Nec: Freight Speculation (done)

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by Challenger3985, May 6, 2021.

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  1. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    I know many have been excited about NEC from Boston to Providence. And a few that are hoping for some freight action on the line as well. So, I may as well see if it's possible to have freight on this line. (Feel free to talk about it as well)

    Services:
    While the Providence line is part of NEC (operated by both Amtrak and MBTA), CSX does also operate on the Massachuites side of the route for freight, mainly locals. And while there are some yards that are layovers by MBTA, CSX does have an actual yard at Readville that shares with MBTA in some parts (maintenance facility and overlay storage). And there are at least 4 services that operate from Readville to other lines:
    -B710: to Attleboro, which works on the Soughton Branch
    -B731: operating on the Farimgham Secondary Line, via Walpole
    -B732: to Walpole on the Franklin line
    -B733: all I got from this service was as an extra when needed

    Locos and Wagons:
    Now if this route has layered in freight, it would have to be from Sand Patch Grade (as the only CSX route in TSW2 by far). And since the line is mainly local, then the only loco that I would see fit (as accurate as possible) is the GP38-2.
    showimage.jpg
    Of course, CSX operates GP40-2s on the line. But since that loco hasn't been revived to TSW2 standards like the ACS-64 (one day though), the GP38 is the closest Geep to operate on.
    As for the rolling stock, the best guess after looking up what the customers are on and adjacent to the Providence Line, would just be your common boxcar and cover hoppers to pull along with (there's also center beams for the lumber, but that would also require another route to have them included. Which in result, more layers to be added in).

    So that is my thought on if freight is gonna be part of the new NEC. While it may not look like there's that much to play on, but it would have the same feel as NEC: NY had (more or less) or any other passenger-focus route that has a bit of freight to it. And maybe better, if lucky. But until more details on what's gonna be on this route (from Q&A Streams and Articles down the line, no pun intended), it's just speculation on what the freight side is gonna look like if included.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2021
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  2. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    I am looking forward to NEC coming back into TSW2 and hope will also include freight action as well.
     
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  3. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    Encouraged by the excellent treatment of freight, especially in regard to switching work, I'm strongly in favor of your predictions.
     
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  4. JGRudnick

    JGRudnick Well-Known Member

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    I too am hoping for some freight layers. The GP38-2 would be perfect to layer in. Is the SD40-2 prototypical to be layered in? If so, that would be neat too
     
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  5. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    I hope DTG take the opportunity to include these CSX services (and maybe some associated switching services). Would also provide a good setting for reintroducing the GP40-2, though everyone has the GP38-2, so would work either way.

    I really miss playing freight services from NEC:NY, as i think freight in an urban setting is great fun. There's opportunities for trainspotting as you go about your freight work- e.g. always enjoyed seeing the ACS-64 passing by Oak Point yard, there tend to be more grade-level crossings, and interesting little gradients, etc.

    The "real" NA Freight routes we have are very rural, except Oakville, which is hampered by it's lack of passenger services/low traffic volume, so having freight in NEC:Boston would be a nice contrast.
     
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  6. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    Steam description (for base version):
    My speculation (DLC) about a switcher: link \o/

    I don't know if this locomotive is used there :)
     
  7. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    From what I'm seeing from images so far, the GP40-2s are pretty common operating on and around the Providence line (especially in Readville Yard). Hence why the GP38 seems to be a suitable candidate for this route.
     
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  8. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    I‘m hoping for some freight action as well, either in the form of an SPG layer or with a GP40-2 DLC. I never played much NEC in TSW 2020 for both personal and in-game reasons, but I did enjoy the feeling of switching and servicing branch lines in a very urban environment a lot. It felt great to drive down to the pier with the NYC skyline in view.
     
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  9. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    From MBTA's roster, they do have at least 2 Gensets (3GS21B). But I don't think there were anywhere near the line, since there is a Maintenance Facility in Somerville which the Gensets are stationed there. And Readville acts as an Interim Repair Facility and layover storage for MBTA.
    But there is Amtrak's Southampton St. Yard. So, whatever switcher could operate there (if any at all), should be something as another add-on (or a layer of one) in the future (if it doesn't backfire like the SW1000R did, in terms of accuracy).
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2021
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  10. JGRudnick

    JGRudnick Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I really enjoyed the freight ops on the original NEC, so I hope there will be some layered in here as well.
     
