Train Sim World 3 Ecml South (london-peterborough) Ats

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by olly.smail, Feb 1, 2023.

  1. olly.smail

    olly.smail Well-Known Member

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    Hi all, today i will be making the route suggestion of Ecml south, London Kings Cross + St Pancras Thameslink to Peterborough, set in the modern day, for alan thomson simulations specifically. this was infact the first route suggestion i made in the forums, however i want to go into a bit more detail this time round (so prepare for a long read) with everything so here we go.

    A route overview


    This particular section of the ECML South, from both st pancras thameslink and kings cross to peterborough, is approximately 76 miles (122km) in length end to end and features 25 stations. The route starts out with highly dense scenery as you depart the magnificently redeveloped London Kings Cross, or emerging from the canal tunnels from the boxy subsurface station of st pancras thameslink, bypassing the north london suburbs and iconic landmarks like the arsenal stadium and alexandra palace. Towards the london end of the route, we also see 2 (sort of 3) main depots, which we will touch more on later. The line passes through a series of tunnels as it twists its way out of the capital until welwyn garden city where you glide across the stunning welwyn viaduct. After this, you pass through the final 2 tunnels of this end of the route, those being welwyn north and welwyn south with a very short distance out in the open between the 2. After welwyn, scenery slowly becomes less dense and suburban like, with more hertfordshire countryside coming into view. As you pass under the cambridge flyover just after hitchin, the gradients flatten out and the stations begin to become slightly further apart. On the approach into Peterborough, the city slowly comes into view after being surrounded by cambridgeshire countryside, and you pass over the river nene, where (when travelling north) you can see the nene valley railway off to the left, aswell as the fen lines from the likes of march and ely aswell as the old reused engine sheds on the right and the carriage sidings on the left, housing the great northern and thameslink fleet of trains.

    Why this route/why ATS specifically.

    The train sim world community has been asking for this route for many years now, and there’s never been a better time to get it done. With the recent addition to the 3rd parties program of Alan Thomson Simulations, this is their opportunity to breathe fresh air into this game. The team of enthusiasts at ATS have previous experience creating the ecml in TSC, and their skills could now be used to recreate this in TSW3 for us all to enjoy.

    Trains included

    Now that we’ve got the overview and the reasons why this route out the way, let’s answer the question of what trains will be included with this add on.

    Three trains would come with this route as standard:

    LNER Class 801 ‘Azuma’

    ThamesLink Class 700 ‘Desiro City’

    Great Northern Class 717 ‘Desiro City’


    The hitachi Class 801 ‘Azuma’ is a part of the AT300 family of trains built by Hitachi at both Kasado works and Newton Aycliffe factories for use on the ECML, replacing the ageing stock used on this crucial mainline. They operate on only the 25kv AC Overhead line equipment and also have a top speed of 125mph (when in service) however have the capability of operating at 140mph once the upgrade works to the ecml are complete in the future. They have 2 subclasses, being the 801/1 and the 801/2. The 801/1 units are formed of 5 cars and are also commonly seen operating as a pair to form a 10 coach train for additional capacity. The 801/2 units are formed of 9 coaches and are mainly used on services crossing the entire ECML, as far north as Stirling. In this route, they will operate express/intercity services between london and peterborough with some making the occasional stop at stevenage along the way.

    The siemens ‘Class 700’ desiro city units are a key part to the Thameslink network across southern england since their introduction in 2016. They are dual voltage electrical multiple units meaning they can operate on both 750V DC Third Rail aswell as 25kv AC Overhead, which is what they will use when operating on the ecml. They have once again 2 subclasses, the /0 and the /1. The main differences are that the /0 units are 8 coaches in length, whilst the /1 units are 12 coaches in length. They have a top speed of 100mph and are high capacity commuter trains used heavily in and out of the capital daily.

