https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-62219822 UK Government announces billions more investment into route widening and electrification across the North of England...
I see this last night. If we wasn't faced with the climate change woes right now do you think they would be investing?
Plans for OLE rollout have been in place for a while across the North now, electrification between Victoria to Leeds & Rochdale began last year. The TRU is quite comprehensive, not only is it electrification, but significant infrastructure upgrades such as track, bridges and signalling.
If it was up to me any line with more than 2 trains running per hour in the peak would be electrified... Everywhere in the UK
I think electrification and infrastructure upgrades are long overdue in parts of the North. I guess it's like in London where its a balance between delivering the upgrades and disruption to services. I imagine a lot of tunnels can't accommodate ole.
The whole country really. Electric trains are faster, lighter, cheaper to make, cheaper to maintain, easier on infrastructure... The GWR mainline was rolled out over a few years with few major disruptions. By major I mean days on end where the line was supposed to be open where it was not It's usually bridges that are the main issue, especially the older metal ones. Again the GWR electric roll out found quite a few solutions
As a northern citizen, I think electrification on the trans-pennine routes is a good idea. currently every train is diesel and not as good for the environment as electric trains. Hopefully the government doesn't scrap the project like what they did for many other things based around yorkshire like hs2 phase 2b which was very disappointing
The HS2 extended rollout was always a pipe dream, it’s already well over budget, underground stations and 140mph lines splintering off all over the place was completely unrealistic. Fortunately what is happening in the Northern sector is not only realistic, but is happening.
I wonder if we will eventually go to ole here in the south, not that I want to see it, it's an eyesore.
I don't really see why they would, mainly because the distances are shorter so no real need for higher speeds overall, and the density of stations compared to the north is much higher and 3rd rail seems to work better. Does mean more substations though so maybe upkeep is higher?
I think Ac trains are a lot more efficient than Dc. Also its more cost effective for a trainset that runs on just Ac than a train that runs on both. Then there's safety, rail workers are less likely to get electrocuted same with a member of the public ending up on the track. Hopefully for the foreseeable they don't see it being financially viable. But its gonna come eventually.
Surprisingly, AC is usually more dangerous to track workers, mainly due to arcing & only really having one hard fail safe (turning it off). Third rail on the other hand is more manageable, you have covers, breather gaps and generally you’re more aware of it being there, aswell as isolation. Both are risky, but I do think AC is the way forward, however for the South, third rail will be there for a while yet.
That was my understanding, mainly because OHLE is 25 thousand volts and 3rd rail is less than 800 in the southeast region anyway
Well it’s less the voltage and more unpredictability & number of safety measures available to you, if you have to work in conditions where the power is still live. In terms of the actual power, you’re probably better off being hit by the AC than the DC, since you’re more likely to survive DC and to be honest it’s not something you’d want to survive (at least I wouldn’t). Basically though, yes, AC is much more lethal to be around, at least from a perspective of being authorised to be near it. If on the other hand we’re talking trespass & carelessness, then third rail is naturally going to be more dangerous.
I have a bit of knowledge when it comes to electricity. I know it takes about 20,000 volts for electricity to arc just a few mm and a hell of a lot more for it to arc several feet. I tripped once and put my hand out to brake my fall, unfortunately my hand landed on the third rail. Funnily enough there wasn't no burn marks on my hand at all, the electricity burned a hole in my arm near the elbow.
Dc is lethal. Take a car battery it's only 12 volts yet they can deliver close to 1000 amps easily. You can arc weld with a car battery. 12v ac you could probably get a few m amps from that.
I'm just pointing out that for overhead wires to give you a shock you need to be almost touching them. You can stand on the line below them and there's no danger. Apart from moving trains of course. But to put yourself In the position to be at risk of shock, an idiot climbing onto the roof of a train maybe! You need to be almost touching the wires. I would hope in all circumstances that if a railtrack worker had to go anywhere near over head wires the power would be off. 3rd rail on the other hand is on the ground. Its not hard for anyone to walk down the end of a platform onto the tracks. 9 times out of 10 if any work is to be done on a line with 3rd rail, the power has to be off. In some circumstances like I mentioned above, it only takes one wrong step to be in mortal danger. Luckily for me there wasn't any trains using the line and the power delivery to the rail was very low. I know on the London underground maintenance ain't even allowed on the track until the powers switched off.
That's the reason in the difference. Dc you only need 750v to provide the amps to move a train. Ac requires 25,000v for pretty much the same result.
