Midland Mainline - Leicester To Derby & Nottingham

How much would you be willing to pay? Developers get paychecks, and the more man-hours expended on a project the more it costs.

 

A minority of players is a fallacy, there’s MULTIPLE posts daily on facebook, Youtube, Twitter, Reddit and even this forum of constant suggestions about long routes, even on streams you constantly hear “add WCML” or “add ECML” routes which are hundreds of miles long, I do not know where the fallacious argument of most people wanting shorter routes comes from when that’s simply not true, literally look at the comments on any TSW videos and watch at least ONE person ask for a longer route, when tsw3 came out we had about 3 new routes all longer than 50 miles and we were hearing of longer routes because of the improved engine, how come this standard has changed. I’m all for fair prices if dtg want to up their prices fair enough, but the quality isn’t simply good enough. I’m not paying £30 for a 30 mile route and one loco

 

another bad argument. Developers can get paid fairly and still produce long routes… you guys casually forget that TSC exists and before i get corrected i know it’s different and whatever but the point still stands

 

that doesn’t come down to us then, it’s the people up tops fault for rushing developers to unrealistic deadlines. The people up top need to stop pushing absolutely unrealistic deadlines, this was what happened with TSC and the WCML south and it seems to be happening again. As of right now, i agree because third parties are a relatively new thing they shouldn’t be making 100mile+ routes but dtg should’ve already been doing this. They should have been doing this since tsw2 but what do we get, nothing, just 3 long routes and everything else is 30 miles long, you see my issue with DLCs

 

Are you familiar with the concept of "man-hours"? Basically, if a job requires three man-hours, three men can do it in one hour or one man in three- but either way, you have to pay for three hours of work.

If DTG were either to spend more time on making 300 mile routes with the existing dev force, or triple their workforce to make 300 mile routes on the existing schedule, either way their labour cost has tripled- and guess who pays for the increased labour cost? DTG are a business, they exist to turn a profit.

 

Longer routes can also mean building the branches on the line to get more out of the gameplay. In this case devs create more variety. There is so much behind, if dtg would try new paths like route merges, more extensions, players could buy their route sections to their prefered lenght.

But dtg currently doesnt even seem to care about a proper timetable anymore, which is pure poison for tsw (trenton). Tsw doesnt have an editor, thats why the 24h timetable needs to give a 200% experience to the player. To name also a good example in my opinion is the southeastern high speed. So much variety with the upcoming rog dlc. Highspeed, commuter trains, freight, railtours & rog rail task services on top on a extended route. Thats how devs should care about their dlcs.

New york trenton seems to me like a "released it now or scrap it forever" project, and to be honest i rather prefere this dlc would never has released in this state.

Really looking forward to see how skyhook is performing with this new route, with allan thompson and jt tsw has 2 more devs again. Thats exactly what the franchais needs. If DTG wont get lazy there is a really interessting time coming, roling stock starts to get more.

 

Like I said several times during my time in forums, dtg could make longer routes every once in a while or maybe as part of the yearly bundle. I wouldn't want a 100 mile route for every single dlc cuz I want variety too. A shorter route with many branchlines and frequent stops like cathcart isn't bad. A short subway route with frequent stops like the london underground, overground or my local metro isn't bad. A preserved railway that isn't long isn't bad. Some routes are short cuz that's just how it is, but doesn't mean it should never be made. I still think iow is a great route. I want variety since I rarely can sit down and do a full 1-2 hour long run. Even an hour is really long for me. Save game isn't perfect either so there's that. I want longer routes like wcml south only if save game is fixed

It's not just the hundred mile route that is the problem. It's also the whole timetable which requires more work the bigger the route gets. More service patterns, longer service lengths, more stops, longer testing to ensure there are no issues along with the need to build numerous trains. Like the big mainlines would need numerous trains to feel busy which means building all them from scratch if all are new. I wouldn't want wcml south with just a 390. Like 5 trains would be enough, but that's too ambitious isn't it. That takes up lots of time. Route building and number of stations isn't everything since there is more to tsw.

