New British Routes Speculation

Discussion in 'Train Sim World Discussion' started by londonmidland, Oct 6, 2022.

  1. MYG92

    MYG92 Well-Known Member

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    Oh please I hope the sounds won’t be as bad as the TSC version. BCC will be a great addition to TSW3
     
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  2. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I think the Cross City will be a good route choice as it is quite varied scenery wise and including New Street adds possibilities for the future. Although New Street will be very quiet it is unlikely they are going to make anything just to fill it out. I do hope they do implement the sounds properly. They still haven't fixed the TSC version, quelle suprise! People moan TSW fixes are slow, TSC fixes are glacial by comparison, if you see them at all!
     
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  3. fakenham

    fakenham Well-Known Member

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    Great news re X-city, an interesting drive, I've always thought it'd make a great route for TSW. Hopefully we'll have both Redditch and Bromsgrove, plus a busy New St.
     
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  4. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

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    I don't get why DTG are so hush-hush about content at this point in development. Once there's achievements out for it then it's clear at least what stock's in, and roughly where it is. Honestly don't get why DTG don't announce these officially a few days in advance of the achievements going live.

    As for the content it's not something I'm excited about initially myself, another MU focused route, and so far only seems to have the one set with it. But to give it credit at least if it has to be another multi-unit focused route at least it has a brand new one, and not a rehash of one that already exists.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2022
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  5. Scorpion71

    Scorpion71 Well-Known Member

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    Oh well, another cathcart then by the looks of it. An 80% sale purchase maybe, can't be doing with seeing an empty BNS
     
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  6. max1313

    max1313 Active Member

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    If is cross city I would be disappointed. Is not a popular route for train simulator classic and is not a route that people have asked for in TSW3. I really hope is not cross city. Looks like trains run every 30 minutes….. boring. But just my opinion
     
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  7. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if it will also include the line out to Walsall (both routes) would make more of a network, Wolverhampton too but I guess it will just be Lichfield to Redditch. I don't envy the 3D artist who got the, "I want Birmingham New Street modelled", on his desk. :) But the possibility of a virtual New Street alone probably makes this a Day 1 purchase.
     
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  8. mattwild55

    mattwild55 Well-Known Member

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    I'm really happy that we're getting another UK route next of any description, but I'm a *little* concerned that route selection doesn't appear to play to TSW's strengths regarding layering and the timetable.

    Big caveat - the below assumes that we're just getting the CCL rather than any further-afield extensions, and makes some assumptions about the included rolling stock.

    The Class 323 will sort all of the CCL services, but there's so much other traffic that (most likely looking at other previous DLC) simply won't be represented.

    - Class 350 only operates through New Street and for a couple of stations up the Chase Line so can't imagine this will be included
    - Class 390 doesn't operate on this line so will be missing from New Street
    - Cross-Country Voyagers will almost certainly not be included given that they only stop at New Street although they run the length of the southern part of the route

    Potential DLC if they're not included already:

    - Class 170 in WMT and XC liveries
    - Some other freight locomotive?

    Cross-City Line services are once every 15 minutes on the core part of the route so not sure we're going to be chasing yellows very much. There's probably quite a lot of scope for freight and railtours. Fingers crossed Joethefish is on the timetable!

    (Happy to be corrected on any of this - I'm just going from Wikipedia and RTT...)
     
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  9. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully we will get a classic layer so if Bromsgrove is included we can thrash the 45's and 47's up the Lickey, have the Sunday diversion of Cross Country services via Sutton Coldfield, too.
     
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  10. seagull81006

    seagull81006 Member

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    i hope they at least extend cross city line into Cheltenham Spa, so we can have some voyagers and 170s to make the route a little more busy and offer some variety in services
     
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  11. matt#4801

    matt#4801 Well-Known Member

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    I think this could be an interesting addition as there is some fairly decent scenery from what a mate of mine from Redditch says and 323s are fairly decent units as long as the sounds are done right.
     
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  12. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    The Cross City Line (pre-pandemic) has services every 10 minutes.
     
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  13. antony.henley

    antony.henley Well-Known Member

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    Because you get some of the forum princesses that get really upset if its not the route that they want. Plus DTG enjoy reading the speculation thread.
     
