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New To Tsw And Im Disapointed.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by MrAdrianSW, Dec 28, 2017.

  1. MrAdrianSW

    MrAdrianSW Active Member

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    Railworks.. BRILLIANT!?. Amazing.. I spent far too many hours in Railworks / TrainSim well over 1000 in fact. For what it was, and when it was released (so many years ago now), Railworks and TS were amazing................
    .
    I thought that TSW would be a really cool upgrade. Bringing us features that the old TS game engine couldn't handle. After all, its build on UE4.. quite a powerhouse of a game engine when used properly. I know, I work with it......
    I was quite impressed when I started TSW, the locos looked amazing... then the novelty wore off and reality set in.... That's basically where it starts and ends.... The locos Look really nice... but that's it, they sound terrible, the environments are dull and lifeless and the world... is just meh... (the bits that are rendered properly and have their normals fixed at least)....... and no editing tools.
    "Maybe, its just the Core Game?".... I thought...
    Maybe its just the Flagship game that everyone will see First that's this bad and the DLCs are better?.
    With some excitement I watched the % counter tick down as GWR downloaded.. I tried not to lick the screen at the amazing renderings of the locos....
    I leapt into the free roam mode and...... the locos!.. My word the locos looked just as amazing as their pre-rendered images.... aaaaaaand that's where it ended.......... again.
    They looked fantastic, but they sound like a wet weekend in ryegate. Even the flagship loco of the DLC sounds so disappointing (when the sound graces us with its presence at all). I explored Paddington, and it was "meh". Nothing exciting, without the locos it just felt like I was back in TS. Then a train arrived and the full horror of this game became apparent.....
    A Class 166 came drifting into the platform and with a kind of ghostly silence came to a halt. The doors opened and a flood of very stiff looking people jammed up the doors and started entering each-other... more and more.. an entire carriage worth of people all occupying the same space and time, like some horrific singularity had opened up by the doors and sucked them into place... In fear I tried to look away, but it was happening again outside another door... and another.. and another.. the whole length of the train these poor passengers were being horrifically rammed into each-other. The humanity of the situation only compounded by my once 75fps now nose diving down into the teens as the game engine goes into full panic mode trying desperately to calculate the path finding for these poor souls, unable to find a solution and leaving them in this writhing mess of arms and legs... some of them had melted into the floor like some terrible shot from the USS Philadelphia..
    Eager to escape this horror show and possibly rescue my frame rate I ran... as fast as I could thru the empty, lifeless, silent station.. down the eerily and generically lit platform and boarded the first strangely quite loco I could. I sat in the seat at the front of the train, hoping I was far enough away from the horror that my frame rate would return to its once glorious 75... but no.. it tormented me with 13s and 15s, and reminded me of those poor souls trapped inside each-other in the silent limbo...
    Then, like some rather stiff angel in blue, the engineer arrived and magically started to move the train forward without moving any of the controls.. we glided out of the station, the cab door still open and the engines still rather silent. I huddled in the corner as the train picked up speed, the only thing reminding me of what happened was the 13s and 15s that flickered in the corner... then... more than a mile down the track it happened... The 13s and 15s vanished and were replaced by 50s and 60s... the horror was behind me I thought... but.. it was only the beginning as I started to look around me at the vast, lifeless, empty world I now occupied. Even the clouds some how seemed entirely artificial and devoid of any life.... I found solace though, if I just focus on the loco.. the clean, shiny, pretty loco everything was okay.. Everything would be alright. That beautiful loco was safety. It looked so inviting and so well detailed... Everything was okay as long as I looked at the loco.... well, as long as I also pretended I was deaf as well....
    .
    Hey TSW Management Team (I specify Management, because I know how the devs and artists feel about it), are we planning on actually Fixing this mess of a game, or is the focus going to be on spewing out more DLCs and ignoring the Flagship game and its diabolical and embarrassing faults?.
    Or perhaps, are you going to sacrifice quality in favor of console compatibility?.
    ...
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2017
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  2. Trainster

    Trainster New Member

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    I only just bought into TS with their 2018 release. I appreciate the gaming engine and resulting graphics. The game itself more than makes up for an outdated engine. I beleive I made the right choice as I have been reading many reviews like the one you have have just written. I won't be buying into TSW for quite some time. Whilst it could be said it's a case of early days, I think the issues are a little more than that.

    Graphics Quality over Game Mechanics is something we are seeing too often these days. A lot of micro transaction games are now giving in to quality graphics yet off very little in the way of sustainable game play. Yet people keep paying. For the amount of DLC ... on offer with TS ... the game has to be good'one would think.