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  11. geloxo

    geloxo Well-Known Member

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    After the confirmation of ACS-64 to be included into the rush hour DLC you can bet that the GP40-2 will come as a separate paid DLC as well, maybe including the coil wagon that we already had in the former DLC too, so that the two times payment is a little bit more digestive for us :D

    Cheers
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2021
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  12. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    Wonder if Dovetail can just include some freight cars when the route releases, and use them to fill yards and sidings, it would make it easier for layering with the GP38-2, since all one would need is the base game to get the locomotive, as the route would then have all the rolling stock it needs.

    (Im also NOT talking about basic scenic rolling stock like LIRR's Amfleet's, as those would be useless)
     
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  13. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Maybe, but I highly suspect the No. 1 DLC priority for this route will be the Acela.
     
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  14. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    On a side note, while we're hoping and praying for a few morsels of American freight on TSW2, over on TS20XX, DTG has just announced their " Chessie System Retro Pack " coming soon. Created for the Hanover Sub by Gary Dolzall's High Iron Simulations. This kind of DLC is fairly routine on TS. We can only hope that it eventually becomes a regular feature of TSW2.
     
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  15. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately, I also noticed this announcement ... $ :D
     
  16. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    TS has a metric tonne of 3rd party developers, and it's been going on for a decade.
     
  17. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    I would definitely buy a Chessie system pack for SPG.
     
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  18. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    If and when Gary and HIS turn their hand to producing output for TSW2, we are in for a wealth of high quality American content.
     
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  19. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Solution here is very simple why not have CSX San Patch Grade layer the GP-38 for CSX freight services Boston-Providence route. Then when SPG gets the SD-40-2 as a DLC layer that here. This is a feature missing on American routes which is other DLC routes give layers to New and existing DLC routes. You're going to see these type of features More on the German Routes like Rhein-Ruhr Osten Ruhr-Sieg Nord Hamburg-Lubeck & Main Spessart Bahn.
     
  20. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    Ok, one, didn't I already pointed out the layers part:
    And 2, SD40s doesn't operate on this line realistically, only the GP40-2 does.
    Just feels like you didn't read my entire speculation on this. And just made the same, but different, answer to your own.
    And three, have you seen UP locos on East Coast lines commonly? Or CSX in Peninsula Corridor as often? Layers may be easy for other countries, but remember, the US isn't like Germany where DB nearly operates the entire country in one red color. Just saying.
     
  21. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    I did see a Union Pacific locomotive on the Lehigh line usually sandwich between a Norfolk Southern SD70 at Phillipsburg,NJ at the NS Lehigh Line Viaduct which is what you would see on a transcontinental freight between Los Angeles and Port Newark, NJ Oak Island Yard. For the CSX ones they're going to be Port of Oakland bound but not the Peninsula Caltrain Freight the AC4400CW or SD70ACE
     
  22. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but the only freight running on the Boston-Providence route and nearby track is local freight, not transcontinentals
     
  23. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    Indeed, I did put that in as well:
    Transcon freight is one thing. But, local freight (branches, spurs, shortlines, or passenger lines like Peninsula Corridor) is a different story altogether. And you can't just slap random locos with random liveries all willy nilly in layers either, which is why accuracy is important on a route. Even on local freights like on the Providence line.
    (ex. Imagine seeing an NJT train that's operating on a different line, that runs by a different operator of that line. And I don't mean part of NEC of anywhere near the Northeast states either. Think about that.)
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2021
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  24. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Was replying to Driverwoods
     
  25. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    I know, I was expanding the point.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2021
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  26. JGRudnick

    JGRudnick Well-Known Member

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    Probably not, because the Chessie pack (along with the WM pack) while they include older equipment to backdate operations, the route itself is still set in modern day.
    I doubt this is what DTG would want to do with a " as close to real life as possible" simulator
     
  27. fabristunt

    fabristunt Well-Known Member

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    I have a feeling there won't be any freight. It's a passenger-themed bundle after all...
     
