Master The West Midlands!

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG JD, Nov 1, 2022.

  1. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Why?
    80 or 90 miles where you stop three times in an hour is more boring than 30 miles with lots going on
     
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  2. DTG JD

    DTG JD Director of Community Staff Member

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    I'm not sure that's fair - as you've mentioned several times in this thread, we aren't going to please everyone with every route we do (and if we tried, it'd be a pretty nondescript route, or way out of scope). Spirit of Steam, for example whilst not everyone's cup of tea, was the single biggest route we've ever worked on, and catered to a different type of railfan - I'd say that probably pushes the envelope considerably. The Southeastern High Speed was our first route extension. Granted, it didn't tick all the boxes for all players, but it's us trying to offer something alternative.

    Checking through this thread, and other areas, there is also a lot of excitement (tempered with questions around audio and services, which we'll address in the coming week), so there is something to be said for new areas as a method of providing different experiences as well.
     
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  3. DTG JD

    DTG JD Director of Community Staff Member

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    I wasn't here when TSW was released, but I believe the view with calling it 'Train Sim World' was more about the ability to explore areas outside the train and provide a more expansive experience, rather than a geographical reference.
     
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  4. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Not for everyone. Despite my reservations about Electrostars I've been having a fair old pop at BML lafely. I'm also racking up steady progress on SKL. WCML over Shap and WCML North remain amongst my favourite routes in TSC.
    As I've already said, this could have been so much better if a bit more was included, lines out to Walsall or Coventry/Wolverhampton i.e. a decent network.
     
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  5. bakedpotatos.jm

    bakedpotatos.jm Well-Known Member

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    It's a route that I wanted and requested so I'm pretty happy with the announcement.

    Sorry that some of us like commutet routes.
     
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  6. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    No one is disputing that and I am looking forward to trying it. Just that as presented going to be a bit of a one trick pony, needed a bit more put in with extra track mileage and at least one additional trainset for the route, either a Voyager or Class 170. I am still looking forward to trying it, but can't overcome the slight Cathcart deja vu.
     
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  7. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    DTG JD if Cross-City will be available as a starter pack, does that mean those who owned SEHS on TSW2 will get the upgraded/extended TSW3 version for free? (Similar to how I believe it was said purchasing the US or DE starter packs grants you SEHS extended if you owned it previously).
     
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  8. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Which would be MU commuter...

    A network would be great and I have said in the past I would like them to pick a hub and build from it rather than these disparate systems, so hopefully that's what they start with this route.
    Build up from Birmingham to all areas and give more to do and more to see than one thing on one route
     
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  9. marcsharp2

    marcsharp2 Well-Known Member

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    The southern section of the Cross City line from Barnt Green to Birmingham has long been one of my favourite routes as it's so fascinating and I can't wait to play it.
     
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  10. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    14 months since the last new modern UK route and unless I'm mistaken you have to go back to TSW2020 to find the last none EMU commuter DTG UK modern era route. How is that trying to please anyone other than commuter EMU fans JD?
     
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  11. DTG JD

    DTG JD Director of Community Staff Member

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    Yes. After getting the Starter Pack, upon downloading SEHS it'll be the TSW3 version.
     
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  12. Jpantera

    Jpantera Well-Known Member

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    Dresden to Riesa and branches is a great example. To mix commuter, IC and freight ticks boxes for everyone. I do wonder if ideas are being run out of, the fact Matt says WCML etc could be a long way off is fair comment as the route would take a fair bit of work. Even WCML etc is A to B really so can lend it self to a fair bit of Green light running. SoS in my eyes was a step in an original direction although is half empty and suffers from some growing pains (60mph on the flat with the regulator closed on the 8f and a full train behind??!) Sometimes I feel TSW is great and enjoy the timetable mode and graphics but then serious disappointment that we are all locked out of editing and that a lot of routes are fire and forget. Personally I just fire up MSFS or so some N Gauge modelling while more content comes out that won't get my custom.
     
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  13. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    What's to say they won't follow? The way that Brighton now has a couple of routes leaving it, New Street could become another new hub. The Bromsgrove/Redditch to Lichfield services don't go out to Walsall or Coventry, so it's not like those services are getting cut short.
    Extending the line down to Worcester or beyond for the Hereford DMU services would add more life to the line and route options to drive, but that could well be lined up as a DLC (and the track may even be modelled already, just that the 323 won't be able to use it).
     
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  14. andrewandjane66

    andrewandjane66 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure I get this running out of ideas theme.

    It's a new route and a new EMU. If you are going to digitally represent the UK there is only so much you can do.

    Yes New Street will look empty, but at least it minimises memory issues on older consoles.

    DTG will have their business model and presumably they are confident that enough of us are buying these routes to make it worthwhile.#

    As John Lydgate wrote, “You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”.
     
