PC Multiplayer For Tsw?

Discussion in 'Train Sim World Discussion' started by DANtheWALLY, Aug 17, 2022.

  1. DANtheWALLY

    DANtheWALLY Member

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    Okay so I'm not here to discuss multiplayer but if you'd like to say your thoughts on it please do.
    I'm just very confused because during the stream yesterday multiplayer was mentioned and I just want some proper answer from dtg if it may happen in the future or there is absolutely no plans at all to ever develop multiplayer for Tsw, (I know there's no plans for it on tsw3).
     
  2. spicemaster

    spicemaster Member

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    Its a highly requested feature, for as long as i can remember, they promised time and time again to add it to train sim classic and never did, even putting a timeline in place as to when it would of been implemented, then they just went quiet. typical dtg, they just say things and then go back on it.
     
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  3. Inkar

    Inkar Well-Known Member

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    Nope. Contrary to what you might think, each time that DTG makes a survey about what features the players want multiplayer appears at the bottom of the list.

    Edit: The not requested feature is actually VR, not multiplayer. Not deleting this post because there are other posts related to it below.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2022
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  4. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    Just think about the fact that your player character is never visible unless seated. There is no 3rd person animation to walk them to a train, climb aboard, interact with the doors, windows, controls etc. Even without multiplayer this would take ages to create and then they would have to add all the code so you can see other people's avatars and what they are doing in real time. Never mind the dispatcher coping with all the movements of trains.

    When they add 3rd person view other than in the drivers seat and you can see your character is completely animated then you will know it is a little more feasible, even if only in the training area.
     
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  5. tbaac

    tbaac Well-Known Member

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    I'd tried multiplayer in Run8, and it was okay. I've tried it in SCR and there, it was a lot more fun due to the opportunity to take on different roles (dispatcher, guard, driver, signaller etc.). But TSW would need a massive re-write to make those roles playable I think. Also, Run8 and SCR are both fairly small communities I think, capable of self-policing. Multiplayer in TSW might work on private servers I guess if it was possible, but I don't see it happening.

    And I think you're over-egging it slightly by saying that "Dovetail promised and promised". Matt, with the best intentions, said that it was a feature that they'd like to put in the game and that they were working on it. I doubt that DTG decided not to bother putting it in just to annoy us.

    And SCR has strengths in other areas. As I've heard DadRail say I think, it is more of a railway simulator, rather than a train simulator.
     
  6. Pinguinie

    Pinguinie Active Member

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    Thats wrong.


    In the last survey, the MP didn't appear at all because it was the highest valued feature.
    For years. After that, only the role system came in the last survey.
     
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  7. Inkar

    Inkar Well-Known Member

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    I think you are correct. IIRC the not requested one was actually VR now that I think of it.
     
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  8. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Search for DTG protagonist posts.

    that's your answer. Was in the last week or two if I recollect correct and along the lines if I remember and to be succinct, not happening.
     
  9. tbaac

    tbaac Well-Known Member

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    Also, the dispatcher. If the dispatcher in TSW isn't dynamic (as has been asserted on here recently) then having multiple player trains sounds like it is asking for trouble (as they are likely to be more variable than AI trains which don't drive too slowly or go and get a cup of coffee for example).

    If it is the case that the dispatcher isn't dynamic then presumably that is either quite difficult to do, and/or has some downsides when compared to the fixed version.

    edit: iirc, SCR has player(s) acting as signaller, and in Run8 it is a semi-manual process.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2022
  10. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Creative Director Staff Member

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    Really close. Each time that DTG makes a survey about the features player want, multiplayer comes out top. Every time. That's why, in the last one I ran I didn't include it as it was a foregone conclusion. VR finishes bottom - but that's purely because the people most likely to vote for it as anything other than bottom will own a VR headset already.

    We'd very much like to include multiplayer in TSW, and have had a development team exploring the idea for a significant length of time but it doesn't work. The number of core features (including physics elements) that have to be disabled to make it function render it not worth playing. As such, multiplayer is never likely to appear in TSW.

    The fact is that to make a multiplayer game of any kind viable it should be built as a multiplayer game with the single player experience effectively one-player multiplayer.

    That said, split-screen or local co-op isn't the same proposition, but it's not something we're working on.
     
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  11. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    Railraods online is multiplayer and there it may work at a certain point. For TSW it will be hard. You can never rely on other players to continue to play for a complete service. How would you divide tasks? The only things I can see for multiplayer is the roles of conductor or fireman. Driving separated trains in the same environment is not very much fun, you see each other one, so why do it? You also would need to have exactly the same DLC collection and playing together cross platform would even be more difficult.