  28. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    True. But, since Bahnstrecke Riesa - Dresen is gonna have freight on its line as described:
    As well as Köln - Aachen, München - Augsburg, and even SEHS (even if it's just to fill Hoo Junction yard, still layered in freight from other DLCs).
    There may be freight, there may be not (again, it's just speculation). But until more info on this route, this is what to go with if so.
     
  29. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

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    They literally did this with the GWR BR Blue pack a while back, they have no issues doing that type of thing. And again in TS Classic there's been a number of DLC's that aren't in time period accurate routes.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2021
  30. blaze111csx

    blaze111csx Well-Known Member

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    I'll say my peice:
    if it's accurate, they'll add freight.
    if it's not, we don't. I'm thinking of "no rolling stock from SPG on CRR because they arn't time period accurate"
     
  31. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

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    I think what happens with freight is gonna depend on what DTG are planning for the GP40-2. If they have no intentions of doing it for NEC Boston using the stock from Sand Patch makes sense. But if they're already planning for the GP40-2 then holding back the freight services to include them with that pack makes a lot of sense. I tend to think the latter's more likely.
     
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  32. diesel power

    diesel power New Member

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    I too hope for the CSX GP40-2 to be remade in tsw2. Be it on sand patch grade or in NEC or in whatever route, I definitely want this loco :love:.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2021
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  33. Snek

    Snek Well-Known Member

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    Just here to voice my support.
    This is definitely a perfect opportunity for a SPG freight layer and just a few services would make the route feel more complete. They do it on most German routes, I don't see why they wouldn't do it on the American.
     
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  34. JGRudnick

    JGRudnick Well-Known Member

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    I forgot about the BR Blue pack. So maybe it is possible.
     
  35. JGRudnick

    JGRudnick Well-Known Member

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    If this is the case, it would be nice to see the GP38-2 layered into some freight services if the player has this GP40-2 pack.
    I think that it is likely that the GP38-2 and some rolling stock from SPG get layered in from the get go, because the most logical DLC for this NEC route is the Acela.
     
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  36. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't hold my breath for a repeat of the GP40-2. Based on player demand, DTG would be leaving a heap of money on the pavement if they didn't make their priority NEC DLC the Acela. After that, maybe a shunter; the small amount of freight moving over this route can be handled easily enough by layering in the existing CSX GP38. The shunter need only be a slight mod of the existing CalTrain MP15 (the SW1500 doesn't operate around Boston). Or they could go with an alternate MBTA locomotive.

    (Why no Acela for the old TSW2020 NEC? Because (1) around New York it can't go any faster than the ACS-64, and (2) because a tilting train wasn't something 2020 was up to.)
     
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  37. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

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    Whether it appears on NEC or not is one thing, but the GP40-2 reappearing at some point is extremely likely. Not only because they have a 3D model of it sitting around unused, but because they have a route (Sand Patch) they can put it on that's already in the sim. And even if they don't add it to that there's lots of places that a GP40-2 would fit on.
    Sure, but who here is saying anything against that? This isn't a thread talking about how the Acela's some trash engine that should be bumped to the bottom of the priority list in favor of a freight loco, it's just bring up some facts to speculate on.
     
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  38. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    I have my doubts that we'll see the GP40-2 again. It's just not a good fit for this part of the NEC and I'm not sure where it would be appropriate anymore. After all, many of them are close to 50 years old, now. Don't think they would look right on SPG or Oakville.
     
  39. nberneck99

    nberneck99 Well-Known Member

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    That’s funny, gp38-2s, gp40-2s, sd40-2s and a plethora more of 50+ year old locomotives are generally the most reliable and used smaller freight engines today. Of course they’ve been rebuilt and modernized on the inside but they’re still going strong and used all over the USA. It certainly wouldn’t be out of place, but I do wonder if P&W or pan am would be a better fit for freight.
     
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  40. JGRudnick

    JGRudnick Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, what you said. Lots of GP38s, GP40s and SD40s are used in local and freight switching operations.
     
