More Focus On Improving Sounds Please

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by londonmidland, Mar 17, 2022.

  1. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Recording is about 1/4 of the work to get sounds working. They can get sounds from AP and still not have a decent output...
     
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  2. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    yeah just listen to Rivets 150.
     
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  3. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    I can’t listen to it anymore. It just breaks my heart to hear what they’ve done to that thing :( One of my favourite DMU’s ruined
     
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  4. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Same here. I recently purchased WCL to test it out myself, to only refund it almost immediately.

    Rivet have well and truly screwed the Class 150 up, both in the physics and sound department. Such a shame as it was one of my favourite trains to drive in TSC.
     
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  5. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah they clearly got their feedback. For me the 150 is also too generic. No working guard panels, similar to the br cl.101 the 150 has a "local" start/stop functionality from the outside.
    While dtg has implemented all this, rivet goes straight back to the tsxx cab only era.

    The new swiss route is like the opposite, i see a true passion behind creating the luzern - sursee dlc. The flirt is not tsg level, but a solid train for tsw above the bare minimum.

    Every tsw developer should know tsw needs good rolling stock. The sim is on a point where its possible to make routes busy and with a high variety.
    So going the extra mile in locos is definetly worth it, since your loco might appear in a other dlc.

    Right now the 150 is a nice little a.i train, but im not interested in driving it to get a half hearted experience.
    I hope rivet makes an update for wcl, the route and its trains have huge potential.

    I suggest to make it similar to arosa with a planned expansion pack. So the wcl update is free for everybody, but the expansion dlc would add the falmouth branch or more of the china clay section. Devs really need to start using the potential of their routes..
     
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  6. dbrunner#4864

    dbrunner#4864 Well-Known Member

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    Have you tried this?
    https://www.trainsimcommunity.com/m...d-2/c20-sounds/i2386-class-150-mini-sound-mod

    I don't have the route but I use a lot of sound mods for other trains and it totally changed my audio experience as in many cases the mods are far superior to the stock generic sounds.
     
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  7. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    I know how you feel since that's the same way I feel about the Br 204. Beautiful loco with lots of potential but absolutely ruined (for me) by the completely wrong physics.
     
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  8. nhilsubsolenovum

    nhilsubsolenovum Member

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    Rivet = cheap beans, 10p cola, cold chips, leaking roof, smelly socks

    Fix the 150

    & be = A double 99 with raspberry ripple, the sweet smell of a weekend, James Brown's funky shoes
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2022
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  9. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you - yes it’s a very slight improvement but still so much missing, the physics are just off the wall. Totally un-drivable unfortunately :(

    written the thing off as I don’t expect rivet care enough to actually listen to the feedback provided if I’m honest
     
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  10. QNS Chris

    QNS Chris Well-Known Member

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    Where the hell is DTG on this thread? This topic keeps popping up, and they are nowhere to be found. This is a BASIC issue, and while the modding community has stepped in to fill the gap (huge thanks and bravo to you all!!!), as many have stated, the game shouldn’t have to be modded in order to function well. Come on. OpenBVE has better sounds in some cases.
    Fix. This. Please.
     
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  11. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately it seems they just choose to ignore threads like these and just want to respond to one’s which are ‘non-critical’. Despite the popularity of the thread, there hasn’t been a single response from DTG. Says it all really.

    Sound has been a major issue with TSW since day one, and it needs serious improvements, yet there’s been little to no commitment in doing so.
     
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  12. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    Oh wow,I didn't know that they made these changes. Looks like this will be the last time I am going to buy their product, until to us what the community wants, I am going to stop buying their product. :|
     
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  13. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    What I've actually found surprising is that they do get authentic sounds. So for example the flange sounds on the class 377, 387 and the Budd M3A to name a few. Yet they aren't implemented properly. Some sound mods like the ones for the Budd M3A and the Bombardier M7A EMU are just sounds that are were in the sound files of these trains but weren't implemented in the game. Why can't DTG implement these sounds themselves if they already have them. It makes no sense and makes it feel like they are just rushing the product out the door.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2022
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  14. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I mean if they did respond, they will probably pull the "We understand your frustration" crap.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2022
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  15. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    That’s an interesting point. If the sounds are there and actually exist in the game, why the feck aren’t they used effectively? I can’t get my head around that. Maybe I’m dim?.
     