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  14. lcyrrjp

    lcyrrjp Well-Known Member

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    I enjoyed Anthony Bowden’s Cross City for BVE, but it was only South of New Street, so I’m looking forward to going the other way - to Lichfield - particularly. The 323 is reasonably interesting as modern EMUs go. I haven’t bought TSW3 yet as none of the routes which came with it held any interest for me, so this will probably prompt me to buy it - whether day 1 or after I’ve seen some reviews will depend on what the timetable looks like. Clearly there isn’t the same scope as the Brighton line for having hundreds of trains, but the scheduled running times need to be realistic (as they were with the Brighton line, but not with Crewe-Liverpool, so it remains a lottery).

    My only slight nervousness is that if the Cross City trains are the only ones on the network (which, if the only train is the 323, seems quite likely) then every train is going to be on greens all the way, which will mean there’s no variety. Hopefully they’ll throw in a few other trains to get in the way a bit - some of the other local services have been 323 operated and share some of the same lines. There are also 150s on local services, so an opportunity there to use Rivet’s 150. They could also have some cross country HSTs, and also 66s on freight.

    The other thing I’ll be looking out for is some variety in stopping pattern. Looking at the current timetable it appears everything stops everywhere, but that wasn’t always the case. There used to be some semi-fast services - I think at peak times only and terminating at Longbridge at the South end of the route rather than Redditch. I hope they set it in an era when that is included, to give variety.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2022
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  15. mattwild55

    mattwild55 Well-Known Member

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    XC HSTs would be really good if they're in use at the time the route is set - that would help introduce a bit of variety (even if they're AI-only).
     
  16. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Actually I have to smile and think how good the semi fictional, but otherwise excellent, Network West Midlands from OpenBVE would be translated across to TSW.
     
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  17. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Well, I know nothing of this route except its location which, thank heaven, is 100 miles north of London. I hope it's scenic and interesting because the train that's coming with it looks like an Electrostar with pantographs.

    I suppose the fact that it's rather old and has been refurbished makes it a little more palatable, but it's still an electric commuter train, of which there is already a surfeit.

    Is it possible that a real loco will haul some freight on this line?
     
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  18. lcyrrjp

    lcyrrjp Well-Known Member

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    One thing I didn’t think of… Cross Country Drivers used to (maybe still do) sign the route between Lichfield Trent Valley and Birmingham New Street (as opposed to their usual route via Tamworth) as a diversionary route. When the diversions ran, they used to stop at Lichfield City. So it would be possible to have in the timetable a XC HST running the whole length of the route from Lichfield Trent Valley to Barnt Green (or Bromsgrove if the route goes that far) and actually have it drivable between its calls at Lichfield City and Birmingham New Street. That would make a nice change.

    Now I think about it, I’m pretty sure there used to be one XC HST per day which was actually scheduled to run via Lichfield City rather than Tamworth for route knowledge retention purposes, so it wouldn’t even need to be reliant on diversions.
     
  19. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I think the 323's preceded the Electrostar design but they do have a rather odd sound, sort of an electric gear change as they pull away. It's possible we could see the 66 bundled for some freight action I suppose, there's a fair bit of traffic up the Lickey some of which still has to be banked. However most freight turns right at Kings Norton and heads off down the Camp Hill Line towards Bordesley and Landor Street which I doubt has been included, even though some XC passenger services run that way to access New Street from the eastern approach, in order to save a reversal if heading off towards Wolverhampton.

    This is where a network might have been more interesting, though I guess we will await the official announcement to see exactly how much we are getting.
     
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  20. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Definitely some ECS movements booked that way for route knowledge retention, as I noted above it is a diversionary route for engineering work or indeed an incident blocking the line via Tamworth.
     
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  21. Tank621

    Tank621 Well-Known Member

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    In terms of modern EMUs the 323 wouldn't have been my first choice but it's certainly above a lot of other more modern units. A rather fascinating and unique design, a good addition I'd say, and finally visiting some new parts of the UK which is excellent. I'm pretty pleased with this choice overall.
     
  22. FredElliott

    FredElliott Active Member

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    I have no basis for this, but is it possible this is the Rivet UK route rather than the DTG one
     
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  23. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    So…. Am I right in thinking based on 3 achievements listed we’re already moaning. This is spectacular . Give them a chance first. My only hope is it’s busy and there’s dioramas dotted about
     
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  24. Tank621

    Tank621 Well-Known Member

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    I don't see why it isn't possible, a single train on a route does seem more like something Rivet would do versus DTG for their first new route add-on for TSW3
     
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  25. Tank621

    Tank621 Well-Known Member

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    Welcome to the Internet ;)
     
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  26. MAX1319

    MAX1319 Well-Known Member

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    On train simulator classic these are the key features on the cross city line and has a mix reviews. The 323 sounds are to good.
    • 37-mile Cross City Line from Lichfield Trent Valley to Bromsgrove & Redditch via Birmingham New Street
    • 25 train stations.
    I played it numerous times and fount it to get boring fast with no variety. Especially Birmingham new street will be an empty station . I guess all this is speculation until an official announcement
     

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  27. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

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    Same could be said for every game company, simulation or otherwise, yet DTG manage to be way more strict than any other company. Even in TSC there's developers who are more than willing to comment on what they're working on, and do so without issue. The main one I can think of right now's Milepost's Rio Grande Southern narrow gauge route, which they have posted quite a few photos of over this past year.