  41. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    As long as EMD/Cat continue to make replacement parts for the 645 engine, those things will keep going. CSX is currently engaged in a multimillion-dollar project to upgrade their 50- and 60-year-old SD40s to Dash-3 standard.
     
  42. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    Not to argue with this but from what I've seen so far, GP40s have been operating on and around the Providence Line (from Readville Yard) for a while now. Even if they're assigned to local freight or switching, there still in good use.

    And as for the GP40-2 in general, Dovetail might rebuild their GP40-2 one day. While it looks like they ain't gonna add more locos to SPG anytime soon (for now), doesn't mean there will be a US/NA freight route in the near future (that's not on the road map right now) that will include a GP40. If not in CSX, then in another livery that will still have them like UP or NS.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2021
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  43. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Possibly. However, if DTG have actually taken to heart their "light bulb moment" wrt diversity of rolling stock, I think it rather unlikely that they would go back to the GPSD3840 well very soon; if a NA route appears with (one prays) a new road engine, I would expect something like an SD70MAC or an ES44. Since NEC is primarily a passenger route with a only small amount of freight, layering in the existing CSX GP38-2 would be sufficient.
     
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  44. nberneck99

    nberneck99 Well-Known Member

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    That’s why I was so disappointed to see that cane creek was coming with the same ac44 and sd40. I’d love to see an sd70 or es44ac, even though a lot of us freight locomotives look very similar it still is great to have variety.

    Personally I’d love to see a standard cab dash 8 or 9, and maybe a Canadian locomotive with a wide cab/4 window like the Draper taper or something unique.
     
  45. finntd#7891

    finntd#7891 Well-Known Member

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    im gonna give my thoughts on what everybody has talked about here.
    1. Yes I agree basic layering with the GP38-2 should be Sufficient but they should bring back the YN3 livery from the TSW2020 to Coincide with the Rush hour Release as it did with the YN3 livery with the Original NEC.
    2. The GP40-2 would be a nice return for this route but it should be for SPG as it was Originally in TSW2020 and simply be a layer for the New NEC.
     
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  46. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    If you think that's how it's gonna work, then let me see what kind of "new" locos they've made for TSW since SPG thus far, in terms of NA models:

    NEC NY: ACS-64 (New), GP38-2 (same but with a Yn3 livery)
    PC: F40PH-2CAT (New), GP38-2 (same, but rebuilt)
    OSD: GP38-2 (same, but with CN details), GP9 (technically new)
    CRR: F7 (New) SD40 (technically a rebuilt from SD40-2)
    NEC BP: ACS-64 (revived), F40PH-3C (rebuilt from F40PH)

    So far from Dovetail, it's been nothing but 1 new and 1 reused/rebuilt (the GP38 proves that concept) for each route. So, like the other routes from other countries, your gonna see another same GP38 or SD40 model for another route sooner than you think.
     
  47. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    That's why I referred to what Sam called a "lightbulb moment"- DTG finally figuring out that customers are getting a little tired of recycling. While it does make business sense to base some locos off of existing locos, buyers want more than the same-old same-old. Especially since there are no US-built locos in the game newer than the 1990s!

    --------------
    NB: I have a feeling that while the visual 3D model of the 'new' ACS64 will come from the old NEC, the physics model, which won't port well if at all, may well be adapted from the BR 182 instead
     
  48. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    They are still used everyday near where I am in yard duty and local services, along side GP15-1s, GP38-2s, and GP60s. While Dovetail might just cheat out and use a GP38-2 again, there is always an option to add the GP40-2 as part of a future route.
     
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  49. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    I agree. I'm just saying that there isn't a place for the GP40-2 at the moment, given the routes we currently have or that are in the pipeline.. If DTG were to make a regional route like a Providence-Worcester or even something with D&RGW, UP, CN or NS in an appropriate time period, I would like to see it brought back. It could also be a yard switcher or MOW loco somewhere. It's a venerable old workhorse, but where to put it?
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2021
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  50. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    The only reason I would ever buy any part of "Rush Hour" is the inclusion of a significant (i.e. including switching) portion of freight activity. I'm just not interested in passenger-based railroading and I very much doubt that I'm alone in this preference.
     
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