    Lastly, included in this DLC is the siemens Class 717 ‘Desiro City’. These units replaced what was the oldest mainline passenger stock seen in the UK, and so it was a big step up for both customers and staff. They are also dual voltage electrical multiple units, which are used on commuter services within and just outside the capital. They are formed of 6 coaches and have a top speed of 85mph.

    For these trains, it would be nice to see ATS and AP partner up to give us top quality sounding units.

    Depots and Sidings

    Me personally, i enjoy doing ECS runs to and from depots and sidings, and this route is not short of the latter. This route would include the 3 main depots of: Bounds Green Intercity depot (housing 801s) Ferme Park (housing 801s) Hornsey Traincare Depot (housing 700s and 717s.) Sidings would include Peterborough Nene C.S., Spital Sidings (slightly north of PBO) and Welwyn stabling Sidings. If possible, i would want to see these available in Scenario Planner too.

    Timetables/Services

    This route would give a similar experience to the london commuter route due its densely populated timetable and variety seen across its length. The route would use a current day timetable (first half of 2023) which would see highly frequent thameslink and great northern commuter services aswell as frequent lner intercity azuma services. using a current timetable would give players a true to life experience adding immersion to the route.

    Layers

    As you can imagine, a route of this size could not come short of layers. Starting at the top of the route, AI freight services could be seen at Peterborough coming off the Fen Lines heading up north or vice versa. They could also head down towards london however it isn’t as common. Rail tours could be seen in the form of steam and old diesel traction, aswell as possibly AI steam trains on the nene valley railway, even if static. Class 465 drags are currently seen approximately fortnightly from Doncaster to Slade Green and vice versa, of which use this route for a fair section. Tracing back time a little while ago, a few Class 385 units were delivered in the form of a drag behind a class 66 up this line, which could also be added in. At the london end, AI Class 395 and TGV Duplex(eurostar) services should be seen crossing the ecml when heading into the HS1 Tunnels to add to the traffic levels in the area. What may seem an obvious layer would be the Class 387/2, however Great Northern uses 387/1s mainly, meaning this train would need reworking to fit the line itself, however having it as a scenario/service from Hornsey to st pancras (then continuing to lovers walk) would be a welcomed addition.

    Features I’d like to see

    For all the trains featured in this route, i’d like to see a functioning GSM-R , wether that be fully (we register it) or partially (seen in BCC) Aswell as this, announcements would be very cool to have however if they’re not true to life id prefer to not have any at all if im honest, as it breaks the immersion. Flashing signals seen in the welwyn area would also be nice to see, adding to the realism. Working TPWS loops would also be great to have, aswell as SDO as seen on E-G. Something that players would also want is a full accessible concorse at Kings Cross, so we can admire the beautiful station in all its glory. Liveries wise, i’d really like to see the special liveries on the 700s and 717s, those being pride (700154) and the nhs livery on 700111 and 717011.

    Possible DLC/Extentions

    As a loco/train DLC, the Class 91 + Mk4 + DVT in LNERs fresh oxblood intercity livery. These iconic intercity 225 sets still carry passengers up and down this mainline to this day, and are going strong. They were recently repainted into LNERs very own oxblood intercity styled livery giving them a fresh look after wearing vtec for many years. These are an icon of the ecml and would add diversity to the route as a dlc, of which would be very popular due to its fame in the real world.

    Another possible DLC for this route, could be the addition of both the Hertford Loop and the Northern City line as one pack. This package of route extensions could add so much more to the route, with longer runs with the Class 717 in timetable mode, aswell as the experience of the northern city line down to moorgate, previously used by tube trains. This would also allow for you to use the full ability of the 717s dual voltage, by changing power at drayton park as you head beneath the surface. Aswell as new 717 services in timetable mode, there could also be the addition of diversion scenarios representing what sometimes happens in real life when engineering works are taking place.