    Railroads online is much simpler in many aspects. You can drive a train with multiple people, one driving, another one switching, coupling, decoupling and so on. It is narrow gauge and nothing is automated. Or one person could load trains at a station and do some shunting while another person would drive the long distance. This makes multiplayer make a bit of sense up to say 4-5 people.. If you want multiplayer, I would like to see you describe a scenario for this quite detailed. What do you expect from it and do you think this will ever work.

    I have seen this point many times but as far as I know, nobody came with enough details to have a starting point for creating something that does multiplayer. It is far to vague to build anything on the term multiplayer, it should be far more specific for any developer to create something that makes sense and meets expectations. I can know, I have worked in software development an number of years.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2022
  12. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    This should be made into a pinned post or put into FAQ for TSW. It’s better than having people think that it could happen soon.
     
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  13. Inkar

    Inkar Well-Known Member

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    Yep, for some reason I made a switch in my head between multiplayer and VR and didnt notice until Pinguinie made me think again.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2022
  14. Ferrovipathe67

    Ferrovipathe67 Well-Known Member

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    and for an route and trains editor for me this is the most credible thing do you have any news?
     
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  15. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    You could rename TSW to “This train simulator has no multiplayer” and people will still ask for multiplayer.

    We just live in an age where gamers want multiplayer for everything, regardless of it being pointless or not.
     
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  16. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I suppose if you want to play games where you can play with your mates or random other people then that is only natural to want it in all your games. You are right about people asking for it even when it is obvious it’s not getting it, that would still happen.
     
  17. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    The desire for multiplayer in TSW is never going away. Younger players, in particular, see it as a natural part of gaming, whether it's RPG, FPS, RTG or simulation.
    If DTG made a definitive statement that multiplayer is never coming to TSW, that might quell the demand, but they can't do that for obvious marketing reasons. The idea is just too popular. And, who knows, it might happen one day. I hope not, but I wouldn't rule it out.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2022
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  18. AVeryFatElf

    AVeryFatElf Active Member

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    I keep hearing people harp on about these "polls" but DTG never do a great job in informing everyone and it seems to be people who hang about on these forums enough to see announcements like that. I don't remember ever seeing anything in TS/TSW or Steam about taking part in a poll. Naturally, that will swing a poll in a particular direction IMHO if its in one location or advertised in one location.
     
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  19. Inkar

    Inkar Well-Known Member

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    Last time they posted it in Dovetail Live, in the same place you would look for the roadmaps and other TSW news.
     
  20. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Sign up for emails from DTG. You should hear about the surveys that way. If you are already signed up to emails then read the emails when they come through. It’s all too easy to skip past the ones with the details of the surveys in. I did that last time but found out about it here or on the website anyway.
     
  21. DANtheWALLY

    DANtheWALLY Member

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    Well thanks for replying and talking about it. I think this post should be pinned somewhere just to make the community aware that multiplayer is never likely to come to tsw so we shouldn't expect it.
     
  22. DANtheWALLY

    DANtheWALLY Member

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    Yeah railroads online is definitely something I'd like to play just don't have access to play it. That's why tsw has been better for me because it's one of the few train sim games on console.
     
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  23. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Creative Director Staff Member

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    The last one we did was publicised on Dovetail Live, via the forums, via the newsletter and on all our social media media channels. As a result we had close to 10,000 responses.
     
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  24. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but be warned. At the moment it is a mess with this game due to internal issues in the dev team, so do not buy it now.
     
  25. a.paice

    a.paice Well-Known Member

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    I don’t really understand what value is to be gained with multiplayer. It’s going to be the same experience just with the knowledge that other people are controlling the trains.
    On top of that’s they’ll probably be operating them badly.
    Why would anyone want that?

    I can understand maybe a signaller mode being interesting but that would be better with Ai trains rather than real people. Ai train drivers don’t nip to the toilet or have a bad connection.
     
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  26. AVeryFatElf

    AVeryFatElf Active Member

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    Despite that, we have VATSIM for Flight Sims, regardless of toilet breaks and poor connections.
     
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  27. a.paice

    a.paice Well-Known Member

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    I assume that’s a flight simulator multiplayer?

    I’d argue it’s a little different as flying an airplane requires interaction with the air traffic control and other pilots as a matter of procedure.
    If all is going to plan, most train drivers won’t speak to or see anyone all day.
    Not including socialising of course.

