the route is being worked on.
     
  8. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    It’s not the only time they listened.
     
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  9. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    You do realize that RT is getting the PZB fixed, right?
     
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  10. zero909

    zero909 Member

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    To be honest, i wasn't so sure that they would fix RT. But with the changes to RT and - more important to me - that the 182 will also be able to do freight on MSB and and RSN with a future update, this is a clear buy for me. Also, i haven't really played RT - just checked, so this will be like a brand new route for me to discover. Looking at my stats, I am not entirely sure how 18.15 kilometers driven can be good for Level 4... :cool:

    20190403210059_1.jpg

    But in any case - really: Thank you DTG!
     
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  11. 37114

    37114 Active Member

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    I hope they will also put the track into Leipzig HBF (Main Station). More scenario scope then.
     
  12. Trenomarcus

    Trenomarcus Member

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  13. Typhomat

    Typhomat Well-Known Member

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    The money invested into fixing it (pay and all) will probably not pay back with the extra sales. I don't think this is totally a money thing by any chance.
     
  14. giogurto_grande

    giogurto_grande Member

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    Whatever you call it, it seems that we, the community, have actually made a difference on this one :).
     
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  15. Mkdog45

    Mkdog45 Well-Known Member

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    When do u think it shall be released
     
  16. Trenomarcus

    Trenomarcus Member

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    Possibly... but we don't know the economy of DTG as a company. Difficult to say.

    In this case yes, fortunately! But is different from a game company listening to the community. DTG has not made any improvement on this. Simply look at the weeks of silence until yesterday...
     
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  17. keksman

    keksman Active Member

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    Try to improve your reading comprehension but ofcourse only if your creator programmed you to being able to do so.
     
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  18. PlatChap

    PlatChap Well-Known Member

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    Do not derail the topic with insults. Keep them to yourself.
     
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  19. Typhomat

    Typhomat Well-Known Member

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    I agree, we don't know how things are going there. The idea of improving old content is a trait of other successful simulation games, ATS and ETS being two examples. People then buy content because they improve the base game, in some cases as a sense of gratitude. Although it had taken community concern to potentially create these improvements, this is similar to those other simulation games. There is a long history of DTG not fixing content with major issues buried in the foundation of content, and this is very much a change from that norm.

    Also, just a thought - here are some numbers for some thought.
    The 30-day average of players who played TSW is about 200-250 (I'm not sure if the numbers include players who typically play offline or with their status offline).

    If we say that without RT fixes, they sell to 15% of the average base, they might sell 30-35 units. If we skew this to represent more players, we can say maybe 300-350 buy it. At $20 sale price, the total initial gross sales would be $6-7000

    Say now with the fixes, they sell to 30% of the base, and now sell 60-70 units to the daily average, skewing to 600-700 sales by considering a larger base. Same price, $12-$14000 in gross sales.

    Regardless of the fixes, the content would probably end up selling decently over time, but if these numbers are anywhere close to realistic, was the time and pay that went into fixing this content (if employees were paid to fix it) greater or less than the $7000 gross delta, which probably cuts down to about $4-5000 after Steam and all?

    Even if we say 1000 poeple buy the 182 upon release, that's a gross of $20,000 or so. Does that work out?

    If my numbers are anywhere close to DTG sales, my guess is that the difference in sales with and without would be around $10,000. The 182 might have slightly higher sales, especially since it refreshes older content, but I really don't see the cost to pay people to fix RT will pay out with the better sales of the 182, I think it helps improve the community's faith in well-developed products though, and that will help sales.

    TL-DR - They are probably not going to make money on the improved sales of the 182 by fixing RT, but will make it with improved community faith in the quality of the game and how things are being improved.
     
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  20. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    That doesn’t even count for the console players.
     
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  21. Scorpion71

    Scorpion71 Member

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    Would be nice if they went back and put in the "just missed release" ATP feature for the HST, PIS for the 166 and made improvements to the GWE route.
     
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  22. Mkdog45

    Mkdog45 Well-Known Member

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    Really hopes this happens.
     
  23. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

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    Just missed release? Is that what happened?
     
  24. Rudolf

    Rudolf Active Member

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    Interesting calculation. I do not care much about why they listen to the community. It makes sense DTG in the end must make a profit on TSW. Form my point of veiw, TSW is our best chance to get a new generation of train simulator games, even though it will not be perfect and that we may hate DTG for their lack of responsiveness and dialogue with the community. (I think the community can help DTG a lot more and for free in developing TSW). I believe TSW only can have success if the content creation tools are available. What I have seen of them, really pleases me a lot, but till now its only promises and not reality. As long as progress is shown in this area I will support this development by buying DLC and after the last dev update I am inclined to buy the BR182 DLC.
     
  25. SamYeager270

    SamYeager270 Well-Known Member

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    This was the line that one of the DTG staff gave us at the time although I believe it may have been more along the lines of "not ready in time for release" which certainly gave the impression that these features would appear in the not too distant future.

    Sadly this was on the old website in amongst the comments on one of the GWE articles and none of the comments on those articles were carried forward so there is now no documentary proof. :(
     
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  26. Mkdog45

    Mkdog45 Well-Known Member

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    Found this on their twitter: clzss 182.jpg
     
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  27. nne4229

    nne4229 Well-Known Member

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    Why no destination displays on Talent?
     
