Metropolitan Line (jt) - After Honest Opinion

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by OldVern, Jun 23, 2022.

  1. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Watching the Alan Thomson video review this looks quite good, even though I'm not a fan of modern stock.

    However go to Steam and the reviews are mostly negative, mainly performance and crash (as in lock up/CTD).

    I would only think about picking up in the sale but a bit conflicted as to who is telling the truth and whether my £14.99 (assuming 50% off) would be better spent elsewhere.

    Thanks.
     
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  2. BigMountain555

    BigMountain555 Well-Known Member

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    I try not to bother with Steam reviews. I prefer to watch YouTube videos instead. I read reviews on this forum and watch YouTube before making my decision. The Steam reviews tend to be overly negative about everything.
     
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  3. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Some of the steam reviews are quite idiotic to be frank. Some people give negative reviews of DLC because they haven't read the manual, so can't get said train to work or haven't got another dependency installed where it is clearly alluded to in the description. Some just seem to want to be unpleasant.

    There are a few detailed reviews, but as said above I tend to watch streams or youtube videos.
     
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  4. bart2day

    bart2day Well-Known Member

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    I bought the Met line from Steam at Christmas and it is probably my favourite route in TS. Nothing wrong with the Steam version at all for me and as theorganist says, most of them seem to be from people who haven't read the manual/description and don't know that the S7+1 and S8 have to be purchased separately. For that reason I'd recommend buying the bundle that Steam offer with the S7+1 which was around £20 in the Xmas sale. That way you have the appropriate stock to run on it with the included scenarios. Be prepared for a learning curve though with the approach controlled signals.

    Unfortunately the route does have some performance issues and I often have my FPS dip down to 15 in places. If you are on a mid level machine or above though it should be fine.
     
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  5. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Thanks guys. The bundle sounds the way to go assuming it gets that level of discount. The other route I definitely want to pick up is Welsh Marches. In fact in order of priority goes something like this…
    1. Welsh Marches.
    2. Metropolitan ( with or without S7 stock).
    3. Bossman Light Bulleid Pacifics.
    4. West Somerset Railway (seems to be needed for a lot of freeware).
    5. (TSW) Arosa Line.

    Got £50 banked on my Steam account so will see how things rock later.
     
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  6. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Actually reading further, it looks like the main issue is that the route itself does not actually come with a train, just an AI version of the S8. If you want the S8 to run the scenarios, then you need to buy it separately. That doesn't look so enticing, TBH.
     
  7. bart2day

    bart2day Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that's correct. However the route comes with scenarios for both the S8 and the S7+1 so if you get the bundle with the S7+1 you get about a dozen scenarios to run.
     
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  8. R3dS41ft

    R3dS41ft Active Member

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    The S7+1 is also a requirement for the Virtual District Line, if you are interested in running it.
     
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  9. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    £18.91 for the route with S7+1 pack in the sale, Can't not buy at that price. In fact, went in the basket before Welsh Marches. Something like a 65% discount!
     
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  10. chacal#2181

    chacal#2181 Well-Known Member

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    Nice ! Please keep us informed if it works smoothly :)
     
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  11. Nick Y

    Nick Y Well-Known Member

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    It's a a nice route but has a steep learning curve for the stock and signalling. The scenery is quite good but you do need to buy the add-on stock (S7+1 or S8) as it doesn't come with any.
    I bought it direct from JT along with the S8 stock and had to read the manual several times.
    I also still get emergency stopped due to passing signals when I shouldn't.
     
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  12. Craigie-C

    Craigie-C Well-Known Member

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    Totally agree with your comments, it is definitely a steep learning curve, but well rewarding when you achieve a success.
    This is certainly not a route or loco for a beginner but is a superb add on for the more experienced user.
    Currently the s7 is on sale for £9.89 on steam.
    https://store.steampowered.com/app/1230278/Train_Simulator_London_Underground_S71_EMU_AddOn/
    Also the Metropolitan Line is on sale currently for £14.99
    https://store.steampowered.com/app/...Line_Aldgate__Uxbridge__Amersham_Route_AddOn/
    or
    Grab both for £18.49 - 64% discount
    Certainly recommend as an add on just keep your eyes on the sales as it is not cheap to buy full price.
     