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  15. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I sincerely hope they do as I posted elsewhere earlier, New Street could be the hub for a major UK or at least Midlands network. The evidence from other routes is not good, though... BML hasn't seen an extension or additional train packs even Reigate remains unfinished. Adding in the Oxted lines with a Class 171 for example should not be that onerous. As mentioned earlier, Spirit Of Steam languishes as a little lost soul, Cathcart never got any love. The BR Classic routes are crying out for more DMU types, Class 2 diesels, Class 56, 58 and Class 60 for freight, Class 50 for passenger traffic.

    We can only hope BCC marks the start of a new direction in this respect.
     
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  16. Tigert1966

    Tigert1966 Well-Known Member

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    Well, I’m looking forward to this one. I used to live in the area many years ago and while Birmingham has changed a lot since then, a lot of the line will be recognisable. I quite enjoyed it in Train Sim Classic, so if they’ve got the sound right, it’ll be a first week purchase for me (As soon as I’ve seen the initial feedback and the Gamepass discount turns up.)

    Can’t really judge anything until the preview, but the screenshots look nice so far.
     
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  17. Greyhound

    Greyhound Member

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    DTG JD I'm assuming you won't be the only member of the DTG team keeping an eye on this forum thread, but please can you make sure it is properly fed back through the internal channels to whoever is responsible for new DLC that the community is unhappy with the prospect of only have one new piece of rolling stock. I love the Class 323 in real life and can't wait to have it in game, so I'm not putting a dampener on the new route before it is even out, I'm just saying that for a busy route like Cross City, which includes Birmingham New Street, it really should be accompanied by a second new train.

    I appreciate what you are saying about more details being shared don Thursday regarding services, but regardless of how many services are in the timetable, if they are all Class 323s with the occasional Class 66 doing freight services (which I assume will be layered in), the route will quickly feel samey.

    I'm honestly overjoyed the Class 323 is coming to TSW, but the lack of any other new traction just dampens the excitement considerably, as many others have said here on the forum.

    Like I said, please can you make sure it is fed back to whoever is responsible that the community is crying out for an additional new piece of rolling stock. It would be good if this could be touched upon during the live stream.
     
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  18. ffabio89

    ffabio89 Member

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    For me is a good example this one: I'm Italian and see/drive UK and DE trains is a lot fun (didn't like so much freight train from USA at moment), but....
    How can you read, I'm Italian and i thinking you never build something from my country (as in TSC) and for me that is the unique limitation.
    The fact there isn't an editor to build my own route is another limitations but this is another question...

    Hope in future you will bring tinting train's (for example the Class 390 that I use on TSC somethimes) because they is my favourite one and I can console myself with that!
     
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  19. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    And intrigued by the mention of the forthcoming 730 in the intro article. A clue to the second included train, perhaps?
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2022
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  20. Mattty May

    Mattty May Well-Known Member

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    I never noticed that. Interest peaked.
     
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  21. Sparmi

    Sparmi Well-Known Member

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    ...just informed about Birmingham and its commuter network (interesting architecture at New Street). As a regular TSW player you learn something new with every released route or train. Meanwhile I know a lot about the railways in the UK. This time it's not a third rail route, just overhead lines, like in Glasgow. Because West Midland Railway is represented in accordance with the Creators Club license (including the logo in Livery Designer) for a while, it was foreseeable that a separate route would soon follow. The chances are also good for the first british tilting train, the Pendolino (probably to be seen as a future DLC, because the Acela Express would be next in line). Like London, Birmingham could also serve as a starting point for future routes, then maybe even with the Class390, because after so much commuter traffic it's time for some high speed again. ;)
     
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  22. alexjjones6024

    alexjjones6024 Well-Known Member

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    Can you send me a link for this article as it was not mentioned in the original link on the 1st page of this thread?
     
  23. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I don't know where all this Birmingham bashing comes from. Presumably by people who have A) never been or B) went 40 years ago when it was a bit of a bleak concrete jungle.
     
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  24. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    That's Ok everyone is different, but if you enjoy UK commuter services there's already a lot to choose from we don't need another.

    In reality I suspect it's not just another 1 commuter route, as I strongly suspect that Rivets latest offering will also be a EMU commuter route as well given what little we know so far.
     
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  25. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Then you're out of luck because there's loads of call for up to date routes, more probably than diesels from the 60s and 70s which also get loads of asks
     
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  26. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Not that I recall. I think most of us welcomed Cajon Pass, though we did have criticism of some of the route and stock details.
     
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  27. dangerousdave

    dangerousdave Well-Known Member

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    I'm late to the party! What's going on, what's all this fuss about?
     
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  28. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I saw some saying "not another freight route, can't we have an Amtrak or other passenger route", so maybe "most" welcomed, but there were definitely "Why can't we have...?" posts
     
  29. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    On a lighter note I sincerely hope some of the scenario titles will play homage to Birmingham culture.
    Peaky Blinders for one, but also ELO - loads of song references possible: Mr Blue Sky, Wild West Hero, Birmingham Blues, Last Train to London (okay Lichfield), Nightrider, Big Wheels etc, etc.