    Pricing

    As you can imagine, a route of this length and detail aswell as the 3 trains that could come with the route, pricing would have to be higher than the current standard of £29.99. I’m sure most people would be happy to be the increased price up to around £39.99, as it comes with 3 new trains as standard and the length and detail of the route being of a high quality. As for the DLCs, The Intercity 225 Class 91 ‘loco’ would be priced around £14.99. The Hertford Loop + Northern City Lines package of route extensions could be priced between £14.99 and £19.99, depending on the difficulty of creating these extensions and their overall quality.

    Summary

    Overall, the community of TSW has been asking for this route for years, and with ATS onboard, there’s no better time to deliver what we have all been dying for. With plenty of DLC content available for the route, it would have a long lasting life and would be most likely the most popular route in the game if done to a high standard. As for the era, i believe it being set in current day would be the best as it could then use the Class 700 to layer onto the BML & SEHS routes, adding gameplay to those too, and not only this, having the canal tunnels open into st pancras is an extra experience on top of the already wonderful approach into KGX. It’s been a long one, but thanks for reading and i really hope DTG & ATS take into consideration for all the reasons i have stated. Goodbye:)

    (Below i have added a few photos of the trains for your viewings:))
     

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  2. sophieclarke1983

    sophieclarke1983 Well-Known Member

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    I would definitely buy this if it ever came to console
     
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  3. lucasfor49

    lucasfor49 Well-Known Member

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    one critiscm: Id add the kings llyn branch for more Great Northern services and also add the 387 in great northern livery.
     
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  4. smugstarlord#4202

    smugstarlord#4202 Well-Known Member

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    Agree with the suggestion but much rather have the 91 over the 800
     
  5. olly.smail

    olly.smail Well-Known Member

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    you can see what i said about the 387 in the layers section, however the ‘branch’ to kings lynn isn’t short in the slightest and would be a huge addition to this route itself
     
  6. olly.smail

    olly.smail Well-Known Member

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    i suggested the 801 as the standard train as it’s used for a higher number of services and from a business point of view they will make more money of the 91 as a dlc rather than a standard train
     
  7. Lil jj

    Lil jj Well-Known Member

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    This is a brilliant route for tsw3. Although I would definitely prefer the intercity 225 as a standard train for the route.
     
  8. smugstarlord#4202

    smugstarlord#4202 Well-Known Member

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    The ECML is iconic for the 91s more than the later 801s and therefore boost sales for the route as a whole
     
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  9. olly.smail

    olly.smail Well-Known Member

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    yes but it’s not typical or realistic to only have 91s rather than a mixture, mainly 801s.
     
  10. pessitheghost

    pessitheghost Well-Known Member

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    i said this in my suggestion, i would definitely love to see the cambridge lines and it serves like how reigate was on london to brighton, an alternate terminus so we can drive services from Kings X to Kings Lynn opening up more services
     
  11. pessitheghost

    pessitheghost Well-Known Member

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    Great Suggestion there mate, would love to see hornsey and bounds green and do some depot work round there
     
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  12. pessitheghost

    pessitheghost Well-Known Member

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    Also i would add the northern city line as an alternative terminii for the stoppers to and from welwyn/stevenage as a default and i would add the class 91 in with the pack as well because the 387 is already present in game if you own it, the Hertford Loop is a good DLC idea and for the much more seasoned railfans i would either choose a diesel legends of the east coast or something set in the early 90s
     
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  13. matt#4801

    matt#4801 Well-Known Member

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    Very good suggestion. Era-wise I will keep it modernish as has been suggested (and I would like a section of the ECML so much I will take any section in any era) so I would set it in mid to late 2019 so that we can have the 801, 700 and 717 on the services you said and then modify the HST into the LNER colours so that we can have this icon of the line and gives something different from the 801s which have become the face of the modern ECML.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2023
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  14. lucasfor49

    lucasfor49 Well-Known Member

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    Albeit for a little bit of fun how about we expand the dlc list a little: Legends of the ecml: Class 319 (replacing 700), hst and 91+ DVT
     
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  15. olly.smail

    olly.smail Well-Known Member

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    319s have never ran on the ecml so wouldn’t be prototypical
     
  16. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Bring it on and for class 700 it needs AP sounds or the ATS sounds which was used to fix the TSC sounds which were AC 395 444 DC. LNER also has the Class 800 on the route too
     
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  17. lucasfor49

    lucasfor49 Well-Known Member

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    Didn't they? I thought they did prior to 700's or is that just the cambridge part?
     
