I've just watched the latest roadmap stream and noticed that this issue was once again brought to the discussion table - and once again rejected with the same not entirely truthful answer from Sam. First and foremost, as one of those who played the layers before they got removed I'd like to point out that although the route was a bit choppy around Munich (which is not unusual anyway), my X1X fan was no more 'whiney' than it normally is with TSW and the console never crashed once so, based on my experience, I'm finding it really difficult to grasp where all this 'it will blow your console to smithereens' scaremongering nonsense originates from. Secondly, a couple of points. (1) HMA was tested and approved by Microsoft *with the layers in place* and upon realising they were there it was DTG (not Microsoft) who sought to have them removed without (to the very best of my knowledge) one single reoprt of a console shutting down thru excessive load. (2) You *can* add a disclaimer to state that implementing a specific feature could cause performance issues with said feature enabled. On the road truck simulator carries one regarding enabling of mirrors and Project Cars 2 also issued a performance/stability warning for X1X users who chose to take advantage of the visual enhancements sliders. I'm pretty sure neither SMS nor Aerosoft have been visited by this supposed Microsoft death squad so why Sam assumes DTG will be singled out for some ritual slaying by implementing a similar disclaimer is beyond me! Look, Sam, we all know why DTG won't restore HMA back to it's original state but for the love of god please don't talk about us like we're a bunch of console idiots who know no better by trying to detract us from that point with completely unfounded comments. I'm already deeply offended that, through the actions of Microsoft or DTG (we will never know which one), XBox owners suffer this ridiculous price disparity with our PC counterparts and statements similar to those that came from the latest stream just seem to further emphasise an ever dwindling regard towards console owners as a whole. ....or is this just another one of your infamous; "If you don't like it, don't buy it" scenarios in the making?
Agree 100%. They have to bring the layers at least with the next core udapte, otherwise I wouldn't trust them anymore. I would say the same with GWR services limitations on consoles. Everyone say they can run it perfectly with glitch on their OG consoles, so DTG is very ridiculous. And with the extra timetable brought by the diesel pack, it seems so easy to offer the choice to the players to chose which layers they want to play with. But DTG seems to consider console players as brainless and irresponsible people. Very sad to be honnest.
Those games are enabling additional technical settings on Xbox One X, which is allowed. Xbox One X cannot have additional game content than an Xbox One it has been said. That's where a Series X would come in (separate game). Enabling the layers would have a big hit on performance for the original Xbox One. I'm not happy about it either. I do recall my Xbox One X struggles with 20 services in scenario designer for this route (a lot more than the usual FPS drops of timetable mode). So I can understand why layers had to be taken out (they weren't actually there unless you entered journey mode I believe). What I do support is using the new alternate timetable feature to provide us a free DLC/update with these layers (not all running at once). The longterm goal should still be to optimise the game further in order to give us all layers that can be run on one timetable. This I can't see happening for a while. That's why I think they should do the alternate timetable for now. It's been hinted at a few times this is something that could happen. We are left in the dark with no official confirmation of this happening.
Ooh, what is this "real reason"? Riiight. Which is why DTG have steadfastly refused to make separate, advanced PC builds, much less to heed the demands of certain PC supremacists to ditch consoles entirely on the grounds that "y'all are holding us back."
I'm not very knowledgeable on layers etc but it is the case that us console players can't enhance the game in anyway to get more layers? And that's where a lot of the annoyance comes from? I'm playstation pro so just checking I haven't missed a setting where I can improve the layers in my game?
I'm on the original Xbox One and I tried making a scenario starting at Munich with just 3 trains at Munich and my Xbox's fan was extremely loud, louder then it's ever been. I got 4fps, so it's clearly not able to work on all consoles which is why they won't do it yet. I don't mind that we don't have the extra services yet, as long as they are trying to fix it and clearly they are as everyone on console who owns HMA wants it and they always talk about it. I thought Sam gave a good answer
I play on PC and the performance issues at Munich Hbf on HMA are not console exclusive. With all layers enabled on a high end PC, I only get about 25-30 FPS at Munich station. Now, here’s the interesting thing. If I enable DX12 in the Steam command line, which is a more advanced graphics API than the current DX11 that is used, I suddenly get more than double the FPS (65-75) at Munich station. DX12 is known in general for using system resources more efficiently than DX11. DX12 is not officially supported by DTG yet, but if it ever does become officially supported, then it could help boost performance on all platforms, especially on routes that are CPU heavy.
I think you are remembering it incorrectly. HMA was released on console without the extra layers but a bug allowed console users to access them after a certain service was played. As soon as DTG realised there was access to the layers, they released the quickest patch in TSW history. It is highly likely that the version with the layers had already failed QA at either Microsoft or Sony and that’s why they removed the access quickly once they discovered it could happen. There were (and are) no player settings to choose whether you applied the layers so the bug was the only way to access them. As Sam said in the stream they are not allowed to knowingly release anything that they know can cause big issues for players. As for adding settings to allow certain layers, they still can’t have a setting that is likely to crash your system. They are not lying about it.
Even if it were technically possible, Sony and Microsoft would not allow it. Devs are not permitted to produce toggle-able last gen / next gen games with additional gameplay for the next gen user. (Graphics are OK, content is not)
But for example, some racing games allow more cars for next-gen updapte. The content is the same (HMA route) but with more trains. The gameplay would stay the same.