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  13. Peter Hayes

    Peter Hayes Well-Known Member

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    OV
    The MT is an excellent route I had OOM issues with a couple of scenarios but the latest update fixed those as well.
    I have the JT version - not steam,
    There are some great videos on YouTube including some on the signalling (complex).
    Page 26/27 of the JT manual is a must-read - showing how to restart if you pass any signal at danger OR at the wrong speed.
    IMO buy the S7+1 and the S8 packs - these make a lot of difference
    There is a new enhancement pack for the JT version - out today.
    Hope you enjoy it!
     
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  14. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    Do you own a Chiltern Main Line or London-Aylesbury? No? You will not have a problem. The only possible issue could be a difference with a coach pack or HST pack or something which has an identical name with one elsewhere. As for why those two routes are my question? They use the same set of Chiltern assets. EVERY Chiltern asset in Metropolitan is with the original route. I think Aylesbury is the same. Many of the problems with graphics and such come from different copies of the same file in AP files. If you have either of these routes and add Metropolitan, extract the entire archive inside the ChilternMainLine folder (overwrite if prompted) and you should be fine for now.

    If you have further issues, DM me. I have done file research and may be able to figure out other problems.
     
  15. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Sorry to say but after numerous OOMs trying to resume a saved game plus at least one broken scenario I refunded it. Now spent the money on the NZ route and Ja steam loco instead. I may try again later in the year, if the pack gets a similar discount in the Xmas sale.
     
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  16. torfmeister

    torfmeister Well-Known Member

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    Be prepared - NZ Midland is probably the most hardware demanding route out there - it's nice but you'll probably have to reduce scenery density - there's just too much vegetation assets.
     
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  17. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Strange to say having read that in the manual I was dreading having traded one memory intensive route for another I had shot myself in the foot. Relieved to say thus far no OOM’s, frame rate has dipped to around 17 FPS a couple of times but otherwise stable. And the Ja exercises the brain even more than the Bossman UK stuff, especially having to manage the oil feeds doesn’t leave much time for sightseeing! Great stuff.
     
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  18. jklimentowski

    jklimentowski Active Member

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    Metropolitan line with S7+1 stock is one of the best routes in terms of stopping services. Really well made, beautiful, varied with interesting features. There are also 4 destinations starting from London, so it gives a lot of replayability. We can even pick the express service following separate tracks on Marylebone - Aylesbury route up to Amersham.

    It has some problems though. For me the QD to Amersham/Chesham was broken by a train which blocked the route and didn't move - I had to edit it to move it closer so it would pass my position. I had similar problem in one of the scenarios. Not sure if it is my CPU or bad beta testing? (I think that JT has some general problem with their routes which causes the dispacher to make strange routings sometimes. For example on London - Aylesbury route the QD fom Aylesbury via Princess is broken and when I tried to fix it it wasn't possible, the dispatcher always picked up wrong way routing into another train...)

    Of course the price tag on both route and the train is pretty hight so I can really recommend it on sale.

    20220203033745_1.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2022
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  19. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    Let me tell you right now, it's not a JT problem. Dispatcher changes over the years have actually broken scenarios. Try WCML North "Scots Pine" as an example. If you do not complete the last task before 2 minutes to the hour (I think 10:58, whatever the hour is though), ICN5 enters a siding at Lockerbie and wastes 90 minutes of driving. Fixed by setting a flag to go through Lockerbie station instead of the siding the dispatcher randomly throws it into. Career scenario, though, so can't edit it unless you know how to make that work (I do ;)).
     
  20. jklimentowski

    jklimentowski Active Member

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    Well good to know. On Metropolitan to be specific on QD when leaving Chalfont to Amersham everything is set correctly in terms of destinations but the dispacher for some reason points you at the opposite direction track not setting the switch there therefore you are stuck at red and can't tab it. All this happens because there is an opposite direction train prepared near Amersham but too far away to activate it. It can be fixed either by removing the train or moving it closer so it can pass you. I really struggled with the route because I wanted to add some random services to the QD to make some random red lights and gave up as those trains caused the dispatcher to make some terrible routings in random places not really connected to the added trains. I had similar problems in the Aylesbury route. On GWML by JT there is no way to avoid Dawlish Warren, no matter what you put into the QD you always are directed into the platfoms. Haven't noticed similar problems on other routes yet but you might be right. Hopefully Dovetail can adress this issue?
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2022
  21. chacal#2181

    chacal#2181 Well-Known Member

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    Also interested in Metropolitan line, i would like to know what are the differances on the common parts of Metropolitan route and London-Aylesbury ?
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2022
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  22. chacal#2181

    chacal#2181 Well-Known Member

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    Well, with possibility of refund i finally tried Metropolitan line with S7 +1. After some scenarios and QD i have encounterend no errors (i do have London Aylesbury route also), no OOMs or anything. Its not even more demanding than the older route IMO, on my setup at least.