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  16. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure it'll be a limitation excuse only 32 channels, consoles will stop working etc, or some such thing. roll-on UE5. Oh, wait that'll still have limited channels.
     
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  17. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    For me DTG should stop trying to do the Audio and use companies like AP or others that show they ca mix sounds to a high level. If DTG still come out with 'we hope to get at a higher level' then they should stop doing their own sound until they reach that level. I'm sure customers would appreciate it.
     
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  18. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    For the zillionth time, AP does not mix sounds for TSW. They do no work in UE at all. All they do is provide raw sound files.
     
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  19. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    I didn't say they did I said they should do. AP have a proven track record in mixing sound and imo would do a better job than what we have at the moment. I do not see UE being a barrier to them.
     
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  20. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    AP have shown no interest in doing any TSW work. And, yes, even they would find dropping from 256 sound channels to 32 a challenge.
     
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  21. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    Didn't they say a while back in answer to a forum members questionnaire that they would be open to it if approached? Cold be wrong of course, would be a nice earner for them no?
     
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  22. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Not to bump this thread up or anything but when can we expect some sort of reverb sounds in tunnels and cuttings, or the ‘roar’ of the track as it goes over steel bridges?

    I cannot believe we still only have literally one ‘running’ sound of the train, for the entirety of its route. It’s like running a train through an empty field from start to end.

    Surely it isn’t hard to set up reverb in tunnels by default, so you don’t have to manually add it to each and every tunnel when placing it? TSC isn’t perfect but it’s miles better at giving the correct terrain sounds based on where you are and/or what you are travelling over.

    Sounds have and are being constantly neglected in TSW and it’s sad to see that there’s not been any push in trying to make them better/sound more realistic. I see no improvement to station ambient sounds either, as they quite literally sound like ghost towns.

    Come on guys, you’ve had years to sort this out. There really is no excuse for the poor sounds anymore.
     
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  23. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    DTG need a new approach to sound. They need a system that can handle more sounds. It has to be the next core improvement even if it means all old DLC will need an upgrade to be compatible with it. That issue gets worse the longer they leave it. There must be plugins or systems available that will work with UE4 that can handle what is needed and they should be used, because DTG can’t currently fit all of the required sound into the game and have it work properly on all platforms. If there isn’t anything suitable available I’d be very surprised.
     
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  24. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    I agree, they have to use the oportunity to develop something like simmugraph, just for sounds. 32 channels might be enough for call of duty, but not for a simulation where accurate sounds and immersion are fundamental.

    The sooner they start to solve this, the better. The amount of rolling stock is increasing, and ignoring this doesnt solve anything.

    Sounds are connected with simmugraph as far i understood, so yes there will be a ton of afterwork when they consider updating every loco.

    This is another perfect example of a short sighted decision, grew to a bold monster which probably cant be solved anymore by now.
    The sound is a huge part of one pile out of the entire structure. If you finished the roof of a house you cant change the foundation by taking a rubber and pencil.

    That, and only that is the true reason they keep shut about everything related to sounds (activly ignore threads). This major mistake by thinking 32 channels are enough, would mean going for a entire new sound approach. Good luck with rework all the simmugraphed locos.

    As i realised the limits of tsw2 about sounds i got the point of a forum member 1 year ago : "they choose the wrong engine for tsw2..."

    But looking at the limit, at least they get the best out of it whats possible. Nice to have real sound recordings etc.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2022
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  25. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    The lack of enhanced movement sounds is only surpassed by DTG’s abject silence on the matter.
     
