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[mod/wip] Tsw 2 Scenario Planner - Working Return Journey And Portals

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by trainsimcz, Aug 25, 2020.

  1. trainsimcz

    trainsimcz Active Member

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    As scenario planner is really basic and DTG wrote that its possible to do only one way journey from A to B i take a look on that and here is results. Its possible to have return journey but DTG dont create paths for that. So i did some modifications and you can see that its really possible with proper path to do return journey... its even possible to create half day journey (do the journey couple of times even with different stop stations - like one journey will be slow passenger train, return can be fast train without stopping, etc...). So lets hope that DTG will stop doing some basic path and do some interesting paths. This mod is not for download yet as im still playing with the paths (doing some interesting ones - trying to figure out portals too as they not suppose to work... so will see :) )

     
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  2. trainsimcz

    trainsimcz Active Member

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    Many of you is unhappy with scenario planner that there is no return journey and the trains are blocking the way... you cant even use the portals there...
    But here its not really true... like i wrote in the first post its possible to do return journey. But what about the portals ? Was DTG telling truth or just another lie ? Lets find out in another video... what do you think ? :)



    I have to say that scenario planner is not that basic like DTG was saying ... basic was just a team who made the paths as you can see on my video there is train coming from the portal (how is that possible if you cant use them in scenario planner ?). So truth is that you can use return journey, you can use portals... but you need first paths for that... and those are missing from the game as the teams dont create them for the routes... they just use basic stuff from A to B - where is the creativity ? :)
     
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  3. Inkar

    Inkar Well-Known Member

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    AFAIK, DTG did not lie at all. They said they gave us a basic version of the scenario designer without portals and that is what they did. It is fine if you modify the files and enable features that DTG did not consider stable enough for release, but do not say they are telling lies because of this. It's really unfair.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2020
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  4. mldaureol2

    mldaureol2 Member

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    Hi,
    Yea, I think this confirms my thinking that there is a lot more working functions in scenario designer than DTG have made public.
    However it looks like they ran out of time and could not test everything before the launch date of 20th August.
    Hopefully we will get some updates with these features in the near future.
    Mike.
     
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  5. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    Possible, but at the moment what we got still has a fair number of bugs that should be fixed before adding new features. I think it is a good idea to start simple and extend it later. Additional features also add to complexity for the users. I agree in the policy seeking a balance there.
     
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  6. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    Most of us will cut them a lot of slack as long as they keep us informed.
     
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  7. TheShotte

    TheShotte Active Member

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    The tools included with TSW2 are in their infancy. They will be expanded, I am sure of it. Also, what's the point of posting a thread on the forums saying something is "actually possible" through modding if you don't explain in any way how to do the actual modding? As far as I'm concerned, this post is not to inform others, but for you just to show off and as such, it's useless.
     
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  8. eire007

    eire007 Member

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    I’m unhappy it just doesn’t work. Waiting at a red light for 20 mins with no other trains on the track is not my idea of a good time.
     
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  9. trainsimcz

    trainsimcz Active Member

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    Problem is not the tools, they are fine for now, problem is that they dont create paths for that parts and make it looks like it is impossible to use it but with proper path it is possible to use it - it is still limited as only one train can start from each portal and finish at each portal but its still better than have the trains blocking the train station platforms.
    For your second part of the post, most of the community already know me here, i dont need to show off... many of my mods are released for public... Im not going to release this mod right now as there is only 2 paths now (return journey and one portal). When i will finish other paths than yeah i will release that for public but right now it is just preview what users can expect from that mod.
     
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  10. TheShotte

    TheShotte Active Member

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    I know of you too, for almost as long as I have been playing TSW. I scoured your trainsim.cz site both in Czech and English translation (multiple times) to see if you by any chance wrote any info anywhere as to how to do the things you do inside TSW2020. The fact that you modded the game as much as you did, but shared absolutely no info as to how you did it bothers me significantly because proper modders tend to mod the actual game, and share their discoveries and knowledge as to how with the community so others can learn and do it as well, because someone else might discover something/someway and you bounce knowledge off one another because collectively you are stronger. You, you mod the game, but you don't share your knowledge or findings with anyone. If scientists operated like this as well, we wouldn't even have computers yet.