    If you wanted to have fun with your friends that is also possible when you are flying. You can race or do other things together. You wouldn’t be able to do anything on TSW apart from follow your friends red signals.

    Airplanes have another big advantage in that they can go around each other. On TSW you’d be at the mercy of whoever’s driving in front. You could be sat at a red signal for 30 minutes because the driver in front needs to eat his dinner before it gets cold. It just sounds like it would be a lucky dip whether you get a normal experience or a miserable one.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2022
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  28. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

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    It's a shame VR is so low on the list of desired features, because a basic stereoscopic rendering solution requires light years less development work than implementing actual networking, so it would be just exponentially more feasible. It'd be an easy win if a large enough proportion of those playing the game actually wanted it.
     
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  29. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    I definitely feel like there would be potential for VR in a train simulator. Being able to reach out and actually grab levers, switch buttons, and move your view in and around the cab is IMO a much more immersive experience than running into another real player via Multiplayer.
     
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  30. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

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    It was an absolute game-changer the first time I visited a friend's house and tried Elite: Dangerous on a Vive, with the exact model of HOTAS the ingame flight controls are modelled on. I could feel the controls in my hands exactly where they should be in the cockpit, and I had a full range of head movement and everything around me had real depth to it, so I could bend over and look under my chair if I wanted to!
     
  31. a.paice

    a.paice Well-Known Member

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    I probably wouldn’t use VR but combine that with some kind of chair that moves slightly in relation to what the train is experiencing in the game and I think you’ve created the ultimate immersion experience.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2022
  32. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    Wonder if it would be possible to program something like Buttkicker for a train sim? It is already used for racing and flight simulators.
     
  33. AVeryFatElf

    AVeryFatElf Active Member

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    A butt kicker might be what you're after for the time being. Not sure if a motion rig would be worth it for TS/TSW, bearing in mind there's no g-force to hold you in your chair when the train tilts
     
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  34. AVeryFatElf

    AVeryFatElf Active Member

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    If i remember correctly, a butt kicker can be or is tuned to whatever the output of your sound is, basically takes the bass frequencies and uses that as a way to translate vibration to your chair/rig
     
  35. AVeryFatElf

    AVeryFatElf Active Member

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    That would be the dream but it would be a big undertaking on DTG to do that regarding the controls and levers - THAT BEING SAID, I would settle for just having them activate the VR deployment through the UE4 engine and letting us move about and be able to sit in the cab - I can happily use my hands on the keyboard and if you've played TS/TSW long enough, the keys are muscle memory and at a further stretch, we could just use a gamepad.

    I genuinely think they are missing a MASSIVE opportunity by not implementing it regardless of polls. I said this before and I'll say it again but I just dont think the polls should be so heavily relied on. Every other Sim be that space to trucking to flight sims have implemented VR.
    Heck, there's even TramSim which implemented it off the bat even though it was a little janky to begin with.

    And i dont mean to sound ageist but I do feel like if there's an older majority demographic using these polls, then naturally they're not going to have a clue how much VR brings to the table. I wouldnt be surprised if it brough a lot of new customers who would buy the game for the novelty of being able to sit in a cab of a train.
     
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  36. DXR8002

    DXR8002 Well-Known Member

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    Good.
     
  37. stijn.claessens

    stijn.claessens Active Member

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    how would you deal with idiots in MP? if you look at MSFS and ETS2 than other players ruin the imersion.
     
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  38. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

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    I use a pad for all my VR gaming. I have zero ability to coordinate my limbs at a larger scale so motion controls are an alien impossibility to me. I can't even use a mouse to control shooters, my wrists jerk all over the place. I have perfect fine motor control in my digits though, and that's all I need.
     
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  39. nepclassof84

    nepclassof84 Well-Known Member

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    I have no desire for multiplayer.

    I have even less of a desire to sit at a red signal because someone is not running the train in the block ahead of me.
     
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  40. Luke8899

    Luke8899 Well-Known Member

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    A lot of modern multi-player games allow you to create private sessions where only invited friends of the host can join, or friends of their friends if invited. The model of multiplayer gameplay many people here seem to want only really works in this scenario, meaning unless you qualify to be in a group sufficiently assured of its members' commitment to play the game properly, you'll just end up with randoms who don't know how dispatching works or who drive through red lights for the fun of it.

    I've yet to hear any really compelling arguments for multiplayer in TSW. As a kind of sandbox environment you could drop in and out of, maybe it would be nice if you share the hobby with friends, but otherwise I can't see how the actual game side of things would work for most players encountering a multiplayer mode.
     