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  26. QNS Chris

    QNS Chris Well-Known Member

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    This. They have the tunnel reverb on Bakerloo (to a degree) and the same was present on TSW1 LIRR (why it disappeared in the Preserved Collection, I have no idea). To your point about bridges, cuttings, viaducts - this desperately needs to be developed and integrated. Not to belabor comparisons to OpenBVE, but OpenBVE has this sound functionality baked in.

    Additionally, the flange sounds (or seemingly random lack thereof) need to be consistent with curves and the sounds themselves need to be varied as well (as opposed to recycled). To give one example out of many, the M3A on MNR barely makes a peep on the northern end of the route as the train passes through the interlocking from the yard to North White Plains, in addition to many other curves throughout the route. What gives? The M7A makes flange noises at the exactly the same points where the M3A lacks it. Great sound overall for both locos, but the lack of flange noise for the M3A makes it difficult for me to play, as the flange noise, to me, is one of the most rewarding and immersive sounds in any railroading simulation.

    Perhaps a dedicated team to solve this issue? This hypothetical effort will certainly take time and resources, but speaking personally, my play time on TSW2 has dramatically decreased, as has my appetite to purchase new DLC until the issue has been, at the very least, acknowledged and addressed.
     
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  27. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with this and the others above. This situation they are in seems self inflicted in a way do to a lack of hindsight. They keep churning out DLC's yet don't go out to expand the core so to speak. These core updates don't really make major changes to the overall experience in my opinion. The update from 4.23 to 4.26 didn't really make much changes apart from really allowing current gen consoles to be on par to the PC version.

    UE4 may have been a good decision, but if the limited sound issues are really the problem, then it shows dtg's lack of hindsight. It's kinda the situation with route extensions/mergers. If they extend routes or merge them, it may break many things and more work will have to be done to quell those problems. If DTG try to update every loco to add reverb and other sounds, alot of work would have to be done. The lack of hindsight is baffling but at least they try to get the best sound recordings that they can.

    Although, there are routes like Bakerloo and LIRR that do have reverb sounds in the tunnels. There are routes that have track noise going through points and the screeching when going through curves so I don't think the 32 sound channel limit is part of the problem but more down to how DTG implement the sounds or in this case how DTG don't implement the sounds for some reason. Look at the sound mods for the M7A, M3A, Class 377/387. Those mods use sounds found in the files of these trains but for some reason aren't implemented in the final product.

    It would be nice if DTG were to respond instead of ignoring and saying they will improve. Whilst they don't have to but they have had 5 years to improve in this area and frankly they seem to be going backwards
     
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  28. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    To me you can have nice looking trains but if the sound is lacking it takes away from the experience. I never got into TS1 but from some of the video's I have seen the sound seems superior. If the UE is at fault I wonder if DTG regret going down that route?
     
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  29. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    With TSxx of old there was a big deal made of EAX and routes were wonderfully immersive in their sounds then over a period of time it became all too much of a time-consuming pita for the devs and the flywheel policy at DtG, and routes correspondingly became sonically dead with an inexplicable addition to the core of joint sounds at every over and under bridge plus tunnels! But worst of all the deadness of the sonic world philosophy has carried on over to the TSW series, I am so glad that not only a modicum of community members but also Sam has raised the banner for better and more immersive audio as LM has pointed out. Real railways are noisy and sonically diverse.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2022
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  30. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    No, because sound was never a priority.
     
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  31. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    TS1 or rather TSC as it’s now known, sound is far superior to TSW in just about every way. I took the Bossman Jubilee for a run down my Raquette Railroad that I made way back, full of sharp curves and gradients and the thing was bouncing and squealing away as it negotiated the bends. It actually conveyed the sensation of driving a 100+ ton mechanical beast along steel rails. Not just SoS, which so far as I’m concerned is going on the at least 50% off sale time list, but many TSW titles simply lack in the audio - Rapid Transit being the worst example.
     
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