Metropolitan Line Approach Control Signalling

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by guardupfront, Dec 3, 2020.

  1. guardupfront

    guardupfront Active Member

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    Hi all,

    On the JT Metropolitan Line there's a range of signals modelled very accurately with approach control and draw-up functions. I'm using a guide that came with a Rush Hour scenario pack but there are videos available such as the below guide:



    My question is, should one of these signals NOT clear due to you entering the section too fast (rather than a train being in the blocks ahead), is there a method to get that signal to clear or will it remain at red and force you to pass it at danger, reset the tripcock and continue in Restricted Manual in for a few minutes?

    It's a learning curve for sure but trying to work out how to fix the mistake when I do come into a section too hot.

    Many thanks
     
  2. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    With any signal on any route you drive at a speed you can stop at it.
    Otherwise having signals to protect other movements becomes pointless
     
  3. guardupfront

    guardupfront Active Member

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    Absolutely- the problem isn’t that I’m not able to stop at it but I'm witnessing an approach controlled signal at 4.9mph won't clear if I'm not at that speed 2 coach lengths beforehand and therefore I’m eternally standing at that red signal.

    My learned driving style on the mainline would be to not drop my speed that severely approaching a red as it allows too much time before bringing the train to a stand in which you could be distracted. I'd be doing 15-20mph at the AWS ramp and then braking, and going from 10-0mph gradually in front of the signal.

    To coast at 4.5mph approaching a red is a bit alien to me, hence why it takes some conscious thinking to adjust but what I want to know is how I would proceed should I get all the way from Uxbridge to Baker Street and get stuck at a red in a tunnel for an approach controlled signal that hasn't cleared, short of ending the session.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2020
  4. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    But this is not the mainline so those signalling rules don't apply.
    Simple - look at the 2D map on the 9 key and see if there is something in front.
    If not try TAB as see if it tells you to pass the signal at Danger
    If you don't have the TAB Authority you pass the Signal at Danger, get tripped and then reset and proceed cautiously but you are restricted to 3mph for a period.

    There is the Virtual District Line on Backdated Trainsim
    https://backdatedtrainsim.weebly.com/virtual-district-line.html
    And this guide you can download is quite good at explaining their different systems
    https://drive.google.com/u/0/uc?id=1NnMzDSP9G98Eb5gtgq4QGYBm-AGteeDs&export=download

    Peter
     
  5. guardupfront

    guardupfront Active Member

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    Yeah exactly my point, hence the learning curve.

    Ah ok that was what I needed - when I Tab past a signal and it gives me authority to pass the signal I still trip the tripcock, so if this is normal behaviour that’s fine by me and I can work with that (hopefully as rarely as possible!).

    Thanks very much the guides, I do have the VDL and have enjoyed it greatly in the past with no issues with signalling behaviour, but that guide is very handy in explaining why - I’ll give it a thorough read. Thankyou!
     
  6. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    It would be the equivalent of passing a Signal at Danger on a mainline route and getting a TPWS activation
    AFAIK the TPWS in the game only seem to work approaching the buffers on some platforms
     
  7. ajpardy

    ajpardy Member

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    Google drive link expired,is the guide still available?
     
  8. 390001

    390001 Well-Known Member

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    on the underground approach controlled signals or “draw up signals” as they are known will clear so long as you are going slow enough in the timing section for it to clear. The distance from the signal makes no difference the trains speed is determined by the time the train takes to move along the timing section. It is designed so as to protect the junction ahead of the signal it is protecti by.
     
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  9. 390001

    390001 Well-Known Member

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    Metropolitan line trains or S8 stock do not have TPWS they use the tr system
    that is what would happen in real life.
    If a signal is failing or passed at danger ie a red aspect. The train stop ram will still raised. A train stop ram only lowers when a signal shows a proceed aspect. So in real life passing a red you would get a front tripcock activation
     
  10. Peter Hayes

    Peter Hayes Well-Known Member

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    To the OP
    That is the only way that I know what to do after the events you list.
    Tripcock Reset (page26/27 Manual)
    To fix being tripped by passing a Signal at Danger (SPAD) – reset - see text in manual. Quite a few things to reset before you can proceed any further.
     
