New American Passenger Route!

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by haninl0610, Nov 30, 2021.

  1. haninl0610

    haninl0610 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2020
    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    165
    According to the new roadmap, there will be coming a new US passenger route :

    [Route Add-On] NCC-R7 02 Harlem Line: Grand Central Terminal - North White Plains with M3A and M7A

    I am so excited for the new route! What are your thoughts?

    (link to new roadmap: https://live.dovetailgames.com/live/train-sim-world/tags/roadmap)
     
    • Like Like x 2
  2. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2021
    Messages:
    604
    Likes Received:
    1,062
    Another North American incab signalling system for them to mess up, why they cant just pick 1 RR with 1 incab signalling system and perfect it over a couple or more DLCs is beyond me TBH
     
    • Like Like x 4
  3. Ravi

    Ravi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2021
    Messages:
    261
    Likes Received:
    250
    I saw the locos were M3A and M7A, so I though it kinda was related to the LIRR. Maybe they will refine the signalling and then implement that back to LIRR as well.
     
  4. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2019
    Messages:
    1,617
    Likes Received:
    4,366
    So far not very hyped - short route, reused stock with only minor changes needed (hopefully upgraded heavily at least)...

    Hopefully, there is something to justify the route's existence. (Cathcart turned out pretty good, but had network-like layout and new EMU going for it)

    Also... DO NOT take shortcuts on Grand Central, DTG! Make it impressive!
    [​IMG]
     
    • Like Like x 3
  5. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2019
    Messages:
    2,646
    Likes Received:
    5,933
    Yeah, really not something I'm looking foward to.
     
  6. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2017
    Messages:
    1,519
    Likes Received:
    2,537
    Well kind of mixed feelings so far. I loved LIRR, so the idea of another similar route is fine by me and I'm looking forward to it. On the other hand, it sounds TOO similar to LIRR. Same rolling stock, and only going to North White Plains? That's barely half of the whole line, according to the map.

    Though I do see there is a yard there, I suppose it's a bigger turnaround point for the trains there that don't go the full distance. Can someone clarify what distance do the M3A and M7A trains take on the line? Because, I mean, as long as the route being this short is prototypical, as all EMUs would termiante there anyway, I'm fine with it. But if it's like LIRR where your service ends half-way at Hicksville, then that's pretty lame again.

    Also I hate the idea of making another LIRR like route while leaving LIRR itself in such a bad and sad state. Unless they plan on fixing LIRR at the same time as well, but I doubt that.

    That being said, I'm looking forward to it. If it ends up being good, then at least we will finally have a "better LIRR" - in that case, it's definitely a purchase from me.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  7. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2021
    Messages:
    604
    Likes Received:
    1,062
    Ive got to agree with you, theres very little to get excited about. Of all the lines running out of NY this is possibly the least exciting with the least variety and room for layers.

    Why not the Hudson line as far as Croton–Harmon station and include the spur to Penn station (unused initially), it would have been 4 more stations (excluding Penn which is already built) and around 45 miles admittedly. But it would have still have used the M3a & M7a, allowed Metro North PC32's to be sold as a DLC at a future date, along with an Amtrak DLC running from Penn to Croton with a stop at Yonkers with up to 20 services added. Hell Id buy that route just for the Amtrak runs!!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    2,265
    Likes Received:
    3,120
    Not really. I would have preferred something out west or maybe a NYC subway route. A definite miss for me.
     
  9. Krazy

    Krazy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2020
    Messages:
    241
    Likes Received:
    532
    I think the Harlem Line will be alright. The short route length seems fine, as North White Plains is the terminus for EMUs. Services will still take around an hour, so the length isn’t everything.

    The rolling stock, while it’s nothing new, will perhaps be the definitive versions. I was hoping for an M7A someday, and perhaps it’ll get improved sounds and destination boards. The inclusion of the M3A is a very nice thing, as DTG could have very much included the M7A only. So I’m glad they added the M3A, as I didn’t want to buy the LIRR M3.