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. CC Johnson

    CC Johnson Active Member

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    @TheShotte Boy, you are sooo right.

    What you don't seem to realize is that because of TSW2 and DTG's new transparency and information policies there are quite a few new people here, or folks like me, that weren't here for a long time and/or never saw a reason to be here until now.
    I never heard of you. And you confused the hell out of me with the other post a few days ago. I thought you were sharing some ini hack or something, and it took me hours to get that you're talking about seriously modding the game. So thanks for wasting some of my lifetime, just because you teased something I wanted, too, but I couldn't get.
    You're a real well of modesty, aren't you?
    But seriously, all you do is show off. You like to tease things, but not explain anything. Sure, you share some of your work, after a long while, but not nearly as much as you announce - and your announcements aren't even explained as those, just that it's possible - for you. And beware not to tell us how you did anything - keeping your secrets saves you from the possibility that anyone else could take your knowledge and maybe build on it or do it even better.
    And when you publish something you hide it except for a select view - on your own page only, that doesn't even have an english language option. How about supporting a community on any site that has mods from more than one author? Too much competiton?
    While your technical skills seem to be quite impressive and clearly surpass mine by a lot - you're not a real modder. Because modding is about not only making something, it's about sharing - not only mods itself, but also knowledge, tips, tricks and how-to's. It's about community.
    There's a reason I never heard about you before; not on nexusmods, not on transportfever.net, not anywhere.

    Oh, and before this gets a big discussion. This is my opinion. I don't know "the truth". But I stand by it. If anyone's opinion differs - that's fine too.

    PS: DTG didn't lie, as far as I can tell, at least for the last few months. They were and are very clear about a lot of things. Which I really love. But for that to know one would need to watch their streams - in full.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2020
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  12. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    He never shares info on how he does this stuff.
     
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  13. trainsimcz

    trainsimcz Active Member

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    To be clear, first thats a little bit off topic here but ok. Than yeah im showing some stuff which i will release and what community can look for... You complain about that im releasing it after long while, to be clear about that im releasing my mods after im happy with them... why would i release mod where there is only 2 paths to show what can be possible ? isnt it better to release it when its finish with many interesting paths ? of course it is but than that takes time as this is not replacing skin on the loco or even sounds, this is some more complex stuff so you have to wait for it. Sometimes im working on more projects as i dont like stick only with one and i always like learning some new stuff so it takes even more time for release... and sometimes it happened that there is bugs which i cant fix right now and i dont want to spend hours on that to find the solution while i can work on somethink else and than there is no release until i fix the problem. but most of the time im releasing the stuff (of course i can keep it for myself and than just tease you here - that is what are you thinking im doing now hm :) ).... im using TSC discord and my cz page (those are my primary mediums) for releasing my stuff. I dont need to upload my stuff on other pages as than its difficult to maintain the versions. If you will look around the internet there is even tool called Mod manager for TSW where you can actually download all mods into your TSW (and yes it include even my page with my mods, but im sure you never heard of that tool too until now)
     
  14. deppalas

    deppalas Member

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    I like how you ignored 95% of the message and still managed to write half a book.

    Nobody cares about WHAT you do, but HOW you do it.
     
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  15. FeralKitty

    FeralKitty Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps the people interested in modding would like to know HOW trainsimcz does it, but I'd say everyone else who uses and enjoys the mods are grateful for WHAT is done!

    I don't see people insisting that the companies who make paid DLC tell the public how THEY did it. Why should an individual who freely distributes their mods be treated with any less respect, consideration, or appreciation?

    Thanks, trainsimcz!
     
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  16. conrail

    conrail New Member

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    Devs build their DLC with proprietary knowledge of their custom-modified engine.

    Mystery solved. This must be what it feels like to be Jake Peralta.
     