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  11. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    And it you read what I posted on Dec 5, 2020 "It would be the equivalent of passing a Signal at Danger getting a TPWS activation
    I did not say LT used TPWS
     
  12. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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  13. 390001

    390001 Well-Known Member

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    and if you read what I said I was clarifying your point and explaining the equivalent to the op how it operates. Something you missed out.
    Have a wonderful day won’t you and keep smiling.
     
  14. 390001

    390001 Well-Known Member

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  15. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    You was not really explaining to the OP as the post dates from December 2020 - 16 months ago.
     
  16. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    Yes you are correct - my bad.
    And my reply to ajpardy was to check that site and nothing else.
     
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  17. guardupfront

    guardupfront Active Member

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    yes, absolutely, in reality you’re correct I’m sure, but in my experience on train sim that signal would not clear at all if it has been maintained at red and I hadn’t hit the target speed at the beginning of that timing section.

    In that instance, I’d then be stuck at an indefinite red signal regardless of how much time has passed…
     
  18. 390001

    390001 Well-Known Member

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    Process for resetting is

    push tripcock reset button on the panel on the back wall where you insert the key

    select restricted manual forward

    a little clock will appear on the Speedo screen thisbrestricts you to 10mph for 3 minutes.
    After 3 minutes stop train and revert back to tripcock mode and full speed will be achieved.
    you wouldnt be stuck as even if you stop the train the signal would clear eventually as it is a timming section.
     
  19. 390001

    390001 Well-Known Member

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    Well it will help people now then wont it as it is now "live" if it helps one person then post is totalyl worth it.
     
  20. guardupfront

    guardupfront Active Member

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    what I’m saying is in TS even after stopping the train after approaching above the target speed, it doesn’t clear. I’ve waited up to 20 minutes before, hence the inception of this thread
     
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  21. 390001

    390001 Well-Known Member

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    Gotcha where is the exact signal location will take a look and replicate it my end see what happens.
     
  22. guardupfront

    guardupfront Active Member

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    To name a few that I’ve seen the same behaviour repetitively after approaching the timing sections at slightly too high a speed:
    OA260 (Moorgate mid platform)
    MB5 (Baker Street home signal)
    MB100 (Baker Street approach tunnel)
     
  23. ajpardy

    ajpardy Member

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    Update found them on rail sim.de:https://rail-sim.de/forum/thread/32394-just-trains-metropolitan-line-out-now/ look for post by fizz binon 23 nov 2019.
    Nothing there about what speed to be doing at signals (Aldgate-Finchley road )I remember a detailed pdf of met line signals and stuff,don’t remember were it was,any ideas might have been in discord
    749006

     
    Last edited: May 3, 2022
  24. Peter Hayes

    Peter Hayes Well-Known Member

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    You move by using the tripcock reset procedure - you don't wait for the signal to clear/change - it may never change.
    Not sure about the 4.9 mph Baker St approach signal SPAD as you would want to stop at the end of the platform to allow passengers on/off other than to still follow the TC reset procedure until you experience 2 green /yellow signals.
    The full procedure Page 26/27 manual
    1. Emergency Brake applied i.e. SPAD you will see Active event message on TCMS
    2. Allow Train to come to a halt.
    3. Press Alarm Acknowledge Button 5 – Lower Right Console
    4. Press RED Acknowledge Button on the TCMS Panel
    5. The Dead Man's Handle (DMH) on TBC – Shift + E to Disengage
    6. Move TBC button to just inside the braking zone "Press D"
    7. the TRIPCOCK Reset Button 10 on the Corridor Panel
    8. Move the Master Control Switch Knob to RESTRICTED – Manual Forward Corridor Panel
    9. Re-Engage the DMH Shift + E
    10. Apply Power to max 10mph "Press A"
    11. Proceed in RM Forward Mode for 3 minutes – Must see 2 signals showing GREEN or YELLOW – NOT RED.
    12. Observe 3-minute Rule explicitly – otherwise you will again come to a halt - TRIPCOCK
    13. Stop the train – one carriage short of SECOND SIGNAL and move the MCS to TRIPCOCK. "Press W 3 x times"
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2022
  25. 390001

    390001 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry for coming across in a rude tone yesterday in reply to you i apologise for that.,
     

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