    I mean, the Harlem Line is probably the least interesting Metro-North route, but at least it’s a Metro-North route. The Hudson Line would’ve been incredible with so much variety, and the New Haven Line would bring in the M8 (or M2) plus Amtrak trains on the NEC. But while it’s nothing crazy, I’m sure the Harlem Line will be… alright. Nothing phenomenal, but still a good US passenger route.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  10. Geth_2234

    Geth_2234 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2020
    Messages:
    203
    Likes Received:
    284
    I am not from the US and know very little about US railways so I've had to Google this, but first impressions I'm not particularly excited for this route seeing as there is 2 completely reused locos and it is very short and massively similar to LIRR so DTG will really have to pull this off with the scenery grand Central inparticular and make some big improvements to both locos. I do like playing LIRR but I find that a little bit to short. I personally wont be buying this route at least not straight away anyway and so far nothing about this route stands out above LIRR.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. nwp1

    nwp1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2019
    Messages:
    794
    Likes Received:
    441
    Really excited by this route. Grand Central Terminal is a stunning station and I hope DTG allow a walk around the main hall and basement. If so that would be truly fabulous.
     
  12. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2021
    Messages:
    2,467
    Likes Received:
    4,579
    I've little interest in US Routes - however, since Rush Hour and Boston Sprinter, I'm beginning to get into it.

    Now, New York transport is something I've always been keen on, looking in from Scotland. (Nothing to do with the cultural ties between us :))

    I personally feel mixed about the route.
    I don't own Long Island Railroad - so I don't have the M7 or M3 as it is. However, I would quite like to be able to stretch the proverbial legs of them. And 20-odd miles doesn't seem convincing for that. Although the express services mentioned around do promise.

    However, on the contrary, I find that it could have a similar output to Cathcart Circle - it's short, which gives them the chance to focus on certain areas. Although, Cathcart did have other factors supporting it.

    However, I would like to be able to explore Grand Central. Recently, exploration has slowly disappeared from the game, so it would be good to get that back, and explore an icon of American and - to be honest - global railways*.

    *You're not converting me to calling it "Railroads". :D
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2020
    Messages:
    592
    Likes Received:
    665
    I was happy to see Harlem Line for a second, but yeah, I'm not a fan of the route length. Considering that for the past few routes it really seems DTG were finally doing a proper push to increase route lengths it's underwhelming to see a route that's sub-30 miles again. Also even as someone who doesn't own LIRR it's disappointing to see the lack of something new. I think I get why, since the other stock that could be included need a cab car alongside the actual locomotive, and that probably would be pushing what DTG are willing to do. But still, doesn't change the fact that the lack of new stock's disappointing.
     
  14. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2017
    Messages:
    1,519
    Likes Received:
    2,537
    If North White Plains really is the terminus for the EMUs, then that's fine by me. Though this way they won't really have room to justify some other rolling stock DLC for the route in the future, but well...

    This is what I am hoping as well. Even if it's similar to LIRR, but the route and rolling stock itself is done well, it might be a great little route.

    Though the fact that it seems to be a single line makes variety a bit worse, considering LIRR on the other hand had several branch lines and terminus stations included.

    In any case, will be looking forward to see what else they have for us regarding this route.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. bdlaplaca

    bdlaplaca New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    7
    North White Plains is the northern terminus for Local services on the southern portion of the line. Express services from Grand Central stop at 125th, White Plains, and North White Plains, then run local to Southeast. There are various other rush hour only stopping patterns as well. There are also a few (like 6 a day) express deisel trains to/from Wassiac which would run express between White Plains and Grand Central, potential DLC opportunity there.
     
  16. Mateiule

    Mateiule Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2021
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    79
    North White Plains is the terminus for some EMUs. I wish we get it all the way to Southeast (~30 more miles for a total of 54) and Yankees-E 153 which is used on game days.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    2,265
    Likes Received:
    3,120
    Thinking about it, isn't this the route that was in an earlier version of Trainz - might have been TRS2006?
     
  18. Lunar_Twisted

    Lunar_Twisted Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2019
    Messages:
    233
    Likes Received:
    383
    I am extremely happy that Metro North is going to be in the game as the LIRR is my second most played route with 479.42 miles in TSW 2.
     