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  18. TrainGeek08

    TrainGeek08 Well-Known Member

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    You're probably thinking of the 317s ;)
     
  19. pessitheghost

    pessitheghost Well-Known Member

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    this was included in my suggestion i did 90s ecml and 80s ecml locos (when the 91 first entered service ) in the 90s and when the hsts were still relatively new in the 80s
     
  20. olly.smail

    olly.smail Well-Known Member

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    the ecml was originally not part of thameslink, it was operated by great northern using 321s, 317s and 365s. 319s went up the mml
     
  21. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    F06A48FA-8255-41CF-B556-C51A58FD422F.jpeg C5E0B5DF-0E1D-4FDC-A483-C8C92EB01374.jpeg 8C53B937-6DFD-402C-ACC4-76F0AC15D7EF.jpeg ABE8D554-FDA6-457C-A4B3-DF2949C13A57.jpeg 9C0446F7-314D-4919-AEF2-7B77FF4AF81A.jpeg

    So many bloody ECML threads I never know where to put stuff but I've got my first time on a 755
    I think it is today from pbo. Absolutely beautiful quiet and comfortable train, even on the fenland lines

    Old looking 154 i believe too.
    I never realised how many different types of trains ran out of pbo these days.
    DTG Matt if you ever get this one over the line please fill this line to buggery with variety .

    So much freight and passenger coming through here now with the new werrington underground tunnel and all the branch lines connecting Peterborough to Cambridge and Leicester

    Be a lovely route to connect up to these lines

    ;)
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2023
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  22. smugstarlord#4202

    smugstarlord#4202 Well-Known Member

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    Your from Peterborough?
     
  23. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I pass through regularly yes
     
  24. olly.smail

    olly.smail Well-Known Member

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    i am myself lol
     
  25. smugstarlord#4202

    smugstarlord#4202 Well-Known Member

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    Same. Grew up next to the nene valley railway. Respect
     
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  26. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    We will have to bang the drum more then. I see Gresley is heading to nene valley soon. I wish we had more heritage lines local.

    I was at pbo today and impressed with the variety of trains. I also loved the 755 I went on. So smooth and comfortable
     
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  27. matt#4801

    matt#4801 Well-Known Member

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    I work on the ECML and live along the section between Grantham and Peterborough and I can say for sure that the variety of trains and liveries passing by my house, particularly in the peak times, is much greater that it was 10 or even 5 years ago.

    Yes it is also nice to see Gresley at the NVR: should be good for their finances as I'd imagine there won't be many tickets going spare!
     
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  28. pessitheghost

    pessitheghost Well-Known Member

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    yep, the railway is extensively diverse, almost as diverse as the 80s
     
  29. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure if you can railfan at the station. I saw a chap there with a book today but sorry you have to buy something ticket wise to get platform access. I was thinking I'd go and sit there for an hour sometime.

    Nice to know there's some locals here
     
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  30. olly.smail

    olly.smail Well-Known Member

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    somehow i haven’t ever gone to or on the nene valley despite living here for over a year and a half now, i’m always at PBO tho
     