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  41. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    As I commented in one of the other MP threads, I tried it once in Run 8 and considered it an absolute waste of time.

    Served as nothing more than a chat room for the regular group of "foamers".

    When I tried to join in, I got stonewalled.

    The train I placed and subsequently parked up at Bakersfield with the intention of pushing on over Tehachapi and then either into LA or across to Seligman had been deleted when I next returned.

    And now Run 8 has its "Otto" AI despatcher (as surely any MP in TSW would have), no need even for a live person doing that.
     
  42. fakenham

    fakenham Well-Known Member

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    That's a shame to hear that. Was that on the public or Depot + server? I doubt it was the + server, because I believe you have to pass a test to run on it, so it would be more professional.

    A good example of multiplayer is with the Polish sim Train Driver 2, works v v well, but you have to know what you're doing! Mark from JT has an excellent video of it on his TrainSim TV channel if you want a few tips. I believe Simrail when it arrives will have similar mulitplayer.

    So what I'm getting at is that multiplayer can work in a train sim, it just needs to be set up well. Plus it would add some much needed variation in gameplay. If there was a random element in the timetable model (i.e trains running late etc), multiplayer would be less of a major plus for me.
     
  43. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Public server.

    I can see how some might enjoy it but for me solo player is the preferred way to enjoy a sim.
     
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  44. rpeterbroughlowe

    rpeterbroughlowe Active Member

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    Multiplayer = Just improve the dispatcher to become more dynamic and AI train behavior to be more dynamic also. Each service having a probability scaler (likelihood for running behind time (simulating late running), likelihood for actually running at all (simulating cancelled service). The last suggestion might not be too hard to do actually, even with the current system.



    VR = YES Please, I've been saying this for a while but I've finally accepted that we wont be getting this anytime soon, the work required won't merit it as it will only reward 5 - 10% of players at absolute best :( . But it would be awesome if done properly.
    A dev branch would probably be our only option, but given that it would be unstable and people would winge if it wasn't 100% reliable it's understandable why we can't be trusted!
     
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  45. fakenham

    fakenham Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I think you'll get more from operating in the Depot + server, you have an operations centre where you log in and can do locals etc, or pick up a train that someone left to finish a job... This video shows an example



    Haven't joined myself, but would like to when I have the time - you need to pass a driving test to use the server! I guess it makes sense as those heavy trains are hard to operate (due to the brilliant and realistic physics in Run8, DPU's etc).
     
  46. spicemaster

    spicemaster Member

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    This is just sad, Why is it on streams you say one thing and then all of a sudden someone from your company just quietly mentions its not being worked on?
    We were told that multiplayer was coming one day and now your saying its not coming, DTG full of empty promises and lies.
     
  47. SonicScott91

    SonicScott91 Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I can't see any element of TSW that would benefit from multiplayer. I'm not talking about hypothetical things like guards or signaller roles, they don't exist in the game and aren't coming unless DTG say otherwise in the future. I'm talking about the game as it is right now, there's not much of a reason to have multiplayer.
    All I can see it have players doing is driving past each other, going crazy with the horns/whistles or one person sitting in the second man's seat doing nothing while watching their friend driving or people trolling others by stopping at a random point on a route and causing a blockage. None of that sounds particularly interesting or fun... unless you're the type of player who loves to cause chaos for fellow drivers.

    If DTG do decide to expand what roles players can do in TSW, I can see more of a reason to include multiplayer. I'm not opposed to it coming to the game at some point but I don't think it's the right time for it now. There's still things to add to the single player experience.
     
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  48. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Creative Director Staff Member

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    On the topic of VR we know there is a massive appetite for it among those who already have the kit, and others may well be looking to jump in if the right title were available. So while multiplayer has to sit on a list labeled "very unlikely" the same can't be said of VR.
     
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  49. trainsimcz

    trainsimcz Well-Known Member

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    What is that ? Another way how to catch users to stick with TSW and buy for example TSW 3 with that talk about VR which will then be cancelled with TSW 5 ? Wonder how many users will really believe to that. Users should learn from past and stop trusting DTG until they really implement it... then after that players should buy the product if they were waiting for VR support.
     
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  50. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    Just another thing that DTG will implement with various issues, which aren’t their fault, because ‘reasons’.

    Can’t wait for another year of issues going unsolved, only for DTG to come out with “hey look what we’ve been working on for the last 12 months!”
     

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