  19. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2018
    Messages:
    681
    Likes Received:
    966
    Technically, it was made for Trainz Classic (the extended, standalone, version of Trainz 2006)
    screenshot4lrg.jpg
    (At least the FL9 model wasn't bad at the time on Trainz)
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  20. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    2,265
    Likes Received:
    3,120
    Thanks Challenger, thought it seemed familiar.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  21. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2019
    Messages:
    1,617
    Likes Received:
    4,366
    That is IF they make it accessible.
     
  22. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    3,324
    Likes Received:
    3,938
    I was hoping that the P32AC-DM would be included.
     
  23. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2019
    Messages:
    2,141
    Likes Received:
    3,191
    The problem however is that this line is equipped with ATC and ACSES.

    If ATC and ACSES do not work correctly on an almost perfectly straight A-B, LGV-like route... how will that system fare with a potentially more complex timetable, service pattern and track layout?

    Also I would suggest to get your expectations too high for Grand Central Terminal, remember how little of Glasgow Central is free to explore? And I think we can agree Grand Central is a bit more intricate.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2021
  24. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    6,229
    Likes Received:
    8,867
    I venture this route will show as much of Grand Central's concourse as Bakerloo does of Waterloo's. Sorry, folks, but all you're getting is the platforms.
     
    • Like Like x 7
  25. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    1,980
    Likes Received:
    3,726
    You would think that, with the route being particularly short, it would be balanced by an especially detailed and realistic urban landscape. I certainly hope so. I hope that Grand Central is made as realistic and as busy as possible. I'm not expecting to be able to explore every nook and cranny, but DTG need to improve on the disappointing Boston South and Victoria in terms of Rush Hour.
     
  26. skyMutt

    skyMutt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2019
    Messages:
    504
    Likes Received:
    1,331
    This has to be a very peculiar choice for a route, even for DTG.
    Having it terminate at North White Plains will definitely be like having Hicksville be the end point on the LIRR route. It just doesn't feel quite right.
    Given that we also are getting new variants of rolling stock that we've already seen, I'm left wondering just one thing.

    What exactly is DTG's pitch for this route?

    How are they going to convince people to buy this DLC?
    Straight off the bat, there's already compromises being made, both in terms of route length and loco choice. What are these compromises being made for? Are we going to see improvements made in other areas?
    DTG are painting themselves into a very interesting situation with this route, whereby they have to do something to make this route sell, otherwise it risks flopping and end up much like the LIRR did, having only a portion of its potential realized.

    With such a short route length, hopefully this poses an opportunity for there to be some exceptional scenery for this route, which runs right into the heart of New York City. Unlike the LIRR which runs through much of Queens and Brooklyn, the Harlem Line runs right through Manhattan and into the Bronx. What this means is that line runs through some of the more urbanized areas of New York, with tall residential buildings hugging either side of the tracks.
    Now, it shouldn't be expected for every building to be a 1:1 replica of its real life counterpart, but they should at least sell the feeling of being in Harlem.
    Think of dark red brick buildings. Store fronts. Plenty of murals. All of this while having the skyline of Midtown Manhattan in the distance. It should be a somewhat more intimate experience with the city compared to what you'd see on the LIRR.
    Its a massive task, but it's one that is core to what the route should be. Getting the scenery wrong could definitely be the make-or-break moment for plenty of people, and I dearly hope that the folks working on this route understand that.

    Beyond scenery there should be a fairly decent timetable, with the Harlem Line containing quite a few different stopping patterns, and having other lines share the same tracks.
    The locos should at least be improved from what we have currently. The M7's should have a functioning display board, and the M3's should get their own proper sounds (hopefully they could incorporate some of the lovely sound mods that were developed for it).
    The PIS boards at stations are also vastly different compared to the ones that appear on the LIRR and Boston.
    Nighttime lighting should be comparable to what was there on Dresden. Again, the line runs very close to buildings and streets, so there should be a decent amount of illumination. It cannot be left pitch black.
    Most importantly of all, Grand Central should be modeled, at least to a reasonable extent. C'mon, it's Grand Central. It would look phenomenal in the Unreal Engine! Not being able to explore the station in a game that allows and encourages exploration would be a massive shortcoming.