  31. darkwarrior#2896

    darkwarrior#2896 Well-Known Member

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    In my own reason? I don't think having DLC price at $39.99 I think going back to a price of $25.99 I just think that's too much money for a DLC. Why if it was priced priced at $21.99 because dovetail would earn a lot more money back. Depending on how many people would buy the DLC and second reason it wouldn't be too expensive then people what happily pay money for the DLC if they so wish I think dovetail games shouldn't price DLCs on what people tell them to do. They should do it on how they should think it should be priced? If the price was between $21 to $25.99 then dovetail would get good money back? (That's just my opinion)
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2023
  32. olly.smail

    olly.smail Well-Known Member

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    Hi everyone, as i’m pretty bored i’ve decided to make up some scenarios for this route so i have done so for each of the 3 trains that come with the route as standard and i’m now typing up the DLC Scenarios.:)
     
  33. olly.smail

    olly.smail Well-Known Member

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    ECML South Scenarios - Class 801

    Autumn Azuming - Difficulty Lvl 2

    On this mild autumn afternoon, take this Lner Azuma 801 9 coach train from Peterborough to London Kings Cross, non stop. You’ll have a clear path most of the way, just be prepared to slow after stevenage as the welwyn bottle neck may catch you out. As it’s leaf fall season, the rails may be slippy so be careful on the brakes.


    Emergency Engineerings - Difficulty Lvl 3

    Due to emergency engineering works taking place on the up and down fast lines between sandy and st neots, all trains are being routed via the slow lines. This means you will be following stopping services aswell as other traffic along the way. You will be held outside of sandy in your 10 Coach 801 to let a Thameslink train due it’s duties before following it to St neots.


    East Coasting - Difficulty Lvl 1

    On an unusually hot summers day, you’ve been assigned a Class 801/2 on an ECS into Kings across from Bounds Green, where you’ll then change ends and make the non stop journey to Peterborough where another driver will take charge. Clear aspects aplenty.


    Hitching a ride - Difficulty Lvl 4

    Due to a broken down Azuma on the down fast line at Hitchin Station, you’ve been asked to go rescue this 9 car unit on your run down to Kings Cross. Starting at Peterborough, you’ll make your way down to London as usual, until you reach just outside of hitchin station where the signaller will advise you on how to couple up to the broken down unit. You will then be required to drive both units down to stevenage,where you will stop and allow the passengers on the broken down unit to board your train. You’ll then decouple and continue as scheduled, albeit it slightly late. The broken down unit will later be rescued via a Thunderbird Loco.
     
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  34. olly.smail

    olly.smail Well-Known Member

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    ECML South Scenarios - Class 700

    Abbreviated Formations - Difficulty Lvl 2

    Due to strikes the day previous, trains are in places they may not normally be. A result of this is is that you will be driving a 700/0 today rather than a 700/1 on midday service from Cambridge to Kings Cross, starting at a signal just outside of Hitchin Junction. You may be held outside of Finsbury Park due to earlier delays on the inner (717) services.



    Crisp Commuting - Difficulty Lvl 3

    It’s a frosty november morning and you’re taking charge of this semi-fast 700/1 rush hour commuter service from Peterborough to Kings Cross making stops at only Huntingdon, St neots, Biggleswade and Kings cross. Rail conditions may be icy, so be weary of your driving, and the closer you get to london, the intenser the traffic gets so ensure you’re on the ball with the signals.



    Delightful Desiro - Difficulty Lvl 1

    It’s a sunny spring day and you’ve been assigned the mid afternoon service from Sevenoaks to Welwyn Garden City, and you’ll be taking charge from St Pancras International and making all necessary stops along the way. Traffic is fairly busy however you should have a nice clear path.



    We Thank You - Difficulty Lvl 2

    To show appreciation to the NHS workers during the Covid lockdowns, Thameslink have reliveried unit 700111 into a special Thank you livery. You’re lucky enough to be the first one to drive it after it’s new livery was applied, starting at Hornsey Depot where you’ll need to shunt it around before heading up to Peterborough Spital Sidings on an ECS run ready for tomorrows services to and through the capital.
     