    Also to me it seems a bit stupid to encourage these speculation threads if they want to manage expectations. There's so little to even base speculation on in the case of routes like this, nobody can reasonably guess the routes with any degree of certainty. I don't get how merely stating the route name and primary loco is considered something people can't handle, but allowing nearly baseless speculation threads is fine in their mind.
     
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  28. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    The reviews on TSC are probably bad because the 323 is not particularly good.

    I have some reservations but as the Chief mentions above, let's give it a chance and see what's on offer. New Street will be an iconic location and I see quite a bit of potential for "Off The Rails" jiggery pokery with this one. Perhaps a Class 31 and Load 5 starting at Bromsgrove, emulating a Worcester to New Street "local" working as happened many years ago. Or sub in the 101 for a more ponderous run from Lichfield to Redditch all stations. maybe even a Western working the old "Paddington to Paddington" which ran out via Leamington to Coventry and returned via the Lickey, Worcester then the Cotswold Line.
     
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  29. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    I refunded the TSC Cross City route because of how bad the Class 323 was to drive, even though the route itself was good. If done in TSW then I hope it would be much nicer (the Class 465 on TSC is not particularly good either yet is one of the best EMUs in TSW).
     
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  30. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

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    It is Cross City then? Well my hype has completely gone. I was hoping the first brand new British TSW3 route would be a real headliner. I just can't get excited over yet another electric commuter route. We already have Cathcart for this kind of thing.

    I'll still get it probably, and I'd certainly take it over another third rail route, but I can't imagine playing it as much as BML or SEHS.

    And Birmingham isn't in the North. So I'm assuming Matt's comment was referring to Rivet's rounte.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2022
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  31. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I am not familiar with this route or the train so it will all be new to me. I’m going to look for some cab rides to prepare myself for the new adventure.
     
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  32. MAX1319

    MAX1319 Well-Known Member

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    Agree. This would be very disappointing. barely 200 timetable routes depending on the year
     
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  33. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    Birmingham is still down south in my book and with just a 323 its going to be another Cartcart IMO
     
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  34. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

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    Not to mention how dead it will be with just the 323. Cathcart had this problem with Glasgow Central, but once you got out of central it was alright. The entire line from New Street to Bromsgrove is populated by lots of regional and intercity services, so it's gonna feel very deserted.
     
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  35. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Really! People for a long time were requesting it for TSC, going back as far as I can remember. It seems to have got a good response for the route itself, it is the sounds on the class 323 which have attracted criticism. It has often been requested for TSW also.

    I would rather see this a complete route rather than something like the WCML starting at Euston and ending nowhere like Milton Keynes with a couple of item of stock.
     
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  36. SJA

    SJA Active Member

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    I would also wager that plays a role. I drive that route with an AP 319 as I can't quite tolerate the 323.

    It is a nice route though. Seems to perform well on my average machine and keeps one busy.
     
  37. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

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    I'm afraid I have to disagree. In terms of gameplay Cross City offers nothing that Cathcart or BML have already. Euston to Milton Keynes would have a mixture of express, semi fast and commuter services, it's a more iconic route and it would more than likely feature a tilting Pendolino.
     
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  38. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I want to see the WCML as much as anyone else but ending at Milton Keynes for me would be a wasted opportunity especially as I can drive the route to Birmingham in TSC and soon will be able to drive it to Wolverhampton, Preston etc.

    The nature of the route means it could be a challenge to drive and it has some very interesting scenery, if DTG capture it well.
     
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  39. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    At the end of the day its an electric commuter route with whats looks to be a single loco, hardly any different game play to Cartcart, Eastcoast Way etc etc especially with a single train (and no doubt a Cl66 on some light frieght, in an attempt to beef up the game play).

    TBH it feels like a rivet route rather a DTG route. But if this is a DTG route and we've waited over 14 months for it since London commuter then for me its a massive let down.
     