    So, as a reality check, I don't genuinely believe they'll nail much of the points I went over, however they have all of the opportunities to do so anyways.
    With it being such a short route with trains we're already familiar with, I hope that the trade-offs are that we get a route that at least improves on what the LIRR offers.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2021
    • Like Like x 7
  27. malikrthr

    malikrthr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2019
    Messages:
    307
    Likes Received:
    592
    I am excited for this route, but I think DTG should really consider extending it atleast to where the 3rd rail ends, "Southeast" station. I also hope at some point, the locomotive hauled equipment (P32AC-DM, BL20GH and Shoreliners I-IV) can be featured as a DLC. This would also allow for extension possibilities to include the whole line up to Wassaic, approximately 82 miles north of GCT. Many more service patterns and scenarios can also be introduced if the locomotive hauled equipment arrives at a later date. For the run on the Harlem line, the RSA (Reduced Signal Aspects) should be implemented, ATC and ASCES should be implemented. Also, it would be cool if PTC is implemented. If the Mott Haven WYE and Flyover track at Woodlawn junction is featured, I can definitely see potential for the Hudson and New Haven Lines coming to TSW2.
     
  28. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2020
    Messages:
    4,328
    Likes Received:
    5,151
    I think the route is a bit too short. Considering that we already have 50+ mile passenger routes and the electrified section from Grand Central to Southeast is only 53 miles with 38 stations (the full line is 82 miles from Grand Central to Wassaic but the line north of southeast isn't electrified), I felt like it could be longer. And no the M7A and M3A are not the same trains from lirr. There are technical, interior and some slight sound differences.
     
  29. MrbKlegend89

    MrbKlegend89 Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2019
    Messages:
    248
    Likes Received:
    206

    I'm trying understand why these type of US passemger dlcs get shorter than 26 miles but London Commuter gets an entire 50+ mile London-Brighton line...but this dlc goes only to North White Plains instead all the way to Southeasf smfh...and I guarantee you DTG gon copy and paste the M3 and M7 to this..I was hoping more of the New Haven Line....I wait until others play this route first
     
    • Like Like x 1
  30. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2021
    Messages:
    640
    Likes Received:
    860
    Happy the route was announced. I agree on the lenght, at least until southeast station would be nice.

    Its like london to brighton just created to gatwick airport. But im sure dtg has its selling point on that.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  31. Yerolo

    Yerolo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2018
    Messages:
    833
    Likes Received:
    1,663
    Cabview of the Harlem line from North White Plains to Grand Central

     
    • Like Like x 3
  32. mlouie100

    mlouie100 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2019
    Messages:
    226
    Likes Received:
    439
    I would be interested in buying this route for tsw 2 but I like them to add the section from Southeast where the electric trains end to North White Plains and this would be pushed the in game route mileage to 53 and this would complete the whole electric train services on the Harlem Line from Grand Central to Southeast.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2021
    • Like Like x 1
  33. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2020
    Messages:
    4,328
    Likes Received:
    5,151
    I don't understand why it's short but i'm sure once previews are shown they'll explain why it is the way it is. It can't be like lirr which was a route full of wasted potential
     
    • Like Like x 4
  34. JackRyan

    JackRyan Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    60
    Likes Received:
    77
    The route is very short (23.8 miles and 4 of them are in a tunnel). The rolling stock is already made.
    If they don't bring Grand Central Terminal concourse in, I will be extremely disappointed.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  35. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    2,265
    Likes Received:
    3,120
    Maybe it will sell at a budget price?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  36. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2017
    Messages:
    1,519
    Likes Received:
    2,537
    Highly doubt it.
     
  37. JackRyan

    JackRyan Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    60
    Likes Received:
    77
    Why do a short route and sell it at a budget price instead of doing a full lenght route at standard price?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  38. Cael

    Cael Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2018
    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    768
    From Yerolo's video, the route looks quite nice. Hopefully DTG will be able to recreate Manhattan as it should be since there seems to be a compromise in length.
    I'm not too excited about the Grand Central "takes forever" approach, but hey, that's the way it is.