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  35. olly.smail

    olly.smail Well-Known Member

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    ECML South Scenarios - Class 717

    Essential Inners - Difficulty Lvl 2

    Take this Class 717 unit on the remaining stretch of its run from Finsbury Park to Welwyn Garden City making all stops along the way. Traffic is busy as it’s just nearing rush hour so watch those signals and ensure you stick to time so you don’t cause delays.


    Transcendent Testings - Difficulty Lvl 3

    Today you’ve been assigned a unique selection of workings. Today Great Northern are taking a pair of Class 717 units from Hornsey Depot up to Peterborough Nene Carriage Sidings and then back , and you’ll be driving them both. You’ll be routed on the fast lines on the way there despite being limited to 85mph, and on the way back you may find yourself on the slows as a late running azuma attempts to make up time. Weather wise, down in london it’s nice and sunny, although on your journeys you make experience some thundery showers as forecasted so be aware of a quick change in driving.



    Dual Deliveries - Difficulty Lvl 1

    It’s late at night (or early in the morning if you will) and you’re delivering the final pair of Class 717s to Hornsey Depot from Dollands Moor. Starting at a deserted st pancras you’ll drive these units to Hornsey Depot where you’ll then shunt them around into the the maintenance sheds for checks the next day. As it’s early in the morning, there’s little to no traffic about apart from a few freight workings, meaning clear aspects all the way to the depot.


    Stormy StormTrooping - Difficulty Lvl 2

    It’s a stormy winters morning and you’re responsible for bringing this 717 out of the sidings at welwyn and then taking it as far as Finsbury Park on its morning commuter service. There is a potential of hazards on the track due to high winds and heavy rainfall so keep your eyes pealed. As mother nature is causing disruption, delays are likely so be prepared for adverse signals on your journey.
     
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  36. olly.smail

    olly.smail Well-Known Member

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    ECML South Scenarios - DLC Class 91 (IC225)

    Extravagant Electra - Difficulty Lvl 1

    It’s a clear spring day, and you’re lucky enough to be in charge of this Lner Intercity 225 service down to the Cross from Peterborough, non stop down the east coast. Clear signals aplenty, with the only worry being it may get a little cloudier later, so goodbye to the nice sun.


    Testing Two Two Five - Difficulty Lvl 2

    It’s a special day for ECML fans and locals. Today will see the first ever Class 91 reaching 225km/h (140mph) on this special test run to Peterborough starting at Ferme Park, heading up to stevenage to collect special passengers then racing up to PBO at a speed not seen often on this route. Many enthusiasts and journalists will be out today so make sure to give some tones as you pass stations and bridges.


    Outstanding Oxblood - Difficulty Lvl 1

    On this chilly winter morning you will be driving this wonderful Oxblood intercity liveried 91 + MK4 + DVT set down to the cross calling at stevenage along the way. You should have a clear path throughout so enjoy the journey.


    Bounds’ Blunts - Difficulty Lvl 3

    Due to a loco failure on the original 91 assigned for this journey, another one has been sent down to haul this one up the mainline. Take this set into Kings Cross from Bounds Green in the DVT where you’ll then change ends and drive the blunt end 91 up to Peterborough non stop. Remember though, as it’s blunt end you’ll be limited to 110mph on todays trip rather than the usual 125. There’s a light drizzle this afternoon so be careful on the power.
     
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  37. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Regarding 700111 NHS it's made for tsc by ats
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2023
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  38. matt#4801

    matt#4801 Well-Known Member

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    All of these scenarios look quite interesting and would distinctly different from the the timetable.

    Hate to burst a bubble as it would be an interesting (and rather nail biting) scenario due to the section of the line it would take place on but when first built in the late 80s a 91 went just over 160mph down stoke bank so it wouldn't be the first to exceed 140mph by any means!

    This scenario would be even better on a Peterborough to York ECML route which would include stoke.
     
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  39. olly.smail

    olly.smail Well-Known Member

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    think i meant to put reach 140 for the first time in age’s:D but yes i agree it would suit a PBO-YRK route more
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2023
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