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  17. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    It would be awesome to have some idea, on how to do this modding. I decided to make all support software I create open source, so you can copy it and use it or help me to write better code. There are not huge numbers of enthusiasts doing it, but openness is a great value.
     
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  18. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    Join the TSW discord Rudolf, they have a modding section for fellow enthusiasts.
    Some great liveries too.
     
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  19. CC Johnson

    CC Johnson Active Member

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    @trainsimcz
    I have nothing more to add.
    Just put [mod/WIP] in front of your posts' titles so anyone, new and long time members, instantly know what it's about. This is common courtesy all around modding that you seem to never have heard of. And some people, like me, wouldn't be so confused by your stuff.
    And maybe, if you're feeling generous, when you manage to finish something, change the title to [mod/released] and add a link to your original post on your page, so everyone can find it easily.
    Only one example: For a long while I am begging DTS to bring out combined routes and services, p.ex. for NEC and LIRR. You tease that on your homepage, but for the life of me, I can't find the corresponding download. So you gave me a little hope and then just left me hanging. And that is one of the things that really piss me off.
     
  20. DeJaPa

    DeJaPa New Member

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    With all this negativity towards trainsimcz, I'm starting to think you're trying to scare him away...
    What's up with that? Be grateful that at least one person has managed to go beyond what first was possible.
    I trully enjoy the mods he has released and would be quite bummed out that due to a few community members being salty he would stop working on it. Do you guys know how demotivating it is to just see complaints?

    Sure sharing on how this works would be great, but to be honest... I couldn't be bothered cause I wouldn't do it myself anyway. I'd rather download it as a mod and use it than fiddle with it myself.

    It's the same actually towards Dove Tail Games, in the eyes of a few among the community they can't do anything right cause always someone has an opinion (all be it negatively or not). For those I'd like to say, if you think you can do it better, have at it...

    Woow, so that turned out to be quite an off-topic rant... As to be on-topic.

    DTG at least said they would work on the scenario planner after receiving feedback. So maybe they released an somewhat stripped version to begin with. Somewhere in their developer tools there is definitely the means to use portals and return services but maybe not stable enough yet or not simplified enough yet for use in the scenario planner. Which doesn't mean they're aren't going to add it later.
    So I wouldn't say that they've 'lied', they just said it's not possible with the current scenario planner. ;)
     
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  21. ShaneS89

    ShaneS89 Member

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    I’ve seen modders leave forums for a lot less than what’s been said in this thread. Remember he’s doing this in his own time, for free. This isn’t his job, so nobody should be telling him what he should do or how he should be doing it.
    He could quite easily stop releasing these mods, and I wouldn’t blame him tbh.
     
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  22. trainsimcz

    trainsimcz Active Member

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    See and thats the one part of that... merged LIRR and NEC, merged that timetable and after all that excitement its not working yet as there is more to fix before it will start working. With the proper tools it will be easy to fix that but without them im stuck until i figure out how to work with map and do proper joints so the game will see the whole path. Thats the reason why its not released... i can release it but than you will be piss off as it will not work... you want working or non-working mods ? I meant the train can use the rails, they even spawn where they suppose to, but the signals, switches are not working. The same problem is with my real MSB timetable... if you start the timetable from 0:00 (with the first service) than all is working fine, but if you choose different service than it stop working... reason for that is that timetable is using timing data to tell the game where is the each service in that exact time when you load the map, and its in ms, not in min or sec. Those data can be generated by proper tools as generating the data will simulate the timetable and save the data for it. So until i figure that out, there is no reason even public that as that will be peace of not working timetable if you choose different service than the first one. Is scenario planner using timing data ? I dont test that yet... if i place train on one path with start at 12:00 and my train on other path with start at 12:10... will the AI train be still on that first train station or in the middle of the journey ? If the train is still on begin station than there is no timing data for that. Usually scenarios from TSW dont use timing data as you always start in that pre-defined time.

    Anyway i changed the name of to post so its not confusing anymore, next time i will be more careful with naming the thread.
     