    Overall, I am mildly interested, but will wait until release to see if it's worth getting.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  39. sugondese

    sugondese Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2021
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    8
    So is the route based in UK
     
  40. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2021
    Messages:
    3,322
    Likes Received:
    1,993
    M7A is simpler to run than a Class 166 because at the end of the service you don't need to put in drivers appliance reminder.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  41. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2019
    Messages:
    4,293
    Likes Received:
    10,839
    Where’s mrchuck? He’s only asked for this line like a hundred times (not exaggerating) and now it’s coming, not a peep.

    People don’t seem to be too happy, saying it should be 50-odd miles long instead. Isn’t there nearly 40 stations if it goes to Southeast? That’s a bit much to expect from a TSW route. I think a bigger issue than end to end length is that it doesn’t seem to have branches like LIRR had, so not as much variety going on. Hopefully there will be a busy timetable, plenty of AI action and the scenery is done justice to make up for that.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  42. Yerolo

    Yerolo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2018
    Messages:
    833
    Likes Received:
    1,663
    He had a heart attack due to the excitement. RIP dear sir
     
    • Like Like x 2
  43. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2021
    Messages:
    3,322
    Likes Received:
    1,993
    Take a look at the Harlem Line schedule Southeast formerly Brewster North is served by express electric M7A M3A DLC M9A 1hr 30 to GCT takes 46 minutes from N White Plains to Southeast. M7As can't be 10-12 car trains to Southeast because substations North White Plains to Brewster North Southeast can't handle those due to power issues only M3As can do those. M7A to brewster North Southeast are 8 car trains. M7A is easy to operate because you use L1 PS5 PS4 LB Xbox charge brakes R1 (Xbox RB) Brakes R2 (Xbox RT) Increase power
     
  44. JackRyan

    JackRyan Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    60
    Likes Received:
    77
    I can only appreciate the lenght if the quality is higher (less recycled assets and a great view of Manhattan skyline) if that's the case, it's a no brainer for me.
     
  45. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2017
    Messages:
    1,519
    Likes Received:
    2,537
    Watching a cab ride video, the route looks pretty nice. As you said, having the Manhattan skyline definitely is a must.

    The whole elevated section feels really cool, hopefully they nail it and use actual metal track where needed, not full ballast track all the way like they did on LIRR.

    I also think they could repaint the M3A units in red and use them as AI only traffic for the New Haven line which runs on the same section for a while. That surely wouldn't be too much work, would it?
     
    • Like Like x 2
  46. JackRyan

    JackRyan Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    60
    Likes Received:
    77
    If I'm not mistaken, the New Haven Line used to run the M2, which had a pantograph, but they are all retired now.
     
  47. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2017
    Messages:
    1,519
    Likes Received:
    2,537
    That's true. I wonder if a "fake" M2 repaint of the M3 is better than no New Haven line traffic at all? Or they could modify the M3A's exterior model with the equipment on the roof.

    I doubt they would do it, but it would be nice to see AI only rolling stock like these on certain routes.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  48. Lunar_Twisted

    Lunar_Twisted Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2019
    Messages:
    233
    Likes Received:
    383
    I do hope they include a.i. traffic from the Hudson Line since it uses the M3A and M7A as well.
     
  49. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    1,980
    Likes Received:
    3,726
    In the same way that the Boston route featured AI trains from lines other than Providence around the South Station throat, AI trains from other Metro North lines should populate the approaches to GCT. This Rush Hour feature and the new passenger flow increase should be de rigueur for this and all future commuter routes. I get that they might have to " fake " the Hudson and New Haven trains to some extent, but for AI it would be OK, I think. Traffic volume and populating the tracks in the Terminal will need more than just the few Harlem trains.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2021
    • Like Like x 2
  50. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2020
    Messages:
    395
    Likes Received:
    198
    So True the Hudson Line have more better scenery along the way. I was hoping for them to do the Hudson, cause that is my favorite line
     

Share This Page