    So far very happy with this line and the S7 but i fear it is very dependant of evryone config and owned routes.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2022
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  23. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I will as said probably try it again at Xmas. Just wish it had been done in the era of the A60 stock rather than the S Stock, would probably have persevered.
     
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  24. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    After the disappointment at trying WOS 3 again, I decided to give the Met a reprieve and buy it again before the sale ends.
     
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  25. IsambardKingdomBrunel

    IsambardKingdomBrunel Well-Known Member

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    Hahahahahaha, stop it now Vern. Laughter is the best medicine, but i am getting way too much. :D :D ;)
     
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  26. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    You'll laugh even harder to learn that trying to resume my saved game, immediately had the dreaded OOM CTD. Have popped some thoughts in another thread about that. However I do begin to wonder whether between TSC and TSW, DTG actually have any competent programmers these days. Starting to make N3V's pile of creaking spaghetti code otherwise known as Trainz, look good!

    Suspect I will end up making up some DIY scenarios, maybe use the LT Pannier tank off the Museum route and some Matrix stock.
     
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  27. IsambardKingdomBrunel

    IsambardKingdomBrunel Well-Known Member

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    No no Vern, no laughing at misfortune. Have you tried increasing your virtual memory, although i read online somewhere. But no idea if it is true, that OOM is down to faulty assets in a route\scenario. Rather than the intensity of the scenario you are running, or a memory issue.
    "Sharp intake of breathe", very harsh about Trainz buddy ;). But you are right, from one day to the next. I am not sure which are the most incompetent, DTG or N3V.
     
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  28. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I've increased the VM to 8192Gb, will see if that helps.
     
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  29. torfmeister

    torfmeister Well-Known Member

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    8192 Jigobytes ???? Great Scott!
    1631280-doc_brown_full.png
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2022
  30. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I see what you mean...!

    I'll disconnect my hotline to Cern and apply a more reasonable 8192Mb... :)
     
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  31. torfmeister

    torfmeister Well-Known Member

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    That might then be too low, as a rule of thumb use RAMx2. So if you have 16 GB of RAM set it to minimum 32 GB or 32,768 MB or 33,554,432 KB or 34,359,738,368 bytes or 68,719,476,736 nibbles or 274,877,906,944 bits :cool:
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2022
  32. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I might try that as 8192 didn't work and nor did the suggestion of running a scenario on another route first. Still CTD albeit i got a quick glimpse of the game screen before it did so.

    What I will try next is a different scenario from scratch as there's always a possibility something in my save game was corrupted, albeit unlikely.

    It also looks as if whatever today's patch for the route addressed, a faulty asset or similar causing the crash was not part of it.
     
  33. torfmeister

    torfmeister Well-Known Member

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    Page file size doesn't have to be related to OOMs, temp dumps and logs reveal TS hardly ever uses more than 4 Gigs of pagefile memory. There's lots of other causes.

    Urban legend has it that some geek stated that 640K ought to be enough for everyone...
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2022
  34. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Well fingers crossed I started a new run okay, Amersham fast service to Aldgate. The proof of the pudding will be if I can restore the save later on!

    It is a nice route and as I said despite disliking modern trains the S7 is not unpleasant to drive. Have checked UKTS and it seems sadly no one has done an A60 stock for TSC. Could have sworn Richard Scott had done some R or CO/CP stock, not strictly accurate for the Met but hey ho, but the only ones I can find are his models for MSTS.
     
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  35. torfmeister

    torfmeister Well-Known Member

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    Be thankful for what you've got ;) And TS has so many devs, who knows what's in the pipeline.

    The M2 for NYNH from Reppo is a brilliant thing btw...
     