 

best take so far, they can vary between them, maybe in a year make about 3/4 long routes and the rest be short, so obviously everyone’s getting something, this is a very good point

 

yes i know this, they have to make profit and i said earlier i don’t mind paying extra for profit and man hours if i'm really getting my moneys worth, 30 miles and a loco isn’t my moneys worth, i would spend £50 on a wcml south if i can justify the price tag

 

Very valid point indeed, not every route choice has to be made about long routes.

Short enclosed lines have their atmosphere too.

 

yep, that’s what made TSC successful, as much as it had it’s issues variety was a big point, we could get a 100mile+ ECML, and in the same breath get a local regional route that was 20 miles, too many long routes isn’t good, but too many short routes isn’t good either, tsw 3 has more of the shorter ones, we need a few long ones to balance it.

 

Also want to say that dtg don't have to create a hundred mile route straight away. Go in increments. If their maximum possible route length is only 60 miles for a route outside of a bundle, go 70, 80, 90, 100, etc. Making the long routes for the base routes was probably difficult and don't how long it would have taken to create each route. Just try it once for a regular release route, communicate with us, be honest, take a little extra time and see how the community responds. If certain things need to be cut out to make the long route possible, be honest and communicate with us. I know this is controversial but maybe if there deadlines are still tight, maybe cutting out any branches or certain service patterns is what they need to do. Then communicate with us promptly and honestly. If an extra month is needed to make the route as good as it can be, do that. See it as a test project and take a whole year if you need to. And see how well it sells, if a good profit can be made, etc. And then make like 1 or 2 shorter routes to make some extra money to fund the next project and then make another long one. I believe in dtg and that they have the potential to moving tsw forward. I know I may have disagreed with everyone asking for longer routes and have been adamant about the reasons why longer routes can't be created. But everyone has made valid points and I want dtg to continue evolving. It is a massive task for sure, but I am certain many people will be happy that you actually tried rather than not doing it at all and saying it's too complicated.

 

Amazing point, honestly one of the solutions we can get as well are community beta testers to look for errors in the routes before routes are released

 

It seems to me that the experience of TSC has already shown a preference for the length of routes. I don't see any complaints about the length of the route in the TSC community. Everyone is able to find their own there. Having the ability to combine routes into one network is a crazy benefit of TSC that allows people to realize their desire to run a long highway or dive into the web of suburban transportation, or get a multi-functional road network with a large selection of diverse services.

I think that many will agree with me that the routes are so short that there is a feeling of incompleteness and broken functionality.:
-Rhein-Ruhr Osten
-east coastway
-CN Oakville Subdivision
-Hauptstrecke Rhein-Ruhr
-S-Bahn Zentralschweiz
-Harlem Line
-Bahnstrecke Bremen - Oldenburg (intense gameplay but very short)

All of them could be real masterpieces if they were given sufficient length and branching. They could live crazy gameplay that would have kept us fascinated for years.

 

Don't forget GWE, TVL, SEHS and WCL.

 

Same here, I have seen many posts on here calling for longer routes obviously you can't really gauge easily what those who don't post here think but I am sure many would want longer routes amongst the shorter routes.

It would be nice to see one larger project a year at least, as said a long route doesn't just mean express services or freight runs. I would say most "long" UK routes would have a variety of local and express services.

A mixture would be good there are still many worthwhile shorter route project to be made too.

Many on here only want to see made what suits them, for me a variety of route styles and periods to cover all interests is important to keep the sim alive and to keep as many people as possible happy.

 

Yes I agree some of the routes almost don't make sense.

From a UK perspective ECW would have been far better going to Hastings or Ore and TVL to Bishop Auckland as the vast majority of Saltburn services went there.

 

Not much they can do about Great Western. Don’t know about TVL, don’t own it. SEHS though? That’s possibly the best British route I’ve played (and there’s some stiff competition in that regard with the likes of BML). I don’t think we really need extensions to that one being honest- not yet anyway. And imo the issues with WCL are plentiful, but lack of stations isn’t one of them.

 

Thats why i think dtg needs to improve their selling strategy and in the end how routes get developed.

The very good thing about an extension is, that who ever likes it can buy it, and whoever dont needs / wants a longer section just can skip.