    TSW ... narrrrr - not going to touch it for a LONG TIME yet. Not at it's current price. I do beleive I scored big time though with current deals going on TS18. Fantastic Game regardless of outdated gaming engine. Love it to bits.

    Thanks for the review. Well written.
    ~Dave.
     
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  3. MrAdrianSW

    MrAdrianSW Active Member

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    I'm still trying to figure out where TSW actually falls, and what its purpose is?.
    Its not a replacement for TS, it cant be.. Its essentially the Same thing, with mildly better graphics, less content, and more bugs..
    I was under the impression that TSW would replace TS, bring us more features and so on.... but I'm beginning to think that TSW is simply a console compatible answer to TS that's going to be.... handicapped...
    I'm not the only one that thinks that.. Perhaps the TSW management team could communicate a little on the matter?. Let people know What the future of TSW really is..... and if we can expect it to actually Be the replacement for TS that it was coined as, or if the PC hobbyists should stop investing money in it and go back to TS?.
     
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  4. Sintbert

    Sintbert Active Member

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    TSW has actually many more features than TS2018. All the move around stuff, the servicemode, the graficsengine that could handle a lot more if used and optimised correctly.

    But at the moment TSW is at the place where TS was about 8 years ago. Many bugs, many placeholders, not much content. But as TS got better over the years, so will TSW.
     
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  5. Karl456

    Karl456 Member

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    That's what I think and hope, too. And I think that we can already see the process of improvements slowly creak into action: When I think of the horrible physics in CSX and compare them to the quite well done physics in Rapid Transit, then I cannot deny a big improvement. Furthermore we could notice dozens of other small improvements which killed bugs, gave us a better performance, fixed incorrect details and so on.
    I do not want to forget about the huge amount of work, still there are lots of bugs in all Add-Ons. And the sound is a huge and negative contrast to the great graphics, when you hear the engine, you think that you play a 10 year old game and use 15 year old loudspeakers. I hope that an Unreal Engine update will quickly fix this issue and DTG will take advantage of its new possibilities. Then there are things like empty and lifeless train stations, people standing like a big monster all together in one place, the passenger information system hasn't still been finished, we're still waiting for multiplayer,...
    I could go on and make this list much longer, but I think that we all know the problems and I needn't mention them for the thousand's time. Now it is DTG's task not to hide behind new DLCs (which usually are full of bugs, too) and to hope that they will let us forget about the "old" stuff (where many things still haven't been fixed), but they have to continue their work and fix the still existing bugs in CSX, GWE and RT. Every new customer will be deterred from the huge problems like those mentioned in the first thread. You'll get tons of negative assessments on Steam and other platforms which will deter even more possible customers. So, as you can see, it is not only in our interest to see you fixing and improving TSW continually, it is especially in your own interest. Otherwise, the future of TSW won't be a bright one, there won't be new customers and even the existing ones will slowly turn away from this formerly promising project and won't buy your new DLCs as they are disappointed from the ones we've already gotten.
    So, DTG, stop a minute and think where to set your priorities: New DLCs, cost what it may, or quality and steady improvements. It will be a decision between success and failing.
     
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  6. SamYeager270

    SamYeager270 Well-Known Member

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    Sadly I think we will all have to wait a while before this happens. From what I can tell the new sound system is only in preview mode in release 18 so that means release 19 is the earliest in which it's fully supported. I believe DTG prefer to be at least one version behind the latest public release so that may well mean that we will need to wait until release 20 becomes available before TSW is upgraded to release 19.

    Since the latest release is 18 then I would hazard a guess that TSW will not have the new sound system before mid 2018. Now DTG may decide to move to the latest release or perhaps Unreal will crank out releases at a faster pace but I'm not going to hold my breath for either of those two events.
     
  7. Karl456

    Karl456 Member

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    Okay, thanks a lot for this detailed information. To be honest: I very much hope that things won't go as bad as you described them. :| But on the other hand I strongly believe that my hope will be useless and you'll be right. If we have to wait until mid 2018, that wouldn't be nice but it would be acceptable though. That would mean 6 months or 1-2 new routes with the old horrible sound system. That is annoying, but okay in some way. But if we should have to wait even longer, maybe until the first months of 2019, then I will go crazy with these sounds. One more year with 2000 HP locos that sound like my own 100 HP car? One more year without a good bass and generally with a sound that makes your ears shout "STOP THAT!"? No thanks. If we won't have a sound update until June or maybe July 2018, I will pause TSW until I finally read these long-desired update news which tell me about a sound system update.
    I can understand DTG if they do not want to use the latest release, because it might be bugged or instable and so they prefer to stay at least one version behind. But please, DTG, please: Try everything possible to optimize the present sounds for this old sound system and introduce the new one as quickly as possible. This is one of the most urgent improvements that need to be done ;).
     
