PC Mbta F40ph-3c Unprompted Penalty Brake Application

Discussion in 'Technical Reports' started by dtlaw, Aug 20, 2021.

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  1. dtlaw

    dtlaw New Member

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    When driving the F40PH-3C with all safety systems enabled, sometimes a penalty application of the brakes will start seemingly without cause. The application does not appear related to any change in speed limit, signal indication, overspeeding, or alerter, and there are no warning lights or audible alarms that would indicate a normal safety system activation.

    Pressing the alerter or ACSES acknowledge buttons with or without the brake handle in the suppression position do not stop the penalty activation. Recovery is possible after the train has stopped by putting the reverser into neutral and pressing the acknowledge buttons.

    I have not had the issue occur consistently, although when it does occur it seems to occur around the same sections of track each time, and at several points during the same service.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2021
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  2. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    This happens for me on the F40PH tutorial with all safety systems on. Just before the speed limit increases to 15mph (back of the train) out of Boston South, the 10mph in the HUD lights up red, an alarm sounds and the brakes apply. Unable to cancel alarm with circle on PS5 controller. I was not over speeding. It happens every time I try it, so it should be identifiable by DTG to understand what is going wrong.

    cActUsjUiCe - Are you able to shed any light on why this might be happening. I’ve seen you give some really interesting answers to other questions about ACSES anomalies on another thread.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2021
  3. danistarwars

    danistarwars Member

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    It happend to me also. On the second journey (just a normal service) from Boston to Stoughton on the 120mph bit with the f40. Just out of no where emergency brake applied with no alarm or something.
    (On the PS5)
     
  4. seanpholland

    seanpholland Member

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    Yup me too, then unable to get the F40PH restarted. Have to continue without ACSES or ATC until it's fixed.
     
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  5. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    Happened to me on my first MBTA Service. From Boston to Stoughton, the first service in the day. ATC/ACSES gave me a penalty application with no warning between Back Bay and Route 128.
     
  6. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    I had a similar issue as well.
     
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  7. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    Happened to me on Cold as Ice on the way into Staughton. I was unable to restart even following the suggestions here. I think I'll just have to drive without ATC and ACSES for now which is a bummer because I was trying to learn it for my stream tomorow.
     
  8. Stephen Crofts

    Stephen Crofts Well-Known Member

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    Also had this issue in roughly the same place. Just once I wasn’t able to recover with the engine refusing to take amps other times recovery was possible after stop and acknowledge.
     
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  9. mattwild55

    mattwild55 Well-Known Member

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    Also seen for me on at least two occasions driving an MBTA train Boston to Providence leaving around 7.24am.
     
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  10. L89

    L89 Well-Known Member

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    Had it happen two or three times. Last time I noticed it was going from ACSES to ATC.
     
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  11. Rich_84

    Rich_84 Member

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    The pcs light would have been on, I think the only way to recover is do a reset ie master key off etc.
     
  12. Stephen Crofts

    Stephen Crofts Well-Known Member

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    Tried that but no success
     
  13. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    PCS light is not on when this happens.
     
  14. bensconnolly

    bensconnolly Member

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    Had exactly the same problem on this scenario as well. As annoying as it was to have the unprompted penalty brake, not being able to recover it was infuriating!
     
  15. AYNIL

    AYNIL New Member

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    Same bug was in tsw 1 new york. They did never fixed it. They never said sorry and then they decided not to bring it to tsw2. Now the same bug.
     
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  16. Stephen Crofts

    Stephen Crofts Well-Known Member

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    Really? So a bit too much copy/paste? I thought the system was rebuilt for the Boston route.
     
  17. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    It only happens in the FP40, it works ok in the ACS-64 so I don't think its the same bug.
     
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  18. trigzd

    trigzd Active Member

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    Same problem here, just running normal timetabled services with all safety systems enabled and for some reason the brakes get slammed on, bizarrely the next time the alertor goes off and I acknowledge it, the brakes magically come off. I wonder if some how the alertor is going off but not sounding in some way? I've only experienced this in the F40 as well
     
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  19. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    Have you had it happen in the ACS-64 - I manage to get that end to end with everything turned on with no full stop penalties a few times now. The FP40, I end up stopped in that one.

    There is still some feedback for the ACS-64 though, when the screen shows suppression surely the ACSES/ATC box should too - it doesn't show suppression unless you're going pretty hard on the brakes. I've been seeking more information on the system but there isn't much that is publicly available.
     
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  20. trigzd

    trigzd Active Member

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    I haven't experienced any brake related issues in either the cab car or the ACS-64 so far, just F40 cab
     
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  21. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I have the same experience trigzd
     
  22. EmilJorgensen

    EmilJorgensen New Member

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    I have had the same experiences on all FP40 timetable services I have tried. No problem in the cab car. I have not yet been able to complete a FP40 service to Providence.
     
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  23. atpyatt

    atpyatt Active Member

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    I've just had a similar problem, penalty brake application in the FP40 then couldn't get any amps even after releasing the brakes. However I noticed that the two white illuminated door lock indicators next to the brake release indicator were out, when I locked the doors again I was able to set off.
     
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  24. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    Oh now that sounds interesting. Going to have to give that a go!
     
  25. atpyatt

    atpyatt Active Member

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    I've just done some further testing and I've realised that I left some important information out:

    When I have a penalty brake application and then can't get any amps on I do the following:

    1. Apply emergency brake, this will open the PCS
    2. Normal steps to close the PCS, i.e. put it in neutral and wait a minute
    3. Lock the doors again (they seem to have become open at some point above)
    4. Release brake
    5. Off we go
     
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  26. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    I did some testing too around ATCS over speed brake penalty - after the train stops you can do the following

    In the cab car
    WAIT FOR THE TRAIN TO STOP
    1. Move the train brake to Full service brake
    2. Throttle to idle.
    3. Hit Cab Signal Acknowledge button (this is the button next to the Alerter button)
    7. Release the brakes
    8. Throttle up and go

    In the FP40H-3C
    WAIT FOR THE TRAIN TO STOP
    1. Move the train brake to Emergency Brake
    2. Throttle to idle.
    3. Put the reverser to neutral
    4. Acknowledge the ATCS
    5. Wait for one minute (or until the PCS light goes out)
    6. Release the emergency brake
    7. Set it to forward
    8. Throttle up and go

    Yay figured out a reset method for when ACSES does it...
    WAIT FOR THE TRAIN TO STOP
    1. Move the train brake to Emergency Brake
    1a. If PCS light comes on then great move on, otherwise pull the emergency brake for the 2nd person - it seems the PCS doesn't always open for the normal brake handle - this would be a bug.
    2. Throttle to idle.
    3. Put the reverser to neutral
    4. Move train brake handle to Full Service
    4. Acknowledge the ATCS
    5. Wait for one minute (or until the PCS light goes out)
    6. Release the full service brake
    7. Set it to forward
    8. Throttle up and go
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2021
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  27. Glazier

    Glazier Member

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    Problem still actual after Oct 05 patch. Got stopped 4 times in 1 service.
     
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  28. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    That's a bummer, I was really hoping they'd fix this one. I guess most players mustn't use safety systems.
     
  29. Stephen Crofts

    Stephen Crofts Well-Known Member

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    Haven’t touched the Boston route for a long while now because of this.
     
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