 

Definite truth to that. On the topic of ways to develop a route, I also really liked what they did with the Island Line- adding a new loco (although please no more unlicensed ones!) and modernising the route. That seems like a great compromise.

 

I think it would be good to see the classic lines extended back to one of the London terminii, which I know is a big task and give a full journey to the class 465 which is still one of the best DLC on TSW in my opinion.

TVL which is already short has an important branch missed out so even most of the local service cannot be completed fully.

 

Ok calm down, I only said I wasn't one of those people because I don't have several hours to drive one route, at no point did I say they shouldn't do it and if that's what you think I put down that's your issue not mine. I'll accept your apology when you're ready to give it.

 

All good, my post should never taken personally, the discussions need a bit of heat to reach dtg. They really try to cut too many corners with a lot of tsw releases (we are close to a point where the next excuse might is: we just didnt have the time to make a 24h timetable). So its important that customers let them know thats its far from ok to release those rushed cash grabs. Same for the topic with longer routes, that has a history of tousands of threads and its in nobodies interest to loose fans / customers in any way.

Of course if you just prefere the short runs, thats absolutley fine. Tsw is a huge sandbox, everybody will find something for his prefered playing style.

 

This is why BML was a success, BML is the only TSW3 route that felt like a network. Unless dtg start making more network routes, and accepts the idea of mergers TSW will never kill of TSC, tsw feels so constricted when it comes to routes

 

Which are usually by the same collection of users.

But people aren't asking for the whole route... they are asking for stages of it. Like North/ Central/ or southern stages.

So I don't know what point you are trying to make here. Because even you know the whole 200+ mile route of these just isn't remotely realistic, when a 50 mile route is almost 10Gb.

Just because you see people screaming for longer routes on the internet, doesn't mean everyone wants the same, this forum, the discord and reddit are all just a fraction of the playerbase.
Yes, people are vocal here... but, doesn't mean everyone agrees with you.

And the thing I love about it.. people assume thay because they don't see it, they have this built in denial that it doesn't exist.

 

you just strawmanned my argument. It’s not necessarily made by the same “type” of players, yes someone can re make suggestions but MOST of the time it’s different people making different suggestions about long routes, I never said everyone wants the same, that’s just straw-manning BUT i did say that majority of suggestions being made on here, on the reddit, even in the comments of youtube videos, on the discords, on the facebook pages are usually long routes. Most sections of ECML and WCML suggestions are longer than 75 miles so that still proves my point. No one is asking for a 200 mile route i do not know where you got that from. I’m just saying that most of the forums suggestion seems to be in unison about wanting longer routes in Train Sim World 3. You cannot deny or disprove this, there might be a section the forum where people that prefer shorter routes might be a thing, that’s fair people can like what they want BUT you cannot sit here and say most of the forum want short routes when you have been disproven in this thread multiple times, as the poster said above balance is key. So stop because you aren’t making sense at this point

 

I do see where you are coming from. Even the new routes coming out are a dysfunctional rag tag of unconnected 30 - 50 mile essays. Great for a couple of standalone drives but really the master plan at DTG Towers should now be looking to the future and making routes that can eventually be joined together in a larger network, Run 8 style. While the Peak Forest route might be welcome albeit with previously expressed caveats, the logical next steam route (bearing in mind we are still in LMS territory) would have been pushing on north to Preston, south to Stafford or Rugby or fill in the Crewe - Chester - Runcorn triangle. The first two would have been a great step in starting to establish a steam era WCML.

 

yep, i agree hopefully matt and the guys up top see the huge business potential in mergers and extensions, because that could be what finally makes TSW a good TSC replacement. One of the big things about TSC was the networks. I could drive the whole thameslink in TSC, but i can’t even get to london bridge in TSW, you could drive the entire trans-pennine mainline in TSC, you can’t in TSW. these things need to be thought about in TSW to make the game feel less arcade like

 

Achievements are officially up on the steamdb:

I would imagine that this would be the next route release after Niddertalbahn, considering that route is having a preview stream on Friday. Hopefully, we will find out more info about this route very soon.

Steamdb: https://steamdb.info/app/1944790/history/?changeid=U:36855268

 

well, it better be the next route release after Niddertalbahn, as it should release before the next roadmap ...