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  23. CC Johnson

    CC Johnson Active Member

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    I am not trying to scare him away, I want him to be clear about what he is doing. I do have some limited experience with modding other games and a lot with using mods, but after seeing several of his posts, I was confused for hours as to what this was all about and how to achive that. That was what's so frustrating to me.
    @ trainsimcz
    btw, I saw the post's title has changed, and this makes me extremely happy. Now everyone can be on the same page. Great!
    I am grateful for every finished, released and working mod - on any game. Less so when it's only teased and won't get finished, or when one doesn't have any clue as how to get and use it because there's no links in the posts and no clear information.
    Yes, yes I do. I have some - admittedly minor - mods on the steam workshop and on transportfever.net. And I know people can be harsh, and dumb, and frustrating. I really was frustrated here myself, and it was not my intention to demean him, but to tell what I think he's doing wrong - not in modding itself, but in communication.
    But, no matter how stupid people are and ask the same questions over and over again without reading other comments first or just wanting to change stuff that I can't do and so on - I NEVER, never threatened to delete any mod or even did it. I have no respect for modders like that. It just comes with the territory.
    That is the backbone of modding. When one person finds out how to do something with a game, it should be shared, so other people can work and advance on that. I happily admit that most of my mods wouldn't exist without the knowledge and work of someone else before. (btw, NOT the same thing as copying and release someone else's work. That's a clear no-no)
    Sadly true. They're by no means perfect, but they're trying to do as much as is possible. But much of the negativity was due to their poor communication, which seems they're trying really hard to change. I respect the hell out of that.
    That is exactly what they said: Starting slow with few feature, seeing what we can break, and improving and expanding from there. Unfortunately, not everybody understands that.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2020
  24. CC Johnson

    CC Johnson Active Member

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    Link, please.


    I get that. But that's what I'm talking about. You tease stuff too early without knowing how far you get. My experience from other games and modding communities is: Never tell people what you're trying to do - they get all riled up - just like me. Do it, and if you're successful, surprise the world with a working gift. We will love you for that. Same as some will really bring the hate when you showed something off and can't deliver.
    Just my take on it. I do have the right to voice my opinion. If you don't like it, you can ignore me.
    Of course, you do you.
    BUT:
    You have no idea how happy that makes me that you took my advice. I really do respect that.
    And if you haven't done so already, please do that for all your (modding) posts and stick to it. Thank you so much.

    Just think about how much you'll tease from now on and when/how you publish something. And maybe think about sharing your techniques, so we'll be able to work upon each other in the future. But, of course, that's up to you.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2020
  25. FeralKitty

    FeralKitty Well-Known Member

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    That’s your belief, but other modders should be free to make their own decision about sharing.
    That comes across like a certain person doesn’t understand their decision is wrong.

    I hope we can avoid criticism of other modders for not doing things the way we think they should be done.
     
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  26. CC Johnson

    CC Johnson Active Member

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    That was meant in general with no one specific in mind.

    Just no.
    Criticism needs to be allowed at any and all times. And I find your sentiment very problematic.
    Though I tried to be constructive, albeit not fully successful due to my own feelings.

    Also, there's an etiquette among modders. Sure, no one is forced to adhere to it, but it helps avoid confusion and miscommunication a lot.
     
  27. FeralKitty

    FeralKitty Well-Known Member

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    There’s a distinction between constructive criticism (helpful), and attacks, hostility, or fault finding.

    I think you’re trying to be helpful and well-meaning, but some of it seems a bit personal.

    I think my sentiment is very problematic because we don’t think or feel the same. Someone who agreed with me probably wouldn’t find it problematic.

    I don’t mind teasers. It’s interesting and even exciting to see what others are accomplishing, even through it is incomplete.

    Can we please agree to disagree? I’d simply like to play the sim and enjoy it, while looking forward to what DTG or modders do to improve it even more.
     
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  28. CC Johnson

    CC Johnson Active Member

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    Yes, yes we can.
    Me, too.
     
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