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  40. lcyrrjp

    lcyrrjp Well-Known Member

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    A good point about the 31+5 - that would be a good thrash on the Lickey. ‘Heritage’ DMUs ran on Cross City well into the 90s, because the 323s were so unreliable when they were first introduced. That also means that the DMUs ran on 323 timings - on which they lost time heavily of course, but it would be good fun trying to stay as close to time as possible!

    It reminds me of a visit to the route around that time. BR used to display the punctuality statistics for the route on notice boards on the stations. The PPM (trains arriving within 5 mins of booked time) was displayed as 48%! This was because they were running DMUs on many trains on 323 timings. Admittedly the DMUs more associated with the route were 116s and 117s, not 101s, but a bit of reading suggests Tyseley’s 101s did work the route at times, pretty much throughout their lifetime.

    Here’s a gratuitous picture of a 101 at Gravelly Hill:

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/tutenkhamunsleeping/5400795604/
     
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  41. MAX1319

    MAX1319 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you on this. It sounds more like a rivet route. Honestly I’m actually hoping this is the case. You are correct that after london commuter route Im expecting something big and this would definitely be a disappointment
     
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  42. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

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    I'm hoping against hope this is Rivet's route too. Such a long wait for a modern British route after London Commuter, which practically had no new stock, and this is what we get?
     
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  43. Jpantera

    Jpantera Well-Known Member

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    Cathcart 2 in my eyes

    People cry out for modern routes, as I have stated many times there isnt the rolling stock stable to do many justice. South Eastern is the only one and maybe London Commuter/East Coastway. Its Cathcart 2 in my eyes. Not knocking it too hard as many will enjoy it but how many times will a Empty Birmingham New Street be an immersion breaker. This could have been done in the 70s or 80s with a selection of Already existing rolling stock to fill it and a new DMU but we seem to be done with BR Blue now.
     
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  44. squerble

    squerble Member

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    Yep, chalk me up for the disappointed in this route being BCC. I'd have preferred expansions to LC instead of just a similar electric commuter route. Give us something new or expand what we have.
     
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  45. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I would love to see that, they would only have to make a class 116 and maybe some airconditioned mark 2's.

    However, can you imagine the anger on here if it was set in that period, it would be a lot more intense than it is for what looks like is going to be released?!
     
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  46. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

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    I have to agree with james and the like, we've just gotten three truly massive routes from Dovetail, going right back to another 40 mile route feels underwhelming. I'm not expecting every route to be a massive one, but I would expect the first real major piece of content to be something on par with the base routes.

    Keep in mind there's almost certainly a ton of new players that have just arrived for TSW3, and you know what they say, first impressions are everything. The first pieces of content that DTG release are gonna be key for retaining those new players. And frankly I'm not sure how many new players are gonna be wowed by a route half the length of the route(s) they already own, and with only one or two new locos.

    Also I'm quite curious how the pricing is gonna work out here, is it gonna be $30, or $40? $40 made sense for the new routes with their greater length, but it won't make sense for a route like this which lighting aside is more in line with TSW2 standard in my eyes. However SoS seems to have been bumped up to $40 just for the light upgrade, so I struggle to think they'd go lower for this new route.
     
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  47. mattwild55

    mattwild55 Well-Known Member

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    I should start by saying that I'll definitely buy this anyway and look forward to seeing what DTG do with it - especially with the new lighting which is stunning compared to TSW2. I went out for a little spin on Spirit of Steam at sunset recently and despite all of the outstanding issues with physics, timetable etc. - I can honestly say that the lighting set the mood perfectly and I look forward to enjoying it on all the new routes.

    Beyond that, perhaps this is partly a way to develop the (extensive) assets for New Street and the surrounding area before they go for a big WCML London Euston - Birmingham New Street route in the future? This would be a great way to set that up to ensure that if/when WCML South does arrive, it's busy at both ends of the line and they're not trying to develop two huge termini at once for a single route. Just a bit more speculation for the speculation thread.
     
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  48. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    I think part of our initial reaction is because we are finding out about it from 3 short lines in steam DB. First impressions last and perhaps if we'd had an article detailing what was going to be included then DTG might see a more positive overall reaction.

    As it is I'm no longer looking forward to this based on what I know.

    That in anyone's book is not good marketing.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2022
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  49. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I would assume we will also get at least part of the route towards Wolverhampton as it would make no sense to have the route without the depot at Soho.
     
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  50. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    That's what I was thinking otherwise there'd be zero depot/ECS runs. It's only located just over 2 miles outside of Birmingham New Street, some of which is a long tunnel along the way so there would really be too much to model.

    [​IMG]
     
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