 

Bring it on, I can’t wait for this. I’ve wanted a section of the Midland Main Line since I started playing TSW in 2018.

 

Please don’t be a rushed route. Please don’t be a rushed route. Please don’t be a rushed route.

 

The absolutely main thing I hope is this route having a decent timetable - namely a busy variety of interesting service types and, importantly, any extra services from existing TSW content too. Overall, it's the timetable that nearly most of the time makes a route worth getting, especially from a long-term gameplay perspective, so fingers crossed!

 

I do agree that timetables make the gameplay of a route, and generally the busier the better, but with DLC’s like this where they have headliner rolling stock & TOC’s (New TOC & 158), I’m guessing skyhook won’t be overly concerned with making sure it’s a WOW number of services. Regardless of timetable this route is going to sell well just based on the rolling stock.

I’m not expecting to see more than 150 runs.

 

If its actually the case that skyhook manages to botch the timetable in a similar way as dtg with ny-trenton, well then this is next 70% discount sale purchais for me.

But first they have to deliver a good class 158. (Skyhook seem to struggle with the past creations of rolling stock, so i wont keep my hopes high)

Also at horseshoe curve they didnt even include their brand new freight wagon in the timetable mode..., so i asume they just create the entire hype around the 158.

 

Iooking at the map there is also good feight options.

Tarmac barrow railhead + ratcliffe powerstation has an entire loop.




Its on the roadmap confirmed that the ratcliffe powerplant is included, so what you think will skyhook include:

- freight runs
- rhtt services
- railtours
- static stock at freight hubs & derby etc.

This would boost the variety since the 158 service frequeny is about 2 trains / hour.

 

As much as I’m looking forward to the route, i really just need the 158 to be done well, a decent 158 on TSC would set you back around £25 anyway, at least before the Huddersfield DLC, so I won’t mind paying that and getting a really good 158 in TSW.

 

Probably asking too much of a 3rd party developer at this point. Recent routes by Rivet and DTG could have included freight services but didn't.
We've only just managed to get some freight on BML.

 

their was 2 services of freight on BML for a while before more was added, but I do see what your saying.

 

Bml only had 2 freight services cuz Joe ran out of time. It's not that they were left out on purpose. More were added recently

 

It's all good chap. It's something we are all passionate about.

 

Indeed. I can understand that, as you say it's great to see the 158 and a new TOC. But, I still think timetables, whether by a third-party route or DTG themselves, need to be the main concern and priority regardless! There's a reason why many people still play routes like London Commuter, SEHS, Bakerloo, or most of the German routes - because the timetable is what makes it a long-term investment - and overall, really enjoyable.

Regarding modern UK routes, these should be my favourite (alongside modern German content). However, my opinion is that, for me, the timetables of some of the more recent modern UK routes on TSW has been lackluster compared to previous. In theory I should love any route that features Birmingham New Street, and I was really looking forward to Edinburgh-Glasgow - but large, empty stations and most one-loco routes is hardly immersive, nor anywhere comparable to LC or SEHS. One solution for DTG to solve such a problem is to have quieter routes first, then as more applicable rolling stock content comes to TSW, then have a busy mainline route.

 

yep, i agree, or include big mainlines and add multiple locos and charge more

 

Unannounced stream on Monday. Could it be MML?

 

It's being released on March 30th

 

Where have you seen this mate?

 

I just saw this post and i 100% agree, look at BML or Koln-Aachen, Good routes with a balance of it all

 

Really? Do you have a source at all?

 

Well, the new German route released Thursday gone, the next Deutsch route us next Thursday, so by powers of denomination, the Thursday after (30th) will be MML

 

If so, we should be expecting a stream next week.

But the unannounced stream next week is most likely another release:

I was also hoping for a release of the MML at the last week of March (w/c 27th), but it may be the week of the April Roadmap - planned for 6th April I think? (perhaps MML may be released Tuesday 4th April)

Remember, routes can come out on Tuesdays or Thursdays.

Anyway this is all speculation - I personally wouldn't be as certain in saying "It's being released on [date]".