  8. Jef-F

    Jef-F Active Member

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    I think the main reason is that they don't have resources to update it every time, so they'll just skip several updates in a row until it brings some really major changes or super-useful new features, like new sound system, revamped dynamic lighting and so on. DTG have already invested a good chunk of their resources into modifying UE to their specific needs, so with every update they would need to validate if all of their patches work as intended and do regression testing on everything that was released up to this point.

    Pure speculation:
    Perhaps at some point down the line they'll either understand that testing and fixing all of that content along with engine updates isn't worth it even for most useful new features and will
    1. Freeze core engine development and use it as it is in the future (as in TS, albeit for different reasons)
    or
    2. Make common game launcher engine-agnostic and ship every large DLC bundled with its own UE version for which it was developed and which it will use under the hood.

    I particularly like second method as it allows you to incorporate new tech over time and save much effort on regression testing for old content, as it will be unaffected by future updates. Downside is that you still have to devote resources to constant upgrades of your common simulation code, dev tools, and overall content base becomes quite fragmented and perhaps less manageable.
     
  9. Karl456

    Karl456 Member

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    Well, both possibilities would be okay for me under some conditions:
    The current version of UE is far away from an optimum. If DTG chooses to stop updating UE at some point, then they really have to wait until there is a version that doesn't come with dozens of compromises and limits. The version should contain everything that is required at present state and should provide even more possibilities to enable increasing the "beauty of the game" also in the future (see problem in TS: The graphics have been on one level for several years, new routes and locos came with improved features, but hardly with improved graphics, and I'm quite sure that the reason for this is that the engine doesn't allow a higher level of detail). I like this way because it would give DTG more chances to focus on debugging, optimization, adding of features etc. I also hope that the contact between us and DTG will improve as they won't need a couple of people which just work on the compatibility of the new UE version with older routes build with older UE versions. But on the other hand I am afraid that "UE version freeze" will cause a lack of improvements within a couple of years. Because now, UE 4 is new and has no problems to display wonderful graphics. But development doesn't stop and who knows, how things will look four or five years in the future? When we freeze UE within a year or two, someday we will reach the limits of the version, maybe quicker than we can imagine. I do not want to see TSW ending like TS20xx, a quite good simulator with dozens of good routes and detailed locos, but with completely outdated graphics.:|
    So you might be right that the second suggestion is the one to prefer. A good compromise would be that DTG only implements and updates to these UE versions that are really useful for TSW and bring major improvements with it, all other versions may be skipped. So you could prevent a situation where almost every DLC has its own UE version and the whole system will be messed up and gets out of control. Nonetheless, even this solution has its negative aspects as you still have people which permanently need to implement new UE versions and optimize them for TSW. But I would accept that if it avoids that TSW goes the same way like TS20xx.
    But furthermore, I am not sure whether different UE versions in different DLCs united in one game affect the stability of the game or if they could trigger lots of crashes. But updating ALL content to the newest UE version might be okay at the moment, but not when we got 10 or more routes, the work being necessary to enable implementing the new version to all routes would be immense and would cost more and more time as the number of DLCs rises over the time.
    All in all we have to see that there is no perfect solution for us,... And in the end it is DTG's own decision how they manage their game. But at the current status an UE update is not avoidable since the present version is not acceptable to be a permanent game engine.
     
  10. sumitsingh

    sumitsingh Member

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    As UE4 will grow this game will also.

    Judging this game too early is not good.
     
  11. DANNYBOY2487

    DANNYBOY2487 Active Member

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    it's only early days for TSW it's One years old almost editor tools are coming
     
  12. Corvan

    Corvan Well-Known Member

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    Personally I feel that TSW should have been released as early access, in the same manner as FSW. That would've given them the cover to make mistakes and get to grips with UE4. I don't know why they didn't go down that route and unfortunately they've dug a little hole for themselves as a result.

    However, things will get better as time goes on and hopefully any improvement goings forward will be retrofitted to the existing routes and locomotives. I think the release of an editor will bolster the game quite a bit once interesting scenarios start appearing on Steam. We'll probably see a lot more use of the coal mines on CSX: HH and the aggregate facilities on GWR for example.
     
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  13. Ceponatia

    Ceponatia New Member

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    I'm still early in the CSX game and wondering... is there anything to actually DO besides constantly toggle the throttle to make sure you're going the right speed?
     
  14. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    That is how it is with American freight trains.
     

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