Okey, so I have a question. With bad weather, winter conditions, cold tracks and PZB turned on heavy freight with only one loco, how are trains getting up that hill and reaching the tunnel just before Heigenbrucken without risking losing all the speed and literally stopping while still climbing? I'm hitting the ramp with as close to 105km/h, without getting warning lamp to slow down. I can't have more than 60% on the throttle uphill otherwise I'm losing traction, which slows me down even further. With a PZB signal on top, that forces me to get below 45km/h while climbing, this entire climb becomes a very risky endeavour! I just did a test where I didn't slow down fast enough below 45km/h and was forced into a stop. There's no chance to get this train moving again. Even with the throttle at 55%, after a minute, the train starts rolling down the hill. Now, I AM able to get to the top, but I'm barely rolling at 30-35km/h when I reach level ground. Is this how it's done for real or are freight trains exempt from using PZB up the hill or something? Seems extremely risky in cold weather conditions!
They are of course not exempt from using PZB. It takes some getting used to and practice. As you state, you do make it to the top and this is what they do irl too. If they do get stuck (and it does happen) they need to get a 2nd loco to push them up the hill. What is done irl is that heavy trains have a guaranteed way up without having to stop. But, as this steep hill caused too many operational hurdles, this is why they have build a tunnel. Today this looks completely different and the ramp is no longer existent…
For routes with steep grades, you'd be given a banker for pushing you up the hill. On the Spessartrampe, this was usually done by the powerful BR 151 manned helper locos pushing you while under a limit of 60 km/h. 151 032 at Laufach station, waiting for a train to be pushed up the Spessart ramp. The last pushing loco on the old Spessartrampe was in service in 2017. "An era ends: pushing service on the Spessart ramp is discontinued" Source: main-echo.de
There's a nice scenario where you have to drive a double headed tanker consist to Laufach. You'll stop there and wait for the banking loco to couple up. Once it is done, you're on your way to the ramp. Yes, it gets quite slow. And you'll have to be close friend to your sander. Try it out, it's good fun.
Thanks for filling in the details on how this was done back in the day. Appreciate it! Indeed, getting up the hill seems to vary heavily on whether you are signaled or not. Without getting a signal I reach the top with about 30ish km, which is OK. But with a signal halfway through, I'm seriously struggling to break level line.
This is one of the cool things with this game and this community! Love dropping by here and asking questions related to the real world things in the game!
Fun! Looking forward to it. I assume it's the Banker scenario, as I believe that's the only one I'm missing on MSB!
Nah! All good. I'm just about finishing the freight Journey on MSB, that's what made me create this post, as the last 3 services in this journey are with crappy winter conditions, and 2 of them are up the Spessartrampe. So in a few runs I should be doing the Banker scenario! Looking forward to it!
Just finished the Fuel Exchange scenario. Fun run. With the banker pushing from behind the train could even gain speed up the hill even with that massive load! I was using the sander . Have to admit, that the hardest part with these big heavy freight loads is managing the breaking system, especially when coming down to a precise stop. On the side note, this scenario has one of the best weather settings; clear sunny sky with lots of snow. I'm playing TSW2, and even here the scenery just looks jawdropping!
Google Earth allows you viewing the old Ramp before the tunnel was built by using the timeline feature. Here's what appears to be a banking loco just about to couple up to an eastbound train. Interestingly, the image date given is 01/01/2009, which can't be correct due to the very short midsummer shadows. Must have been taken in June or July.
Let me join in thanking you for the enriching information from real operation, it’s so interesting to have experience enriched like this. I enjoyed those challenging rides on MSB a lot, also thanks for the tip with trying BR155 with tankers (some services on journey mode I guess?)
Heeeeey! This is sooo cool! Awesome! That's from Laufach station irl. Yeah, thanks again for providing all this rl correlation.
I'll probably give it a go once I've completed everything on MSB. But another question regarding heavy freights. PZB will cap the speed of freights to 105km. When hauling big cargo with 2 locos, what speed is usually accepted irl? Because when getting signaled, reducing speed from even 80km/h down to below 55km/h is hard without breaking too hard where the train almost comes to a halt. Otherwise, breaking smoothly won't bring the speed below 55 in time. Is there some other "limit" that these heavy freight operate with? Thanks!
Look no further than my signature. There is not some other limit, there are various other limits to consider (granted, TSW doesn't tell you about any of them). There are calculations to be done (as explained in my post I linked) to determine your maximum permitted speed. There is no simple answer to give you except doing the calculations or using one of the community-made tools to make them for you. In doubt, I don't think there is a freight train in TSW with a top speed lower than 90km/h. As an aside: 105km/h is when PZB stops you in mode U. You should not exceed 100km/h in mode U. (Same for mode M - do not exceed 120km/h).
Thanks for this! I felt that there seems to be something off with these speed limits when driving freight trains. The distance needed to slow down these trains to a comfortable stop is massive, and doing it from 100km seems to be an overstretch even if it's a game, not to mention having to reduce the speed to under 55km/h in 500m.
Normally you would drive way below the PZB limit, especially on routes with grades, and sharing the track with stopping commuters. Running a heavy train in U at 100 km/h on such a route will result in penalty brakings. I would run it at a max of 80 km/h generally, and M trains at 100 km/h is pretty realistic (120 is ok for flat routes with dedicated freight tracks or high speed), that's also valid on Vorarlberg. If you run at the PZB maximum, you will constantly be in PZB supervision, and drive stop & go, which is to be avoided for economical reasons. Better to find the speed for a perfect flow (which is given in your timetable IRL) to "swim" with the stopping services in front of you.
I'd say M trains usually run at rather 90-95 km/h, at least on the mostly hilly routes we have in the sim. Freight trains also usually have timetables with much more leeway than passenger trains, so there is no reason to hug even that limit all the time. If you are closing in to a large station where you expect to be slowed down or stopped, feel free to trade few dozen seconds for being off throttle and coast a bit so that you are ready to go into e-brake already when you see the restrictive distant signal in front of you, not only after you already passed it and entered the monitoring. If you are hugging the speed limit, then any change in inclination with heavy freight means you start overspeeding it very quickly, which then leads to panic braking with air brake, which takes very long time to propagate and start being effective, and same long time to then release it again. Try to practice using electrodynamic brake which goes in and out of effect much faster (and ecologically returns energy into the grid!), and if you stay 3-5 km/h under your limit, you can see the train gaining speed in much greater advance. Air brake with freight is primarily used to quickly reduce speed if you failed to predict the need for doing so; to stop the train eventually (EDB does not work in low speeds) or when the adhesion conditions are too bad and the loco braking alone would slip too easily. The tools in my signature can help you master freights a long way, both the calculator for speeds and brake settings, and the timetables that give you advance insight into where to expect low track speeds.
Really appreciate indepth explanation on this one! I am not going to lie, it's hard managing the breaking system, especially on those very heavy services. I've learned simply to drive slow and coast. For MSB route I'm simply keeping around 80, and as you pointed out, put on the breaks long before I pass the signal.