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  36. torfmeister

    torfmeister Well-Known Member

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    Won't be a proof - savegames can be problematic on any route. Sometimes AI timings get screwed, trains supposed to leave late in the scenario can then block your final signal because they refuse to leave... had that more than once (Hausach-Konstanz e.g.). Better to play them in one run.

    Personally, I'm in favour of long scenarios that are split in parts of max 60 minutes. Less chances of the dispatcher screwing up.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2022
  37. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    More reliable than TSW though and at least you get one save slot per scenario rather than for the entire game...
    Anyhow getting drumroll ready, see if we restore.

    Edit: Got momentarily distracted by the political news this evening, but yes, this one resumed okay.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2022
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  38. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    Which news? US or British? I'm pretty sure it's not Canadian.
     
  39. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    British. Boris’ government falling apart. But that’s probably a topic best discussed in more detail on Overclockers UK Speakers’ Corner forum.
     
  40. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    Most likely, yes.
     
  41. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Just an update on my experience with the route. Managed to get through Harrow On The Hill without any issues, will see if I can finish the run later. I am really enjoying the route and train, will probably add the S8 at a later stage. One thing that looks a bit odd are the conductor rails. From the cab these look as if they are laid flat on the sleepers and not slightly higher than the running rails as would be in real life. I checked external view and the insulating pots are definitely there, must be an optical illusion.

    There does seem to be a lot of stuttering and judder in the North Harrow area which was overcome running through, but it was in that locality where the failed save game occurred. So maybe there is a faulty asset. Moral of story, don’t save the game between Harrow and Rickmansworth!

    The other thing I must investigate is how you would use the S7 stock on another route, in terms of the PIS and setting up the timetable etc. From time to time I have dabbled with the idea of building a fictional metro style route but it could be the S7 and S8 are too customised to be of use elsewhere.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2022
  42. torfmeister

    torfmeister Well-Known Member

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    Oooordeer!
     
  43. torfmeister

    torfmeister Well-Known Member

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    Concerning the rails - I've bought the Cornish Main Line from JT - they supply a tool to select standard or high definition rails (by swapping the tracks.bin). That's only in JT's versions. Maybe this applies to the Met too.
     
  44. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I haven't seen that. In any event it's not the running rails, it's the third and fourth rail that just don't look quite right.

    Good news... I was able to resume my saved game just south of Harrow on the Hill.

    Bad news... One of those infuriating spurious (spurious because there is a green ahead and can just be tabbed past) red signals caught me in the tunnels beyond Finchley Road causing a game ending SPAD. These seem to pop up quite regularly and you have to be really quick not to get caught out. Again not something that appears to have been addressed in the patch.
     
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  45. R3dS41ft

    R3dS41ft Active Member

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    Are they approach control signals?

    Have a look at this video from Tom:
     
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  46. R3dS41ft

    R3dS41ft Active Member

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  47. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    They seem predominantly those on the RHS of the track, in the 6ft. Not approach controlled or junction signals so far as I can see. The latest incidence was on plain line running southbound between Finchley Road and Baker Street. The previous instance was running into the northbound through platform at Baker Street, there is a signal halfway along in the 6ft.

    Edit: Yes I can see now they appear to be the approach/speed control signals. User error on my part!
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2022
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  48. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Well I finally made it to Baker Street from Amersham. For the sake of my sanity have disabled SPAD ends game as even with the guidance of the document referenced above, still kept hitting these wretched signals. IMHO this is one aspect the devs should have toned down a bit as it gets rather frustrating after a while. If I can persuade the route to open in the editor, I might see if there's a way to increase the allowed speed at the worst instances, otherwise you end up crawling from Finchley Road to Baker Street at 12 MPH.

    The other thing I noticed about these signals is that if you don't hit the timer but manage to stop at the red, they don't seem to clear. Not sure if there's then a time release scripted in or whether you do need to Tab past in that situation (an action which at least once still activated the tripcock and SPADed me out of the game).
     
  49. Nick Y

    Nick Y Well-Known Member

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    When I did my first run on the met line (and only run currently) in the S8, I too kept getting emergency braked due to signals.
    I need to figure them out.
     
  50. SJA

    SJA Active Member

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    They're a pain, but it's all part of the fun. There's the whole 4.9 mph thing, IIRC.
     

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