It was a mistake to buy DLC HMA for my console. Us PS4 pro and I have no problems on other DLCs. This DLC is uninteresting and empty at the moment. If they removed the empty, unused stations where nothing travels and replaced them with a backdrop, some power would surely be released. It's the same solution as the Canadian DLC.
But the content is not the same. It’s different trains with different completely new service patterns that provides new gameplay.
Just chiming in, I also don’t know much about layers, but I think it’s what makes 10 trains arrive and depart Augsburg every 5 minutes possible? Something like that. Well anyways, I do own the route, and if I even tried to run it on my console with layers enabled, the game would crash as I depart Augsburg. In sand patch, there aren’t as many trains on the line as HMA, but those few trains are very long (not as long as irl but long for an Xbox One S). If u try to watch the train pass by with the free camera, and then return to the driver’s seat when u enjoyed the train rolling past you, the game would crash while in the loading screen. Now, imagine shorter trains but passing 5 trains in 2 minutes, the effect on performance is practically the same (or worse), and it’s very likely ur game will crash. This might not be a problem for owners of the more expensive consoles, like the X1X, PS4 pro, PS5, and XSX, or even high end PCs, but it is for those who can barely churn out money for the original Xbox One, or an Xbox One S. Right now, with no layers and less trains passing you every 5 minutes, the route runs at an acceptable frame rate (runs better if you’re in the cab compared to the external cameras), and there’s not a lot of stuttering, again, if you’re not trying to watch an ICE train pass you from outside. So, I guess it’s kinda understandable for DTG to remove layers on HMA, since owners of cheaper consoles will have performance issues. But for those who own more expensive hardware, DTG probably shouldn’t have removed the layers, especially for those on $3,000 PCs, with RTX 3090 Graphics cards, 32 GB of RAM, and 300hz monitors. Until more ppl switch to the next gen consoles, I don’t think the layers are coming back soon.
DTG did not remove the layers from HMA or SKA on the PC version. I should know considering I just did an S-Bahn service on HMA in the 423 today. Also, not trying to brag here and I understand you were just exaggerating the pc specs, but what limits additional layers on routes like HMA is memory. The refresh rate of your monitor will not impact performance in any game. For instance, a PC with 16 GB of RAM plus a GPU with a descent amount of VRAM (graphics memory) will run HMA just fine with all the layers. The frame rate might not be the best (the route is badly optimized to begin with tbh), but the game won’t crash due to memory limitations. The problem with consoles is with something like the base PS4 with only 8 GB of total memory. That is when adding layers will lead to instability.
I played Uncharted on my old PS4. On the PS4 Pro Horizon zero dawn and other games. All in full graphics with 4K, HDR. Now they play the game Control. Very challenging game to perform. Again in very good graphics including HDR. TSW DLC MSB, there are a lot of trains, this DLC has an excellent 24h mod. It didn't happen that I had problems with performance. I don't believe the DLC HMA problem is just console performance.
HMA places brutal demands on RAM and CPU largely because of the insane number of switches and signals, all of which the game has to track and calculate continually. Consoles generally are characterized by "big GPU, little CPU."
If this is true, my console counts switches and signals, after which the train never travels in 24 hours or there is no wagon standing there. At the moment, this junction is empty, sometimes a train arrives, but my console has to count the unused part? AMD APU Jaguar 8 CPU cores I wouldn't call 18 or 36 GPU cores a weak processor.
I bought a next-gen console at 500$ (well below the 3000$ pcs you mention) which is able to run the layers (even if with the bad optimisation like on ska I won't be so sure of that anymore) so why dtg doesn't let me chose if I want them or not. I still don't get it. If it works I enable the layers, if not I disable them (waiting for their so promised optimisation update). But layers not coming back soon seems like a false ad, just look at the route page on their website, they promised the layers on consoles "very soon", and it was in october !
It isn't DTG, it's Sony and Microsoft. They will NOT permit the sale of 'switchable' last-gen/next-gen games, where next-gen owners have access to additional content. Nicer graphics are fine, but not added playability. They prohibit this practice because they want to sell people a next-gen only version of the same game in future.
Yeah yeah I get it, but some people were able to run the layers on one X and ps4 pro too, so it's not just a next-gen thing.
I wish for the layers to HMA on console in the future too. Besides, on some of the roadmaps, it doesn’t say anything about the layers.
Allowing us to enable different slices of the whole timetable is an interesting prospect, but not one that satisfies me, it's just better than nothing. The route will still feel empty like SKA at release... I always said I was waiting for either the possibility to use the 423 on SKA (tallboy, I don't care if it's the Munich S-Bahn variant) or the introduction of layers. At this point with more and more german content on the horizon (Hamburg-Lubeck, almost a remaster of RT and a decent upgrade to MSB) I am no longer desperate about HMA so the layers are now 100% required for me to buy that route, especially now that I have an Xbox Series X and I feel like I SHOULD have those accessible.
Thats not true there are many games that say right on the box optimized for series X/S. And yes graphics are more detailed and smoother Squadrons is a good example. I'm playing the xbox one version on my series x and the graphics are more detailed than they are on my Xbox one X
You misunderstand me. Upgraded next-gen graphics are OK. Additional gameplay content - which is what timetable layers would be - is not.