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  28. Mkdog45

    Mkdog45 Well-Known Member

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    The talent may have destination boards, this picture only shows the class 182 and the dopplestock waggens which both have destination boards.
     
  29. nne4229

    nne4229 Well-Known Member

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    They said they arent adding it. I'm wondering why since the tech is in place.
     
  30. Mkdog45

    Mkdog45 Well-Known Member

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    where did they say that.
     
  31. nne4229

    nne4229 Well-Known Member

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    Oh you know, something Anthony said that Matt said not on the Forums.
     
  32. TrainSim-Matt

    TrainSim-Matt Staff Member

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    The Talent 2 won't have working destination boards. Just having the tech is only part of the issue - the model itself would need rework to add in the relevant bits for the destination boards to start being usable and we wanted to focus on the work required for the signalling and improve the other issues people were reporting on the Talent 2.
     
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  33. xD 2Bad4You

    xD 2Bad4You Well-Known Member

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    Is there any chance that this gets added in the future to this and other routes (like GWE, RSN, LIRR) or are we more on the lucky side that the team got the greenlight to even fix the signaling / PZB fixes?

    Cause from a Consumer point it seems odd that when you are going back to fix something on the Talent 2 this isnt included. This would mean that you would need to alter the model a 3rd time in the feature to add this feature. Same goes for the routes that got ported to Console from PC. It always seemed odd to me that if you already need to go back and optimize / port that routes, that all the bugs got carried over. Instead of having a case like: If we already need to go back to this route, lets fix as many of the reported bugs / features so we dont have to go back to that route again any time soon to do this. Feels like missed opportunitys.

    Just to be clear. I´m very happy that we get at least the fixes along the new Loco addon. Thats something i honestly never thought would happen.
     
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  34. Fabrizio520

    Fabrizio520 Guest

    I will buy DB 182 when DTG decides to create the editor. If the editor comes in two months I'll buy the locomotive in two months, the editor will be in 6 months I'll buy the locomotive in 6 months, if the editor comes in 2 years I'll buy the locomotive in 2 years and so on.
     
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  35. faber2311

    faber2311 Member

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    I don't understand the logic, do you think you could put DTG under pressure
     
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  36. Fabrizio520

    Fabrizio520 Guest

  37. Mkdog45

    Mkdog45 Well-Known Member

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    The dates: D3oT2b5X4AA4X0d.jpg
     

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  38. LimitedEdiition

    LimitedEdiition Active Member

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    If you're trying to silence other people's opinions, why even bother having a discussion board? I'm probably going to purchase this train, but that doesn't mean those who won't have no right to share their opinion. I'm sure there are many more who share the same sentiments and that in return puts some more pressure on DTG to deliver on the editor as soon as possible.
     
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  39. zero909

    zero909 Member

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    I don't see anyone trying to silence a different opinion.
     
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  40. Fabrizio520

    Fabrizio520 Guest

    See better.
    However since RT will be improved, thanks to the continuous requests of the users, perhaps it is worth to insist for the editor. It seems to me that they are taking it too calmly. Maybe they need to be woken up a little...
     
  41. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Then when they release it too quickly and it has faults, you can find more to complain about!
     
  42. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    You often hear that argument on here. I would say it is often the accusers who are trying to silence debate!
     
  43. Fabrizio520

    Fabrizio520 Guest

    Something that exists can be improved, but to improve something that does not exist is impossible.
     
  44. TrainSim-Matt

    TrainSim-Matt Staff Member

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    Editor is constantly underway and its progress is unaffected by other activities like DLC creation and the introduction of challenges, but other than "yes, still working on it" there's not much tangible progress to report in each studio update. When it comes to a date for release, again, there's no point guesstimating a date and then being wrong because something came up or we decided based on feedback that we needed to resolve some issues.

    At this point it's mostly about ensuring that it's possible to do the things you all want to do, identify gaps in the documentation that's needed for the launch of the open beta and resolve those, understand how the testers are using (and abusing!) the editor and what that means for content that's created, and lastly what errors are coming up and getting those resolved. The editor is a complex system to build and while we've become accustomed to building content in a particular way it's been interesting to see how the beta team have been using it and using that to work out whether we just need to describe the process more clearly OR figure out how to cater for the alternative ways of doing things.

    The editor most definitely exists, and a group of closed beta testers are using it and providing feedback, as I said in the latest studio update, beyond that I don't have any further news except to say yes, still working on it.

    Lots to do. Nobody's asleep.

    Matt.
     
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  45. Fabrizio520

    Fabrizio520 Guest

    Thanks for the info. However, I think with my head. When the editor is released I will restart buying your products again.
    Best regards.;)
     
  46. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    That is great news and I have one question where are you guys at in relation to fixing the physics for CSX-HH
     
  47. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    I think that is done. I am guessing that we will be getting them soon.
     
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  48. TrainSim-Dmitri

    TrainSim-Dmitri Staff Member

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    It is indeed done. Not exactly sure when it's going out though. Unfortunately, even if found out that's not something I could share.
     
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  49. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for info Dmitri hoping that it is not that far off from being released.
     
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  50. Rudolf

    Rudolf Active Member

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    Thanks Matt, I love the idea of abusing the content editor .... I really believe it will be a wonderful tool and I am looking forward to try it. It is hard to be patient when you see so much awesome developments and I really have trouble to keep my patience...

    For the update tomorrow, I will reward DTG by buying the BR182, which I did not intend to do before.
     
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