    Edit: Sorry got to add a few more...
    Take Me On And On, Train Of Gold, Danger Ahead.

    Anyone would think Jeff Lynne was a rail buff. And that I like ELO!
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2022
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  30. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Or they could use "A load o' bull", and maybe have the actual bull be the donkey?
     
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  31. andrewandjane66

    andrewandjane66 Well-Known Member

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    Surely Ozzy Osbourne's Crazy Train has to be a contender. He's from Aston, which is on the route, if I remember correctly.
     
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  32. andrewandjane66

    andrewandjane66 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe a chocolate donkey statue at Bournville?
     
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  33. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Actually weren't a couple of the Moody Blues also from Brum? Oh dear, we are wandering a bit here but only a bit of harmless fun!
     
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  34. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Fine, except that there has been no evidence that DTG is even considering any of those things on their current routes, so no basis to expect it will happen on this one.
     
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  35. andrewandjane66

    andrewandjane66 Well-Known Member

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    I think they all were. Go Now would be a scenario where you have to start a service in an emergency (One for the teenagers...)
     
  36. jesstrains

    jesstrains Member

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    Will be interesting to see what they do with the layers.

    I can't really see DTG creating any of the 'big' stock such as the pendolino / voyager because they are only seen at new street station and for a very small distance on the exit / approach before the in game route would cut off, and for such little use I'm almost certain it doesn't warrant them being introduced to the game at this point
     
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  37. DTG JD

    DTG JD Director of Community Staff Member

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    I can't confirm (because I don't know!), but we did have fun as a Marketing team listening to music originating in Birmingham. I enjoy a bit of the Specials, personally (I know they're from Coventry).
     
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  38. alexjjones6024

    alexjjones6024 Well-Known Member

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    I live there now, I'm in Selly Oak by the QE hospital (born there)
     
  39. Calidore266

    Calidore266 Well-Known Member

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  40. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, it's me getting confused - it's the 730 that's replacing the 323s, so that could be the second train. The 196 will be replacing the 170s, so fingers crossed for both of those if the line gets a DLC and the section further south of Bromsgrove.
     
  41. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    There's no evidence of anything much DTG do until it's released so can't disagree there.
    SO much for openness and transparency I guess
     
  42. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    New cultural scenarios….

    • This aint no bull..
    • Spaghetti functions
    • Taking round the ring
    • Hot mile approach
     
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  43. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Could be... they did have a couple of cadbury creme egg cars outside the Cadbury world place a few years ago so wouldn't be out of place
     
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  44. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I have friends who live near there, it is a nice part of Birmingham. I live around 25 minutes away and visit there regularly.

    I just get annoyed by the outdated and ignorant comments you get about Birmingham in many places on the internet by people who really haven't a clue. It isn't perfect but what large city is?
     
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  45. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    I think by now it's pretty much clear the routes will have to come first for P42s and Superliners to then release and layer onto a bunch of routes at once, given they usually run 1tpd in each direction, and you need seven different models in one DLC (P42, Vierliner baggage, transition sleeper, sleeper, diner, lounge, coach)
     
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  46. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

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    Birmingham isn't a BAD city, although I'd happily take Manchester, London, Liverpool, or any other city of comparable size over it. And as I said previously, New Street is a dreadful station, and the staff hate enthusiasts judging by my experiences.

    I do wonder if there's a lack of enthusiasm for UK routes within DTG. New German and American routes always seem to be a bit more polished and generally more substantial.
     
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  47. Skyz2020

    Skyz2020 Well-Known Member

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    Birmingham is a perfectly adequate city and as others have stated it does seem to attract some unwanted negative feedback... at times.

    I was looking forward to some westcountry action personally.. haven't seen alot since WSR.

    Paignton to Exmouth or Plymouth to Exeter St Davids

    Anyhow let's see if an XC or blue and yellow BR hst can be found at brum new street... suspect the latter will have less problems from a license perspective.
     
  48. Mattty May

    Mattty May Well-Known Member

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    Sadly, Liverpool is going down hill at tremendous speed. The current council doesn’t seem to have any brain cells between their ears.
     
  49. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I think Birmingham, like many cities which have been negatively portrayed in the past, gets a bad rap from people who have only experienced it by proxy (such as on TV) or by going through it, and Birmingham isn't necessarily a nice place by train given the wrecks on either side of New Street itself (and of course much of the city to the east is now a building site for HS2), but the main centre of Birmingham has been done up over the last decade or so and is relatively nice now, especially when the trams are actually working
    (And I love the xmas market)
     
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  50. frabjousvector

    frabjousvector Well-Known Member

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    Most regions in Britain are steeped in stereotypes, I know this firsthand as a Cornishman. Ahoy; me hearties.
     

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